300 students, involving Somalis and AA's, start food fight/race riot in high school, 4 hospitalized

[Haatu]

Alpha Blondy;932637 wrote:

inaar, if you think your case was bad....waar, anigu waxan ahaa

the rose that grew from concrete

. the odds were stacked against Al. it was divine intervention, there's no other way to explain my rise...........

You did after all live in Camden so the odds were most definitely stacked against you

[Alpha Blondy]

Haatu;932639 wrote:

You did after all live in Camden so the odds were most definitely stacked against you

even worst. tottenham, where survival rates beyond 14 years is comparable to many third-world nations, for lack of a better term. teenage morality rates are still high among ethnic youth and particularly so among Somali Males.....from what i hear these days.

[Chimera]

People are seriously out-ghetto-ing each other huh? LOL

 

Blackflash;932340 wrote:

That's wishful thinking. A large segment with the young Somali male population are content with a life of loitering and bullet consumption. The 40% drop out rate for Somalis in Toronto should be evidence enough.

I don't have time for this simplistic view of the Somali community in Toronto, I understand that you want to feel unique and special because your not like the "other Somali guys", but the truth is when you give these guys a proper mentor, a dream and a roadmap to achieve that goal, their grades rise as a result. Four Somali men from your neck of the wood are already responsible for saving 300 Somali guys from failing in school:

 

The program has carried on quietly for five years, keeping a low profile; but its results have been miraculous. None of the 300-odd teens who participated in the program have dropped out of school. Their grades have gone from low C’s and D’s to high B’s and, in some cases, A’s. And many have gone on to college and university.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2011/01/15/lowprofile_mentoring_program_gets_results.html

 

Also, dropping out doesn't equal a life of crime, there are plenty of Somali male entrepreneurs that lack your shiny qualifications but who are major pillars of our communities. Like Wadani highlighted, keep things in persepective.

[GaraadMon]

I'm in no way unique, this entire debate is in regards to why the Somali community is so 'special'. I drive past the detention facility on Disco Rd every day and have to witness daily visits by Somali parents because many of their drop out children are as you say 'entrepreneurs' of sorts, who decided to become 'major pillars in our communities.'

 

I don't equate high school diplomas or a post secondary education with success, but the levels of crime among Somalis is a clear sign of failure and the negative correlation between high school graduation and criminality reported in numerous studies might serve as useful indicator of where we are.

[Chimera]

Blackflash;932679 wrote:

I'm in no way unique, this entire debate is in regards to why the Somali community is so 'special'. I drive past the detention facility on Disco Rd every day and have to witness daily visits by Somali parents because many of their drop out children are as you say 'entrepreneurs' of sorts, who decided to become 'major pillars in our communities.'

 

I don't equate high school diplomas or a post secondary education with success, but the levels of crime among Somalis is clear sign of failure.

Ah, get off your high horse brother, your posts reek of a self-constructed superiority complex with regards to your own community. This is the type of nonsense I used to counter on supremacists forums until I realised I was dealing with brick walls. The levels of crime vis-a-vi Somalis is proportionate to their population, income and the neighbourhoods they reside. You make it seem like the only gangs in Canada are Somali ones. If you want to brush a community with a population of between 80 to 100 thousand through your daily visits at some correctional facility, then by all means go ahead, but don't mind me chuckling when you do lol.

 

What is a clear sign of failure, is the lack of governmental gentrification of the neighbourhoods Somali families were dumped in, what is a clear sign of failure is the lack of Somali police officers in Canada, what is a clear sign of failure is that initiatives such as the one in the article I posted are few and far in between, because the brothers who did make it past 21 in Toronto go on with their own lives or prefer to gloat on the net about surviving 'dee ghetto' instead of emulating a winning formula.

[xabad]

Chimera;932685 wrote:

What is a clear sign of failure, is the lack of governmental gentrification of the neighbourhoods Somali families were dumped in, what is a clear sign of failure is the lack of Somali police officers in Canada, what is a clear sign of failure is that initiatives such as the one in the article I posted are few and far in between, because the brothers who did make it past 21 in Toronto go on with their own lives or prefer to gloat on the net about surviving 'dee ghetto' instead of emulating a winning formula.

Typical liberal leftist tripe. i guess personal responsibility is not part of the vocabulary for you guys, huh!

[Chimera]

xabad;932706 wrote:

Typical liberal leftist tripe. i guess personal responsibility is not part of the vocabulary for you guys, huh!

I don't adhere to labels, my views can differ on various issues, but I guess its a nice red-herring from the issue at hand. It doesn't surprise me that the characters who generalize the Somali communities in a negative fashion the most, NEVER provide solutions. This is a societal issue, just like driving a car is a societal issue, we as a society can't just let 10 and 12 year olds behind the wheel and tell them "be responsible". Their not mature enough to counter the hazards and dangers of the road, and similarly those young school boys your demonizing, without the proper parental guidance, school support and after-school activities aren't mature enough to resist the temptations of crime and quick profit that comes with it. The streets of those dangerous neighbourhoods are just as a hazardous, and they were already crime-ridden before the Somalis came, Which is why a European group like the Portuguese has a higher drop-out rate than Somalis, and why an Asian group like the Vietnamese are struggling just as much with education and crime,

 

The ones that claim they survived the ghettos without falling into those pitfalls 100% sure had someone important in their life that guided them into becoming a productive member of society.

[Maarodi]

Chimera point is solid. I can even add my personal story of how my generation of students fared in the system(s). Overall the cases are parallel.

 

The game is rigged from the get-go. Immigrant families are placed in ghettos (low income housing), the parents don't know English so they can't keep up with their child's education or they work different shifts that leave the kids to their own devises or sometimes don't even bother, the kid starts hanging out with the wrong crowds, they're placed in grades based on their age and not capabilities which leads to the kid having to go through many obstacles just to get on the same level as his/her peers and most of them either get demoralized and continue to get "socially promoted" instead of getting the help they need, eventually they quit school. The ones that pass the hurdle of social promotion are still in the ghetto where they get bullied for "being white/oreo" just as African-Americans who do well in the ghettos are. By this time the ones that made it are fewer than those who got jammed up by that school/environmental system and swallowed up by the correctional system. Once they set foot in that latter one it's hard to get back on track and unfortunately it becomes a revolving door.

 

What makes us different from other immigrant communities is the fact that they have strong community ties (churches). It seems their community is more unified than the Somalis. They go to the clubs together as well as the church. This is also reflected in the tight knit group they form in schools whereas Somalis generally tend to stay in their gender segregated cliques. For some reason other groups are more unified than we are.

 

This is just my general observation but there's more that needs to be said and I'm glad you guys are talking about it.

 

xabad wrote:

Typical liberal leftist tripe. i guess personal responsibility is not part of the vocabulary for you guys, huh!

We need to take personal responsibility into account as well but you also have to keep in mind things such as "social promotion" and the lack of education (language barriers) parents face when trying to deal with the school system. They have little to no experience with this system and majority of the time are busting their butts working double shifts to even worry about such issues.

[Haatu]

Chimera, having all the help in the world and the best education is handy dandy, but at the end of the day the choice rests on the shoulders of the individual. Most of these drop-outs/criminals live in poor neighbourhoods where they can see the effects of poverty on a daily basis. If this isn't enough to motivate them then I don't know what is.

[raula]

Bisinka Chimera...you don't adhere to simplistic views..you don't adhere to labels..you don't blah blah blah..you post are extremely negative,...can't even read what you are saying because you are consumed by attacking that you can't even see the facts. its not simplistic or superiority complex or whatever names you might come up.. they are the facts bro/sis. As blackflash mentioned why doesn't it affect as much other african cultures..the ghanians, the Ethiopians, the Oromos, why somalis so much eh....???

 

N'ways Blackflash, First thanks for being mature & not responding even when you are being called names, but really you spoke of the fact.

 

Safferz-by the way..Anecdotal evidence is what constitutes primary data (quantitatively/qualitatively). & as Blackflash mentioned institutional racism & other societal/structural limitations (lack of resources) affects all communities residing in those conditions (including A. Americans, white, chinese, Africans that are emigrated to those places etc). So why somalis's.

 

Coofle-the "unique" pride you are inferring to is what has caused so much havoc today. The irony in your adulation is that it has even marginalized many SOmalis now more that even on clan lines & "other" (by somali standards considered non-somali/somali bantu's).

 

Somalis are in conflict w/themselves.

[uchi]

The root of the problem if we are all honest to each other is the lack of parent participation. Perhaps government programs need to focus more on the parents, empowering those that are helpless.

 

I have seen way too many examples of parents not caring about their child's schooling, or giving up too easily, trusting the education system to do the parenting for them etc. it's pretty disheartening. Look at the state of Somalia, we are a lost people, no care for the future.

[AfricaOwn]

Haatu;932618 wrote:

I went to one of the worst schools in the area with the worst teachers. Those of us that cared about our education achieved the grades. The lazy good-for-nothing folks didn't even sit the exams. No one has an excuse for being a drop-out when given so many opportunities.

That's pretty much the bottom-line. No excuses should be made for that, liberals damage to blacks is enormous.

[Chimera]

raula;932894 wrote:

Bisinka Chimera...you don't adhere to simplistic views..you don't adhere to labels..you don't blah blah blah..you post are extremely negative,..

LOL, to some I'm too optimistic, your the first to label me such. Thanks!

 

.can't even read what you are saying because you are consumed by attacking that you can't even see the facts.

What facts? That an immigrant group like the Somalis were dumped in crime-ridden neighbourhoods which in turn produced a minority of Somali criminals? How is that different from any other group that settled in those areas such as the Portuguese, Vietnamese and Iranians, all of whom are struggling with similar issues, some at a worse degree than us?

 

its not simplistic or superiority complex or whatever names you might come up.. they are the facts bro/sis. As blackflash mentioned why doesn't it affect as much other african cultures..

It does affect other African cultures, you guys just haven't bothered to look outside of your own bubble i.e the Somali community. Very self-centered, and yes I am attacking you.

 

the ghanians, the Ethiopians, the Oromos,

None of those groups have a substantial population in Toronto. In America, majority of those groups came 30 to 40 years ago, the last two came during the Derg era. These were well educated immigrants that quickly assimilated and created strong foundations, and were below the radar much like the small Somali diaspora community of the prewar era that consisted of mainly sailors, oil-workers and students. The majority of the Ghanian and Ethiopian households now consist of families where the parents speak the host country's official language, and have risen on the economic ladder. You can't compare them to an immigrant group that literally just came off the boat, and which has a significant majority of Somali speaking parents.

 

The issues we face, the Ghanians, Ethiopians and other longer established African groups all went through the same in the 70s and 80s, and before them the Chinese, Irish and Indians.

 

why somalis so much eh....???

You're a Somali, you don't concern yourselves with the troubles of other communities, otherwise you would have some sort of persepective. If you were an Ethiopian and you got wind of the following headlines and many others like them, you would say why ethiopians so much eh....?

 

- Ethiopian killed owners of Ethiopian restaurant

 

- Ethiopia - Arrest made in D.C. fatal stabbing

 

- Ethiopia - a promise between friends ends in a murder-suicide

 

- Ethiopia - Police say two people were shot, one fatally at Ethiopian Restaurant in DC

 

- Police Arrest 2 for the murder of 51-year-old Tedla Lemma

 

 

- Mesfin Hussin Charged With Killing Wife in Alexandria, VA

 

 

- Stabbed woman's body found in burning suitcase in Islington, UK

 

 

- Dejene Berecha, A restaurant owner from Ethiopia, killed in Seattle, WA

 

 

- LA man charged with killing father, sister; bodies found dumped

 

 

- 2 Robbers Kill Convenience Store Owner Abate Hailu in Dallas Texas.

 

 

- Mass Shooting in Atlanta, Georgia

 

 

- Berhanu Yassin, Metro Atlanta cab driver murdered

 

 

- Motive sought in shooting at Ethiopian wedding party in Atlanta

 

-etc

 

If you look at the situation in Britain, the Somali crime rate is proportionate to their population size; 100 to 250 thousand. Notice how the Ghanians, Zimbabweans and Nigerians all feature in this graph despite their communities having been here longer, despite their first language being English, and despite their income being higher? If the youth from these groups fall by the wayside, why would the youth from the newly settled Somali community with parents who only speak their country's official African language, and that only came with their clothes on their backs not have a segment fall to the seductions of quick money that comes with crime?

 

 

In 10 years time based on the current rate of Somalis entering higher education, getting employed and the hitching of bi-lingual couples, not to mention the rebirth of the motherland, will mean all of these issues we are facing - terrorism, crime, confusion and poverty - will be a thing of the past at best, or reduced significantly at worse.

[AfricaOwn]

^^^^

 

I'm trying to understand your points here:

 

1. " None of those groups have a substantial population in Toronto. In America, majority of those groups came 30 to 40 years ago, the last two came during the Derg era. These were well educated immigrants that quickly assimilated and created strong foundations, and were below the radar much like the small Somali diaspora community of the prewar era that consisted of mainly sailors, oil-workers and students"

 

and

 

2. "Notice how the Ghanians, Zimbabweans and Nigerians all feature in this graph despite their communities having been here longer, despite their first language being English, and despite their income being higher?

[Chimera]

Haatu;932775 wrote:

Chimera, having all the help in the world and the best education is handy dandy, but at the end of the day the choice rests on the shoulders of the individual. Most of these drop-outs/criminals live in poor neighbourhoods where they can see the effects of poverty on a daily basis. If this isn't enough to motivate them then I don't know what is.

I'm referring to the 10 to 17 demographic of Somali boys, if they don't have a strong rock in their lives in the form of a pro-active relative, community worker or friends, there is a strong chance they will succumb to the seductions of crime. Ask yourselves why the justice system seperates this demographic from adults when it comes to crime if it all came down to "personal responsibility"? The reason is because they don't fully comprehend the consequences of their actions, they live pretty much in the moment and mugging another person equals a Blackberry or a wallet to them, and it ends there. An adult criminal knows fully well what his actions will do to do the victim, but proceeds regardless of that.

 

Poverty is the primary motive for a criminal on every single level, its the desire to have something you don't have. We both know there is plenty of stuff Somali kids don't have, while their peers from higher economic backgrounds do. I remember how all the kids in my class had the newest Nike-air shoes, game-boys and other desirable stuff. I remember how some of my childhood friends became drug-runners at 14/15 were awash in cash while I worked at Burger King for five guilders an hour. Do you know how many times the thought of joining them popped in my head? At least 10 times a day.

 

The only reason I didn't succumbed, is because I had a good coach and was all into Kickboxing, which was a non-expensive but discipline inducing sport that built character evendo I never pursued it on a professional level like my sparring partners. I had pro-active relatives that kept me in check in the house and on the street, and I credit them for the reason why I am who I am, personal responsibility had little to do with it.