Is Somali unity futile?

[D.O.C]

It doesn't matter whether people have same religion. looks or language, if animosity comes between them, it is time to move on for the sake of not creating more hatred towards one an other, and that is what exactly is going on in somalia.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Actually one would say that same religion and same languge and ethnic back ground would make sure Unity could have been maintaned at all cost but this is not the case when it comes to Somalis. Animosity comes because of distrust it comes because we dont like the state being used by others to opress others. Also Somalis do not know each other they way they thought they knew each other. Different ethnicities can share a country look at Ethiopia kenya Nigeria Congo,you just have to have some good agreements.

[Tallaabo]

Haatu;926546 wrote:

lol Xaaji taas ha inoo dambeyso

 

I've come a long way in my view of Somali unity. Before I used to believe in a strong central state as the sole 'real' government of the land but not anymore. That view is impractical, only existed for a short while with drastic results and unnatural to the Somali whose pure existence is based on his autonomy and independence cemented by his refusal to be dictated to by any man. In other words, we have been since time imemoral very independent people that dislike interference. The position I now hold is that I am willing to share a country, a flag, an economy, an army, an education system (broadly) and a faraway government in Xamar with limited powers. Then let every region form a regional council to deal with their own affairs like we're currently doing in Kenya (Garissa county/region has it's own governor and assembly, same with Wajir and Mandhera counties).

 

In essence it's a very decentralised form of government where the most power is in the local authority's hands. I'm sure even fellow secessionists will agree to this.

I would love to see all Somalis united in peace and justice one day, but right now I can not trust Xamar to look after my garbage let alone my affairs saaxiib.

[QansaxMeygaag]

^

Xaaji you keep sayin "the state is an alien concept to Somalis" - of course it is, as it is to many many other peoples in the world. There was hardly any concept of the nation-state before European colonization in many countries in Africa and Asia.

 

Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, etc are as much artificial as any other "modern" nation-state.

 

What is undeniable is that the Somali identity is not artificial. When Richard Burton first set foot in Seylac in the 1840s as the first European to do so he clearly says he met "Somalis" just like out grandfathers in all the Somali regions were and are Somalis. The Izaks might have told him they were Habar Eunice and Habar Lover and Habar this and that, but there was no doubt as to their Somaliness.

 

Am a bit confused by your arguments bro...You can argue that we are one nation, but don't have to have one state - we can have many states, fair enough.

 

But make no mistake - the Somali NATION IS NOT A FIGMENT OF ANYONE"S IMAGINATION. It existed and shall continue to exist just like the Jews were scattered thru the 4 corners of the world, so are we - but we ARE a Somali NATION goddammit!!!

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Qansax there is a Somali cultural bond, existed before everything , but there was never a Somali national bond reason why the state the Somali state is a very alien concept. Also the other problem was we tried to recreate a Somali state based on the ethnicity of the Somalis in the entire horn of Africa, this was also something that the colonialists haven't had a say in. But its something we came up with our own. If Somalia was strictly based for Somalia and they tried to find solution with in the context of their own history and own people instead of trying to bring in other Somalis from Somali galbeed Somaliland NFD. i think Somalia would have been a success, i believe there would have never been a civil war and never a state collapse. Imagine not having to fight the shifta wars the Somali galbeed wars 1964 1977. the SNM wars. All of that could have been avoided if it was strictly for Somalia just like all the other normal African nations. Who shared the same history and the same sort of nationalism. Somalia's form of Nationalism ruined Somalia. Because the Kenyans based their state on the 43 different tribes all colonized by the British, so the mechanism and statehood is based on those particular people and not other Africans whom they share ethnicity with. At the beginning we went a different direction , we tried to create something we never had something which never existed.

[Haatu]

Tallaabo;926627 wrote:

I would love to see all Somalis united in peace and justice one day, but right now I can not trust Xamar to look after my garbage let alone my affairs saaxiib.

And I don't trust reer Mandera to rule my affairs, hence the decentralised system. Don't let cuqdad fog your vision. The only things that'll probably change for your region in this sytem is the flag, other minor things and hopefully that terrible name that you can't pronounce.

 

Xaaji, there was no Somali State, but their was a Somali Nation that shared somalinimo. Nationhood =/= politics. It can be linguistic, ethnic and cultural.

 

I'm waiting for the day you tell us you're not Somali.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Haatu i am more Somali than any of you i know the exact meaning of Somali and what it stands for many of the farodhoqayaals have no clue they just heard the word Somali. Ereyga Somali 123 tudhuc oo gabay baan ka tirin kara. ii sheeg ninka taa samayn kara.

 

Now lets go back to Somalinimo we still have no clear definition what Somalinimo is we know Somali , but not Somalinimo , aniga awoowgay Suldaanka toga herer yaalay, he was not just a Somali , because he allowed his kingdom inu mid baydhabo joogo inu wax ku yeesho. Suldaankayagu ama awoowgay waligay ma arkin dadkaas meel ay joogaan iyo masajid ay ka eedamayaan xita. We were not a nation, were Somali tribes masses nomads and farodhoqayaals who spoke the Somali language but we didn't share a nation the first time we shared a nation was in 1960.

[Haatu]

Xaaji Xunjuf;926869 wrote:

Haatu i am more Somali than any of you i know the exact meaning of Somali and what it stands for many of the farodhoqayaals have no clue they just heard the word Somali. Ereyga Somali 123 tudhuc oo gabay baan ka tirin kara. ii sheeg ninka taa samayn kara.

 

Now lets go back to Somalinimo we still have no clear definition what Somalinimo is we know Somali , but not Somalinimo , aniga awoowgay Suldaanka toga herer yaalay, he was not just a Somali , because he allowed his kingdom inu mid baydhabo joogo inu wax ku yeesho. Suldaankayagu ama awoowgay waligay ma arkin dadkaas meel ay joogaan iyo masajid ay ka eedamayaan xita. We were not a nation, were Somali tribes masses nomads and farodhoqayaals who spoke the Somali language but we didn't share a nation the first time we shared a nation was in 1960.

Wrong. The Somali nation was the Somali people and the lands they inhabited whether or not they were/are politically united or not. Just like you had the German nation before the 20th Century. They were in many different countries yet they were still Germans and collectively formed the German nation.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

The Germans had a structured goverment for centuries we didn't thus that made them a nation they had the whole mechanism of German nationalism the Somalis didn't Carolingian dynasty where Louis the German ruled in the 9th century even though there was no Germany , he was a german in that dynasty and controlled parts of what is today Germany and eastern France after the fall of the roman empire the German tribes were fighting for their own place and there were many royals who found themselves in different dynasties.And than we had conrad the 3rd who is a descendant of lous the german on his maternal side who united more german tribes under the Hohenstaufen kingdom actually from today's austria. But the germans their rivals the french were more organized than them and didn't allow them to have a kingdom of german inhabbitants. Something Somalis never had we didn't had a rival who stopped us from being a state before 1960 remove the 70 year Colonialism before that why didn't we had a structured state of governance why weren't we a nation. Every one was living in his own little turf and was a Somali on his own terms. We never felt that we were a nation or were one nation. That happened in the 1930s and 1940s, and Somali nationalism wasn't even based on one countries but 5 separate parts , the question i ask is why didn't we organize our selves as Somalis before 1884? The Germans did and they formed a state a well governed state in the late 17 century led by Germans and they governed Germans with German laws.

[Haatu]

Because we were nomads who had no need for governments whereas these people are settled people that need rule of law to bring order to their lives. Also, we had many small sultanates and if things were allowed to go naturally, eventually one sultanate would gain power over the others through military force or otherwise.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Not true no sultanate was above the other or could defeat the other, just as today no one still won the civil war we had no mechanism or political culture based on equal Somali nationhood. We started promoting Pan Somalism in 1930s thats yesterday. Never before that there was never one Somali tribe who were the aristocrats of the Somali people. The state it self is an alien concept according to Somalis we rather have not a goverment specially the Koonfurians. We view the state as something stands in our way but sometimes we use it to dominate other tribes and when the tables are turned we move further apart.

[Haatu]

I doubt that. I'm pretty sure as the country started to modernise the sultanate that had the most natural resources would've started to dominate. Whoever has the resources has the cash, and whoever has the cash has the power.

[Tallaabo]

Haatu;926867 wrote:

And I don't trust reer Mandera to rule my affairs, hence the decentralised system. Don't let cuqdad fog your vision. The only things that'll probably change for your region in this sytem is the flag, other minor things and hopefully that terrible name that you can't pronounce.

 

Xaaji, there was no Somali State, but their was a Somali Nation that shared somalinimo. Nationhood =/= politics. It can be linguistic, ethnic and cultural.

 

I'm waiting for the day you tell us you're not Somali.

Waar I said I won't trust Koonfuria to look after my rubbish and you are telling me to change my flag and name!!

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Haatu;926884 wrote:

I doubt that. I'm pretty sure as the country started to modernise the sultanate that had the most natural resources would've started to dominate. Whoever has the resources has the cash, and whoever has the cash has the power.

I dont think so it would just like something what we have today, no clear winner. it was not possible for the maguartania sultans to take over the southern Somalis. Eventhough they tried to use Sicid barqash and rifles from oman. But still Sharmarke ali salih bashe allied to the turks of Somaliland was more successful he dominated the entire eastern awdal region some what 50 years before British came to our shores. But he could not dominate the jesus tribes down south nor the hararis who had their separate emir. Much of the Gulady sultanate was divided because of sub clanish politics with in the center eastern Somaliland. Garaad wiilwaal and his men were very comfortable in jigjiga and were only busy harassing the jaarso and smaller oromo clans. Actually dominating each other would have created more conflicts, thats why till the day of today we still have no clear winner of the civil war, and 4.5 is used as a compromise.