Somaliland signs with Glover Park Group

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^^^I have said it before there should be a UN supervised referendum in Somaliland on independence village for village and those who want to leave that failed union should be given the chance to do that and those who want to stay with the koonfurians should be allowed i think that is the best solution for the eastern sool and eastern sanaag regions.Now would you accept that i would and i think i can sell that to the people of Somaliland.

[Homunculus]

Xaaji Xunjuf is a better person than I expected, kudos. I wish other Somlilanders shared your views but unfortunately the majority seem to be of the bloodthirsty type.

[OdaySomali]

Xaaji Xunjuf;930671 wrote:

^^ Every one fights for his dreams and his country no one wants to be ruled or be a second class citizens we have seen what a union with Somalia did to

That is a gross simplification of the situation. Would you rather work together for our common goals with fellow Somalis? Or that we all be satellite states of Ethiopia, Kenya and other countries that divide us, put us against eachother and then push us around and control us?

 

Somalis from the regions that make up Somaliland of course have a right to be first class citizens and that is why all Somalis must fight and strive to make our country - and the Somali peninsula, in good tim - a fair and politically stable place. The way to do this is not to break up in a 100's little states with tiny populations, no viable economies and such a small consuming and productive markets as to render us politically and economically insignificant. The way to do this is by creating systems and institutions hat work and by creating and promoting a culture of common interests, equality, fairness and accountable government with checks and balances in place. The way to do this is by decentralising power and creating local and regional governments that are empowered.

 

Very little actual benefit will be derived for Somalis in the North from Somaliland being recognised. Recognition is not in the interests of Somalis, whether Somalilanders or fellow Somalis in the South, for many reasons. Focussing on recognition rather than our other problems is misguided.

 

Xaaji Xunjuf;930671 wrote:

My friend people have done it before the Kurds are still fighting i see Somaliland chances of becoming a full fledged nation as something that can happen in the near future Somalia is not a regional power that can oppress Somaliland like turkey is doing with the kurds or china is doing with the people of Taiwan .

We are all Somalis. It has nothing to do with what "Somalia" may or may not do. It has everything to do with what is genuinely in the interests of all Somalis, including the Somalis of Somaliland. It is not in the interests of Somaliland to become independent. if you actually sit down and thinka about it the benefits of Somaliland being recognised are only marginal and although some quick gains will be relaised in the short term, these quick gains will quickly run out.

 

The world is globalised. Countries are pulling together in economic blocs. There is increasing competition for natural resources, land, water, minerals and larger countries are more than willing to push around, pressurise or invade smaller countries where it is in their interests to do so. Landlocked Ethiopia with 90 million people is right next to the Somali republic. What do you think will happen if we split our already Small country into 10 smaller "countries" with tiny populations of 2 million that are all hostile to eachother and favourable to Ethiopia? Will we suddenly learn to work together only once Ethiopia has [formally] absorbed our litte new countries? C'mon surely you can see the obvious?

 

The real benefit is in a political solution between all the Somalis - and Somaliland does not have to stop 'existing' - whereby we can work together for our common interests. Our common interests are far greater and outweigh any regional interests that there may be. Somalis in the north can benefit from, invest in and use the produce from the fertile regions from the South rather than importing them from Ethiopia (as is currently the case). Companies founded in the north can extend to and invest in the South of the country. Together we can have a greater military that will better protect all Somalis better. Together our country will be bigger, our population will be bigger, economy will be bigger, our consumer base will be bigger, our productive capabilities will be bigger and we can be significant in the world and stand our corner without being pushed around.

[OdaySomali]

Jacpher;930679 wrote:

However, since you talked about Somaliland being oppressed into second class citizen and refused of self determination, thus leaving the union, isn't Somaliland itself doing so to other communities that share border with them? You can't accuse Somalia of oppressing you and on your way out, do the same thing you accuse of others. In other words, you claim to have been bullied historically, now you're doing the bullying.

Jacpher waxba ha kala soocsoocin Somaalida. It is not about who is oppressed or who is a second class citizens. This is far bigger than clans. We are all 3rd world citizens, from the most impoverished depts of the most impoverished places on earth. We are all oppressed by the ignorance of our wayward ways. This is a story of self-serving politicians who are blinded by hunger for power and personal ambition, misguiding the populace just so that those very politicans can secure themselves seats of power.

[OdaySomali]

Xaaji Xunjuf;930680 wrote:

^^^I have said it before there should be a UN supervised referendum in Somaliland on independence village for village and those who want to leave that failed union should be given the chance to do that and those who want to stay with the koonfurians should be allowed i think that is the best solution for the eastern sool and eastern sanaag regions.Now would you accept that i would and i think i can sell that to the people of Somaliland.

This is just rediculous! So where does this end? Why not let every village be an independent countr if that is what they so wish? When we have disagreements the solution is not to run away and turn away from eachother just so that a "politician" on the payroll of Ethiopia can call himself a "president" of a few villages and then live in relative luxury off the taxes he collects from old women and children in those villages and regions whilst they starve and see no benefit. The real benefit is in a political solution between all the Somalis of an effective, decentralised, accountantable and democratic government.

 

Do you people not see that we are facing an existential threat here? Creating further divisins will be the last nail in the coffin!

[OdaySomali]

Cabdulaahi Suldaan Timacadde waa kii yidhi:

 

Dunidii ka habsaanay oo

Inagaa ugu dambeyna oo

Dundumaan dhaqdhaqaaqin ee

Dhamanteen dhergi weyney ee

Isu dhiibnay dugaag ee

Soomaaloo kala daadsan

Hadaynaan isu duubin

Durki mayno xadaawe

Cidna daafici mayno.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

First of all i do not believe Somalis were destined to be together we were never one country never shared a country before the failed union in 1960 i believe the Somali speaking people do not even know each other that well. Also this threat that Ethiopia and Kenya that there is a conspiracy against Somalis is also out of the question. I also consider that the Somali identity it self is a lose cultural identity with no strong foundations and it surely should not be based on nationalism. Now you act that if Somalia has one of the best economies in Africa and that Somaliland desperately should stay with Somalia because they will gain. Somaliland is better of alone with a small population it can equally distribute the wealth of the country it has resources and it should invest in its own people. Population will increase in the next coming years Somalilanders should invest in their own people. Also recognition will help Somaliland modernize the country maybe its not in the interests of the koonfurians because they want to keep Somaliland unrecognized. But it will help Somalilanders politically diplomatically and economically. Somalilanders are one of the most creative entrepreneurial people in Africa they can easily transform their country if it has the same support the koonfurians got from the international community. Somaliland has shown that it works they have created viable institutions and democracy and good governance they just need to modernize their ports and Milk the Ethiopians since they are land locked and need SL port services. It already started on small scale industrialization of the country imagine if it has enough capital to invest in the country imagine how SL economy can grow. Just let me ask you one question do you think Somaliland would have been more developed if it stayed separate in 1960?

[Homunculus]

People should stop arguing about secession with Somalilanders, you can't convince them or change their minds, just talk about real developments and actual news and watch them blubber with rage. J/K

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

OdaySomali;930701 wrote:

This is just rediculous! So where does this end? Why not let every village be an independent countr if that is what they so wish? When we have disagreements the solution is not to run away and turn away from eachother just so that a "politician" on the payroll of Ethiopia can call himself a "president" of a few villages and then live in relative luxury off the taxes he collects from old women and children in those villages and regions whilst they starve and see no benefit. The real benefit is in a political solution between all the Somalis of an effective, decentralised, accountantable and democratic government.

 

Do you people not see that we are facing an existential threat here? Creating further divisins will be the last nail in the coffin!

 

Why are you keep talking about Ethiopians they are not our problems these problems were caused by Koonfurians and Somalilanders who cant agree on sharing a country. I say that a say that as a solution Oday Somali why dont you talk about the Xabashi troops your goverment uses in bay bakool hiiraan gedo. Because people of Somaliland want independence now if jacpher thinks there are people who want the union i want every one to cast his vote in Somaliland whether he wants to stay with in Somaliland or with the Koonfurians its fair.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

OdaySomali;930710 wrote:

You should take that to the Koonfurians and their 4.5 they need it

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Back to the topic are there other plans with other lobbyist groups for Somaliland i think this was a step in the right direction.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Alpha Blondy;930628 wrote:

i've been suggesting this for over 10 years now. with the Glover Park Group at the helm, and Somalilanders dictating the direction, our hopes and aspirations could finally be realised. i just wish that incompetent wasiir ''baarjaj'' doesn't hijack this, too.

 

the independent diplomat group has presence in SL, ee sida uula socoda.

Dr bidaar has his shortcomings but when it comes to foreign policy all Somalilanders should support it. This was a good step in the right direction also there should be more lobby offices in African capitals. Somalilanders should put their nation before anything else Alpha freedom has a price but if Somalilanders pay it together than victory will be theirs.

[OdaySomali]

Xaaji Xunjuf;930709 wrote:

First of all i do not believe Somalis were destined to be together

we were never one country never shared a country before the failed union in 1960 i believe the Somali speaking people do not even know each other that well

Somalis know eachother well enough, after all we do speak one language, share a religion, share an ethnicity and a culture that is in many ways the same notwithstanding the unsertandable regional differences and there are regional differences in all countries. And if we do not know eachother well, we will get to know eachother well. I am talking about the Somalis in the Somalis republic, who are now, this very moment and have been in recent history in one single country that is internationally recognised, can be found on all maps of the world and is a member of the United Nations of the world. That country is the Somali Republic.

 

Somalis may not have shared a country before 1960 and we may not have a had a modern state but this is not a prerequisite to living in a country together, peacefully and working together to achieve common aims.

 

The reason why the Somali goverment failed was because it was badly structured and managed. The last Somali government failed because it was autocrative, oppresive, practiced nepotism and it used force against its own people. there was a concentration of power and there were no independently functioning national institutions which meant that when the cgovernment was overthrown the country came to a standstill and there was a lack of governance or public service provision. This is not something that is set in stone or cement, this is something that can be changed. The political structures can be changed to make government more decentralised, more effective,more accountable and more democratic. Institutions can be built and they can be made independent from government and there can be checks in place to make sure that they too are effective and accountable.

 

The modern state is historically speaking a fairly recent development in many parts of the world, the Somali republic included. But if you say that Somalis cannot share a country then I say that Somalis in the north cannot share a country either. If you say that Somalis in the north (so called Somalilanders of which I am one) can share a country then i say that all Somalis can share a country. It is a matter of how and not if. It is question of how can we best share our country and work together and not can we share a county.

 

 

Xaaji Xunjuf;930709 wrote:

Also this threat that Ethiopia and Kenya that there is a conspiracy against Somalis is also out of the question.

I will respond in a seperate post. That is an extremely naive statement. you must be oblivious to reality.

 

Xaaji Xunjuf;930709 wrote:

I also consider that the Somali identity it self is a lose cultural identity with no strong foundations and it surely should not be based on nationalism.

Xaaji Xunjuf;930709 wrote:

Now you act that if Somalia has one of the best economies in Africa

and that Somaliland desperately should stay with Somalia because they will gain. Somaliland is better of alone with a small population it can equally distribute the wealth of the country it has resources and it should invest in its own people. Population will increase in the next coming years Somalilanders should invest in their own people.

I did not say that, nor did I insinuate that. Economically we will be better off if Somalis stick together and this is for countless reasons. Our sub-economies complement eachother. Automatically if we remain together we will have:

 

- a bigger country with a bigger population, a greater GDP and the government has a greater tax-base

 

- both the private sector and the public sector can realise economic of scale

 

- we will have a bigger domestic market as there are more consumersand a greater pool of labour

 

- This in turn means we can attract more investment

 

- We will also have greater leverage in political and economic terms

 

- All of the above means we can have a larger military and out security and that we can better defend oout political and eocnomic interests

 

- Our land and resources will still be plenty as we will only be a populaiton of 10m for a country of 600 miles quared, with 3,300KM coast and plenty of resources. We cans till work hard to equally distribute wealth.

 

There are many more benefits we can achieve.

 

Xaaji Xunjuf;930709 wrote:

Also recognition will help Somaliland modernize the country maybe its not in the interests of the koonfurians because they want to keep Somaliland unrecognized. But it will help Somalilanders politically diplomatically and economicallySomalilanders are one of the most creative entrepreneurial people in Africa they can easily transform their country if it has the same support the koonfurians got from the international community. Somaliland has shown that it works they have created viable institutions and democracy and good governance they just need to modernize their ports and Milk the Ethiopians since they are land locked and need SL port services. It already started on small scale industrialization of the country imagine if it has enough capital to invest in the country imagine how SL economy can grow. Just let me ask you one question do you think Somaliland would have been more developed if it stayed separate in 1960?

The average person from Southern regions of the SOmali republic is the same as the average person from the northern region (Somaliland) and I have seen it with my own eyes. All Somali people regardless of where they are are extremely poor, have no basic services like health, education and have usually no food on the table. This is also the case in Somaliland. What is truly in the interests of Somali people is to have better lives, for their children to have access to school and healcare, to be able to feed and clothe themselves, to have jobs and dignity. To live in peace both for themselves and with their neigbours. To live and enjoy their life. Somalis are all the same. Dividing Somalis, creating futher hostilities and omplications will not be beneficial for anyone. Our fates are interdepedent and interlinked. Somaliland has not been recognised for the past 22 years and Somalis from the South have been flocking to the northern regions. When Somalis in the South are at peace that is also in the interest of Somalilanders as our fates are intertwined. When Somaliland is safe and peaceful that is in the interests of Somalis in the central and souther regions. When there is war in any part of the Somali peninsula thta automatically affects all other parts.

 

You have to understand that no single part of the Somali peninsula or Somali people can prosper and do well without the other. Either we work together for our common interests or we all drag eachother down.

 

Somaliland will relise only small marginal benefits economically. Because Somaliland will be a tiny impoverished, corrupt, desert country with bad governancel, no laws, no institutions, no infrastructure and incidentally happens to be next to the war ravaged Somali republic, the tiny Djibouti and autocratically governmened underdeveloped Ethiopia, dont expect Somaliland to suddenly become a developed country. Because the population is so small and the domestic consumer and labour markets are so small, few companies will see any benefit to invest a lot of money in a tiny country. There is no agricultural land and water is scarce and expensive to extract. Even is oil is found this will still not lead to genuine development because there are no skilled people, there is no infrastructure, there are no laws, no institutions and no effective government it will only lead to corruption and mismanagement.

 

There benefits you talk about are not specific to independence. They would be realised if we are united. Somali people are all the same. Seeking independence and recognition is not a panacea to the problems all Somalis share. Bad governance and weak institutions can be overcome to make both more democratic, effective and accountable.

 

We are better united than divided.

We are better united than divided.

We are better united than divided.

[The Sage]

Considering the importance of lobbying and advocacy in the realm of international affairs, having the services of a group such as this would be an advisable investment for the Somaliland government.

At $22,000/month, it would amount to $264,000/year which is only 0.15% of SL's $174,000,000 USD budget. A good investment for advancing the interests of Somaliland, increasing it's visibility, and engaging with key influential nations.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Somalis know eachother well enough, after all we do speak one language, share a religion, share an ethnicity and a culture that is in many ways the same notwithstanding the unsertandable regional differences and there are regional differences in all countries. And if we do not know eachother well, we will get to know eachother well. I am talking about the Somalis in the Somalis republic, who are now, this very moment and have been in recent history in one single country that is internationally recognised, can be found on all maps of the world and is a member of the United Nations of the world. That country is the Somali Republic

.

 

Not true Somalilanders have never lived in Somalia before 1960 we got to know each other in 1960 politically socially nor did Somalilanders and the Koonfurians share a state or the same history in that sense. We never shared the same political culture nor the same tradition and cultural its self is a wider phenomena. We wont get to know each other because since 1991 we unintentionally developed separate political and national identities. Whether the former Somali republic is recognized as one nation or not is irrelevant of how Somalis know each other surely the UN will not bring them closer to each other.

 

 

Somalis may not have shared a country before 1960 and we may not have a had a modern state but this is not a prerequisite to living in a country together, peacefully and working together to achieve common aims.

i agree but because it never happened before and because it was a short lived experiment there are several aspirations working together can happen but on equal terms and respecting each others sovereignty.

 

 

The reason why the Somali goverment failed was because it was badly structured and managed. The last Somali government failed because it was autocrative, oppresive, practiced nepotism and it used force against its own people. there was a concentration of power and there were no independently functioning national institutions which meant that when the cgovernment was overthrown the country came to a standstill and there was a lack of governance or public service provision. This is not something that is set in stone or cement, this is something that can be changed. The political structures can be changed to make government more decentralised, more effective,more accountable and more democratic. Institutions can be built and they can be made independent from government and there can be checks in place to make sure that they too are effective and accountable.

You are right on that one that the Kacaan goverment and the governments before the kacaan were corrupt but it also because the people who controlled those goverments were highly corrupt. The political structures can be changed but you cannot change Koonfurian Politicians the divisions between them and the Mafia culture is very much present in Somalia. The state resources will always be some how used by a community against the other. Maybe to lesser extend as it was before but it will happen.

 

 

The modern state is historically speaking a fairly recent development in many parts of the world, the Somali republic included. But if you say that Somalis cannot share a country then I say that Somalis in the north cannot share a country either. If you say that Somalis in the north (so called Somalilanders of which I am one) can share a country then i say that all Somalis can share a country. It is a matter of how and not if. It is question of how can we best share our country and work together and not can we share a county.

And now you claim a Somalilander it gets funnier , but the thing is Somalilanders have shown they can share a country they have shown they can built a nation from scratch they have shown they can elect their leaders by casting their votes. They have shown what it is to have a unity. Somalis in Djibouti do not wish to share a country with Somalia , thats another example. The Somalis in Kenya are happy with their situation in kenya no one is calling for this ill unity only the folks of the south.

 

Not true if Somaliland has oil and other resources and have better business incentives , it will be no use to share that wealth with Somalia when it can invest in their own country and people that will be much more profitable for Somalilanders and and higher overall GDP can be achieved.

 

Having political and economic leverage when it comes to European countries and their market laws and prices for the export products of our countries can be played through a regional cooperation including several countries forming blocks and forging closer trade unions Countries like Djibouti Ethiopia Somalia Eritrea Somaliland Kenya can all work together when it comes to that.

 

As for having a huge army i don't see why that is very necessary at the moment, Somaliland is not going at war with any one.

 

Our fates are interdepedent and interlinked. Somaliland has not been recognised for the past 22 years and Somalis from the South have been flocking to the northern regions. When Somalis in the South are at peace that is also in the interest of Somalilanders as our fates are intertwined.

Koonfurians have been flocking into Kenya to why is that a special case, i believe Somaliland if it was recognized the past 22 years it would have been far more developed than its now. Somalia in peace is also in the interests of Somaliland since Somalia is a neighbor Somaliland wishes to see a peaceful Somalia.

 

 

Somaliland will relise only small marginal benefits economically. Because Somaliland will be a tiny impoverished, corrupt, desert country with bad governancel, no laws, no institutions, no infrastructure and incidentally happens to be next to the war ravaged Somali republic,

And Somalia will have great infrastructure and have the best economy in Africa and will be a self reliant nation and will not be corrupt. Now i cannot take you really serious when it comes to that Somaliland has shown that it is possible to rebuild a nation ofcourse its still poor and there is huge unemployment but that all can be changed if Somalilanders work hard for their country and its heading the right direction for now. There you wrong again Somalilanders are very creative and very skillful i think that is one of the greatest things they have as people the country is not small. It doesn't need massive foreign investment it just needs to create a home grown economy based on industry in different sectors. Somaliland just needs to start an innovation based economy consisting of technology entrepreneurship and industry of different viaraties as they will find a way to create a higher productivity among its own people they will continue to invest in their own people. They have the people its people are highly educated they also have a full functioning state in place. It doesn't need Somalia a failed state to have a better Somaliland it doesn't any country in the world it has shown that. But there is no prescient in all of this and it needs to be done, through a process and i am sure Somalilanders will get there, because they are determined.