Mogadishu Genocide 2007-2009: The EU and US Must Compensate Victims!

[Daqane]

xiinfaniin;917741 wrote:

^^soo noq noqoshadaadu waxay ii sheegaysaa inaad weli xanaaqsantahay, because when I see an educated mo0ryaan I can easily identify him miles away

Waar dont worry about my anger or lack there of yaa xiinow this is the net, it does not define my personality as it does you, you keep on referring to me in person, and yet you dont want me to respond, so you can chalk it up in cold mpls as a win Nin is waalaba waabiyaa hela, baal is yaarey saaxi.

[Daqane]

Love Somalia;917743 wrote:

I concur, but the obvious question has to be asked: Why are these sentiments resurfacing now as opposed to during Sharif's presidency?

Great question, the simple answer sharif was bought and paid for and intimidated by certain groups stories hot wind, whats changed?

[Haatu]

oba hiloowlow;917582 wrote:

Your all,Ismo dhaanto iyo dhasheedu. Im outta here

Ma aragtey. The cursed generation who destroyed Somalia and who now want to drag us all back. Balaayo qabiil wada dishey.

[xiinfaniin]

I am getting credible feeds as to why our Liqaye is sensitive to this issue

[xiinfaniin]

I happen to believe I have a bit more decorum than his

 

Besides he is wounded now, and as the old cliches goes , the wounded is ever more dangerous.

[Gheelle.T]

Daqane dhibkiisu waa dowladii inuu dadka iska xijiyay, haddana leh Soomaali oo dhan ay matashaa aan ka ahayn D--roodka qaxay. Bal maxaa diidaya ina Youtube iyo internet ama Coffee shop grievances qof ka dhiibto? Qof loo joojin maayo iyo bootata kuwii ka horeeyay aa ku dumay. Dowladdan waxa horyaal siday kuwa ka biyo diidan ay tuhunka uga saari laheed. Kuwa taageersanna aysan wax dulimin. Haddiise ay noqoto waa tookadeenii, hadda waa giraantu ha wareegto sideedii.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Awoowe Gheelle,

 

Jees-jees kaa iigu daran . TB baa ku dhacday kulahaa oday uu dhacay oo gurigiisii ka cayrsaday .

[Daqane]

Haha xiinow has all your vim and verve come down to the tactics of your ethnic barrow boys, I am also as agog with anticipation as apophis, what will your gossipy sign come up with, we are waiting

[Gheelle.T]

lol@TB. la arki doonee

[Waranle_Warrior]

I said it before this issue of the manufactured massacre of 2007-2009 was nothing more than an attempt to counter the illegal property occupation raised.

[Raamsade]

Apophis;917621 wrote:

First, there is no "courts" with legitimacy let alone impartiality or any other basic criteria essential for an institution to be called a "court" (how can there be when the government itself is struggling with these things?).

If the courts in operations now and the ones being currently formed don't have legitimacy, who does? Ironically, you're taking the same position Al Qaacida has taken, namely that this government and its institutions are illegitimate.

 

And if you are now dismissing these courts as lacking legitimacy, what makes you think others will not dismiss as illegitimate other process or avenues acceptable to you?

 

 

Two, some very limited and insignificant amount of properties may have been returned but there's no evidence such restitution were the result of a governmental "court". Those who got their properties back, I would posit, had done so through informal avenues.

At least people are getting their properties back, which is what we're debating. That Somalia's legal institutions are at nascent stages goes without saying. Only the deluded can seriously expect Somalia, a country without central authority for more than 20 years, to have fully functioning legal system. The point remains, people HAVE gotten their properties back. Those who still have properties to get, will hopefully get them back in the near future. There is no reason to get hysterical about this issue which is minor issue. Somalia has bigger fish to fry like mass illiteracy, worst infant and maternal mortality rates in the world, lack of clean drinking water, famines, food shortages, piracy, private militias depredating the countryside, Islamic extremism, etc.

 

 

The majority cannot wait for the criminals living in their properties to get a conscience and hand it back to them.

You can't be serious. Are you telling me a guy living in Toronto, Canada enjoying free world class healthcare, free education, employment or benefits, peace and justice, 3 square meals and a roof over his head, etc.... that guy can't wait for 5 years until Somalia gets on its feet and we have functioning legal system? Don't tell me you're that naive! If this issue is REALLY about redressing illgotten properties, I can assure we can wait few more years. It is not a pressing issue for Somalia right now.

 

In sum, there's no evidence of any legitimate Somali law court functioning which has the power to evict looters or grant any meaningful restitution.

And your solution to this is to throw the baby with the bathwater, right? Tell us, what do you realistically propose?

 

 

 

And your suggestion that the victims should " try their luck now and go back like many Somalis are doing" is both laughable and cruel. You want them to lose their lives on top of their worldly goods?? You gotta to be kidding me.

Thousands upon thousands of Somalis from every clan extraction are returning to Xamar to either visit, start business or other projects or reclaim/renovate their properties. Your fears muderous cabal waiting to murder people for seeking to get back their properties are simply unfounded.

[Rahima]

xiinfaniin;917709 wrote:

Look at the pathetic notion insinuated openly here, and blanket accusations of qabiilism!

Xiin, let's get real here for a minute. Whether or not you are right about this issue is not the point. Even if we agree for arguments sake that "they started it first" with their qabiilist comments (and I'm not saying that they did lest i get accused of bias), the fact that you have reciprocated with comments just as distasteful puts you under the same cloud. Ha ka xanaaqin, most who aren't motivated by qabiil interests have a problem with how this entire discussion has panned out and I'm sure most would want it deleted.

 

You are all pointing fingers at each other yet the odd thing is isku mid ayaa tihiin and none of you seem to be interested in reconciliation or peace just the defence and domination of your respective qabiils- pot calling the kettle black is what comes to mind.

 

Somalia will not come back because you are all destroying it.

 

Che- I told you SL was onto a smart thing,lol. Sadly i think there is no other option, everywhere you go dadkeena cuqdad ayaa ka buuxdo. The sadder thing is they will pollute the next generation as well- you will see twenty year olds who weren't even born back then arguing about Siyaad Barre (AUN) and Caydiid (AUN).

[Raamsade]

Apophis;917873 wrote:

Rhetorical questions will not help you answer what I've said. Putting aside my Al-Qaaida affiliation charge, I will repeat what I have stated previously. There's no legitimate court system functioning in Mogadishu. The government is barely surviving and you want us to believe they were able to put together an even mediocre and somewhat impartial court system?? That is a key word -impartial-.and no, that I cannot believe (especially on your say so).

It is not a rhetorical question. You've just dismissed as illegitimate one of the core institutions of the newly formed Federal Somali Government, one that was formed through protracted process involving all Somalis and won a ringing endorsement from the international community. It is fair to ask, if the courts in Xamar don't have legitimacy according to you, who does?

 

And courts don't have to comply with your legitimacy criteria; only thing that matters is if they can render judgement and adjudicate disputes. There is plenty of evidence that there are functioning courts in Xamar. Human Rights Watch was recently up in arms about a court in Xamar that sentenced a journalist and alleged rape victim to prison. So, courts exist, function and render judgments.

 

 

 

Only that there be a judicial system which is impartial and inclusive (from top to bottom). We do not have that now.

Rome wasn't built in a day and reconstituting Somalia's legal system won't take 1 or 2 years. Give it a time and go on with your life in the meantime.

 

 

 

If all you are content with is ticking a box which says

people have gotten their property back

then you only need one person to fulfil your criteria.

You're missing the point. If properties have been returned, however few, then the argument that stolen properties haven't or can not be returned has been refuted. Only thing left to discuss is the pace and scale which we can all agree is slow and small.

 

 

Queen Elizabeth herself, if she had her properties looted in Mogadishu, should not have to wait a second for what is rightfully hers let alone a refugee in living in a foreign country.

Once again, you're missing the point. If the people "waiting for looted properties" were languishing in squalid refugee camps, then yes there should be greater urgency in restituting stolen properties. But they're not. At least not the ones on Youtube and the internet. Their lives would not be materially worse off if they wait another 5 years. So, what's the fuss?

 

 

What makes you think things will be different in 5 years??

 

Because I'm sanguine person by nature and I believe with time and some luck Somalia will get better in the future. So, in 5 years time the legal system should be more robust and should better settle disputes between individuals.

 

 

That's why we have elected leaders but I will suggest, humbly,

maybe we should start to listen to the victims and not defend looters.[/

QUOTE]

 

Who is against listening to the victims? If people have grievances about stolen properties IN Xamar, surely the place to take your grievances is Xamar not Youtube. And who is defending these nebulous "looters?" Requesting for people to adhere to a modicum of debating etiquete such as not engaging in ad hominem attacks (like calling Dhaqane "a looter who lives in looted property" as you, Che, Jacphur and Xiin have), is not defending these amorphous "looters." Ever met a looter in your life? I haven't. But I sure like to meet me a looter one day.

 

Also, simply asking for documentation or some evidence for property you own is not tantamount to "defending looters." It is being prudent. And there is good reason for it. Take my family as an example. My father sold one of our homes near Mogadishu Stadium in late 1991 after we fled Xamar. It was private sale between two individuals, no courts or institutions oversaw or verified the sale. No taxes were paid. No reciepts were exchanged. I'm not sure if they even signed a letter indicating the sale. But suppose they did. If my father was morally unscrupolous, he can go back to Xamar today and reclaim his home. What can the new owner do? He has no official reciepts. He may have paper stating the change of ownership with my father's signiture but if my father disputes it, you'll need courts/tribunals to adjudicate. Anyway you look at you'll need a due process and to go back to Xamar not whine on Youtube.

 

 

Millions

were evicted at gun point so you'l forgive me if a few thousand locals coming back does not fill me with joy and a sense of a return to normalcy.

You are losing your marbles. Millions never lived in Xamar so it is impossible for millions to have been evicted at gun point. It is clear that you never lived in Xamar during the Civil War because if you did, you'd know people were not "evicted" at gun point, they fled for their lives and opportunists occupied properties they thought were abandoned by their owners for good. They were wrong and should return them, no argument there.

 

 

I will not be going back anytime soon and neither will any sensible person.

Why would you go there? I thought you were from Kenya. Anyways, you're longfoot so you should have no problem going to Xamar. Only Xiin's folks are unwanted in Xamar (kidding!).

[nuune]

Raamsade said this:

 

they fled for their lives and opportunists occupied properties they thought were abandoned by their owners for good. They were wrong and should return them, no argument there.

End of discussion, what else is there to talk about anyway, everyone is now onboard for stolen propeties to be returned, a lot of misunderstanding in this thread, acuudkoow

[xiinfaniin]

Rahima,

 

Come again. You are talking nonsense. I believe there are mo0ryaans who prevented Somalia from having a functioning state to ensure the enemy clan should not come back to its land, and primarily to the capital. Liqaye's comments serve as intellectual voice for such political culture. I do not misunderstand anyone. I should not be misunderstood. Any one who puts him self in the mo0ryaan category I speak of, who feels I am picking on him/her , there is nothing I can do to soothe such feelings. But I mean what I say.

 

You see, I am knee deep in Somali politics to be shoe away with such a nonsense appeal of civility when one writes liberally, and sarcastically about the true victims of Somali civil war. For the record, I have no fear of recovering of our properties in the south. But that does not mean thousands of innocent people who have been brutally been affected by the ugly civil war, whose children are now readers of this fora should put up with the likes of Liqaye (and to some extent you Rahima with your moral is le ekeyn)...it is nonsense wallahi and beyond diin iyo dadnimo