Arms Embargo should only be Lifted When Government Creates Viable National Army, Recruited from All

[STOIC]

^ Baashi questions are fair enough!

PS: Somalia, I don't respond to kids who are high on discovering their precious little fingers on the keyboard

[NGONGE]

Not sure why Rahima is quoting Baashi and then directing her comments at me!

[STOIC]

^^Because you dipped your Secessionist big toe into Somalia affairs..What is that Cassir stuff ODweyne keeps calling you whenever he suspects you are rooting for atheero Silanyo?

PS In all seriousness I think you looked like you were defending Xiin questions which were fair too, but with a sour taste

[Rahima]

NGONGE;918293 wrote:

^^ All that is good and well. It is even probably being done as we speak. However, here on SOL, we merely discuss the issues of the day in Somalia. With the Somali government requesting the lifting of the embargo, it is natural that people are going to ask questions and air suspicions. Also note that most of the questions are being asked by everyday people, the Imam did not speak yet.

 

The style, delivery and angry tone of these questions is what is wrong here, not the questions themselves.

Because of this Mr. NG.

 

You seemed to be insinuating that people are objecting to the questions themselves, so i thought i'd highlight what genuine questioning and objection look like.

[Rahima]

BTW, i also agree that the lifting of the arms embargo could potentially be catastrophic at this stage. I object not because i believe that there is a master plan from one clan to annihilate another but because we are still in limbo and our government has more important tasks at hand such as developing the social infrastructure of the country.

[SayidSomal]

Everyone is singing from the same hymm sheet but in different tones

[oba hiloowlow]

Khadafi;918430 wrote:

Arrinta wey sahlantahay, SOMALIA does not need more WEAPONS, we need more reconcilation and more dialogue! AK-47 badan khayr ma keenayaan.!

 

As a banaadiri I am totally against the lifting of the arms embargo! Dadka ma washeen yaakhay? Dad ma jiro aaminsan in hub kale soomaliya ku tooseyso!

 

An old somali women once said " NIN AANAN YAABIN WUXUU DHAHAY WAA YAABAY";)

Abti don't be afraid i got ya back.

[NGONGE]

Rahima;918533 wrote:

Because of this Mr. NG.

 

You seemed to be insinuating that people are objecting to the questions themselves, so i thought i'd highlight what genuine questioning and objection look like.

And there I was thinking you were making fun of Baashe's nonsense and accidently wrote my name instead of his!

 

I did not at all insinuate what you think, Rahima. Read my words again (READ THE LAST LINE SLOWLY).

 

Try to ignore the noise and deal with the issue in the title of the thread, Rahima. The noise here is the posturing that we see on this thread by Xiin, Liqye and many others or the red herring of Baashe. The topic is about the arms embargo and the questions related to it.

 

Now please do not insult me by asking me to pay attention to talk of storage, materials and other minutiae. All this is irrelevant here. What's relevant is the main questions regarind the lifting of the arms embargo. REMEMBER, it is not a hypothical issue like the one that Baashe is talking about (or making it sound), it IS a fact that Somalia asked for the lifting of this embargo and some in the International Community support it in its quest. Is it then a big surprise to you that some will feel angry and smell a rat?

 

A question is a question (genuine or not). You either deem it worthy of an answer or you don't. I believe that Xiin's questions were worthy of answers, even if I disagreed with Xiin's delivery. Wax fahan.

[xiinfaniin]

The xiin hysteria is fading away, naturally people are coming to their senses. Reread the articel waryaaya

[Somalia]

 

 

STOIC;918529 wrote:

^ Baashi questions are fair enough!

PS: Somalia, I don't respond to kids who are high on discovering their precious little fingers on the keyboard

Oh wow, what a response, ladies and gentlemen, he defeats his own statement!

[Rahima]

NG,

 

No, it was intentional and Baashi makes complete sense- one of only a few people here

 

As for dealing with the title of the thread- I thought I did. Object to the lifting of the arms embargo if you wish (like I said I also object) but objection should be based on national interest and not regional/clan interests. If your objection is based on the latter (as is the case in the article) expect that people will call you out on your questionable motives. The author seems to be objecting to the arming of one clan militia, not the arming of any clan militias- why should the arming of any clan militia be acceptable?

 

As for the national army, I would rather that it consist of people who are most suited for the role (including not having a militia background or affliation) and yes I would prefer it that it was made up of members from all regions of Somalia but not because I’m suspicious of other clans and therefore demand that mine be represented, but because it would mean that all Somalis can feel a sense of inclusion and nationhood.

 

NG, i acknowledge i am an idealist in many ways- i would prefer to see a Somalia where ones qabiil (which is really what we are referring to here, region has simply become a substitution for qabiil) did not matter but they were rather judged on their merits. This is exactly why i preferred Baashi's response, his objection was based on national interest not regional/qabiil interest.

 

I honestly don't know who Liqye is but Xiin- i expected so much more (and that’s probably why I was so harsh with him in the other post). Once upon a time you would never hear this kind of 'noise' from him- sadly it seems he appears to of have succumb to it- I hope that I am reading him all wrong but two topic so far and I’m getting a particular sense. Even if others are pressing his buttons the ‘noise’ is still not justified. If a person were to insult my clan/region I would be offended, not because it is mine specifically but because of the rubbish clannish mentality they are exhibiting and any responses to them would be along those lines. I believe that we should be just as insulted by the targeting of other clans/regions, as we would be by our own.

[N.O.R.F]

The author’s immediate concern seems to be to try and prevent the equipping of the clan residing in the capital under the pretext that the Somali military is not representative. He also unnecessarily goes into the issues of a yet to mature political process. However, he fails to mention the years of military supplies acquired by the other regions.

 

Naga daaya dee.

 

Baashi’s points notwithstanding, I think that in order for the govnt to secure the region, it needs equipment.

[Haatu]

N.O.R.F;918780 wrote:

The author’s immediate concern seems to be to try and prevent the equipping of the clan residing in the capital under the pretext that the Somali military is not representative. He also unnecessarily goes into the issues of a yet to mature political process. However, he fails to mention the years of military supplies acquired by the other regions.

 

Naga daaya dee.

 

Baashi’s points notwithstanding, I think that in order for the govnt to secure the region, it needs equipment.

Thank you Norf. This is what we were trying to tell xiin all along.

[NGONGE]

Rahima,

 

I understand your position but still think it’s mistaken. There is nothing wrong with being an idealist; however, to become one (in the way you perceive the idea) you would need to distance yourself from all Somali political debate. For an idealist, the discussions of arms embargo, looted houses or clan fights are mere details that get in the way of their romanticised view of Somalia. These details don’t bother them, what they bother with instead are dreams of universal education, absolute justice and comprehensive healthcare (it’s the fantastic world of Chimera’s fluffy Somalia).

 

In these political discussions (should one feel the need to take part in them) the fairest way to participate is when one is being objective. Of course, there is also nothing wrong with being biased (as Xiin is) if you believe in your cause. In your case, you make it clear that you are not rooting for your clan and that you despise opinions that are influenced by clannish leanings. That’s well and good. Alas, only by putting yourself in the shoes of those you disagree with could you be able to give a fair and impartial opinion on the subject. I don’t think you have because you keep going back to your hatred of clan politics (your clan or others). The problem though is that it is your clan that is being attacked in this thread (and that other one about houses) and your opposition (though I fully believe it to be genuine) comes across as an unwitting support of your own clan.

 

 

When Somalia had a PL president, there was a lot of opposition to his actions. His supporters often used the phrase “they don’t want to see a functioning Somalia unless they were in charge”. All protests, opposition and genuine queries were attributed to “them” being in full opposition (in other words, being clannish). Today, the shoe is on the other foot and the “they” line is being used in exactly the same way.

 

Still, there is a big difference between the current president and those before him (even the one that wasn’t from your clan). The difference being that Hassan Sheikh seems to have mastered the ability to ignore the noise and speak the language of appeasement. Of course, he made a mistake or two here and there but, overall; his spoken word has always been one of conciliation and olive branches. For example, where previous Somali presidents would have used the “they” line with Somaliland, he went all out to reassure, pledge and placate. He of course may renege on all that in the future but such language goes along way into building the needed bridges of trust and may, with time, convince people of the idea of a united Somalia. The same language and attitude is needed with those that suspect this government of planning to arm only one clan, etc.

 

Finally, I still repeat that Baashe’s stuff up there is nothing but a red herring. It’s the eternal Somali habit of singing about ostriches when everyone else is singing about camels. Though the melody is sweet and tone faultless, make no mistake in thinking that he’s singing about anything there other than darn ostriches (there are seventeen thousand AMISOM troops in Somalia who keep this government going and will almost certainly be involved in any eventual lifting of the arms embargo when it comes to the minutiae and details). Wax fahan.

[Rahima]

NG,

As i said i did think twice about responding, one reason was as you pointed out i was concerned that i would be accused of fighting for an agenda that i did not wish to be associated with. In saying that though i do believe that i have a track record which would dispel such accusations. Anyone who has been on SOL for more than a nanosecond would know that I have never supported any clan agenda and at one point or another I’ve been accused of belonging to several clans- i suspect you also believe that i belong to a clan that i don't because the general view of Somalis is that my subclan is antagonist to that of the presidents. So far I like this president and although I supported his predecessor I did not like him. That said though, why should any of this matter? I don’t believe that I have made any comments, which would suggest that I am unwittingly supporting my clan other than to state the facts. If I had voiced my opposition simply because some had demanded the returning of looted properties or to the lifting of the embargo, then yes that may be the case but what I objected to was the motivation that they made obvious (not perceived).

 

 

What I find interesting is that you see the bias in Xiin's arguments, a bias which contributes to our problems and yet you legitimise it by calling it 'noise' and a 'cause'. We should call it what it is and confront all those who participate in it. You believe that i am genuine in my points yet you tell me to not participate in such discussions if i am to hold this view. That right there is the problem with the Somali political debates and most probably why we will not anytime in the near future reach a point where we can discuss issues as they pertain to the national interest rather than the interests of those who share the same 20th-great-grandfather. Should we leave the debates to people who only care for the interests of their clan? I am fully aware that Somali politics is a dirty affair maal mahaan but once again the idealist in me feels that it is about time this ended. Sure we will always have an element of it- it is our cudur but surely we can get to a point where the greater good of the country is paramount, SL seems to of have achieved it, I hope that we from Somalia can also achieve this. This constant distrust of one another and hatred has to stop.

 

As for Baashi- I must respectfully disagree with you, he was the only one who actually made sense.