Faysal Waraabe: Somalia government recognition grave threat

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Whats the new conference in London about che?

[Che -Guevara]

^Giving more international legitimacy to this new admin at the expense of all regions in Somalia. It's no longer a conference of equals. Cameron and Hasan will be co-chairing the meeting.

[AfricaOwn]

*Blessed;910240 wrote:

Oodweyne,

I wonder how you deduce that I have 'blind support' for the president from my comment?? I was referring to Faisal making a u-turn against a policy which he has himself supported advocated for until now? Here was his speech at the London 2012 conference with SL Diaspora in the UK:

, he made similar remarks at the UCID convention in April. Haduu leeyahay been baa dadka loo sheegayay, ilayn isagaa wax naga oge waa in uu xisaabta isku daraa, ma fahantay?

 

 

I think the internal failures of our government poses more danger for the progress and recognition of Somaliland than Americas relationship with the government of Somalia...

I think what his trying to say is that the fact that Faisal claims are not consistent with his actions might indicate that his is a hypocrite but this does not prove his claims are false. You're focused on Faisal, pay attention to his message.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Oodweyne wasn't it the brits their own conference that came with the whole talking to Somalia as a way out or some sort of solution. Or was attending the conference last year a bad thing to do. I still think though even though there is no clear time table with these talks that with in those talks some sort of agreement can be reached with the Koonfurians if the talks fail we can always go back to our self imposed isolation no one to hurt Somaliland and continue and take a different foreign policy. But i am sure this Hassan culusow guy is a very reasonable guy and isn't as obsessed with the Union as some of his predecessors. Somaliland just needs to play its cards well when these talks re start soon. And i am sure the International community will be in the center of these talks and they will be held in Europe or a Neutral African country in time we will know more about the SL and Somalia situation.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Forget about Kulmiye or the previous government our foreign policy has its deep holes since 1991 and its of concern but what are the alternatives to reach a point where we can say that sort of particular foreign policy will bear fruit for Somaliland i am more interested in that. I think its a bit risky what the Kulmiye govt did.But if we keep our selves at a point where we not moving forward or not making progress. Than people will wonder whats wrong with our policy or are our politicians incompetent to accomplish the mission?

[Blessed]

^Well said, Faisal himself has pointed out on numerous occations that the previous strategy did not work and SL will need to try something different, when this doesn't work, once again SL will be forced to try yet another route.. and another and another..

 

 

Oh dear@ Oodweyne and Africanown... aren't we full of airs and graces, my dear lads? lol.

 

I've always maintained that these talks are pointless and no reunion of Somalis or a recognition of the nation of SL will be reached in May 2013, even with a serious Obama in the room. I'm surprised that so many fall for these theatrics.

 

That said, my response which you Oodweyne ran with and laced with your own assumptions on my weak maiden perception of things, my dear lad was simply on the speech given by a specific person and it's within the remits of this thread *one hopes* to point out the merits (or lack of ) within his speech. Off course, I'm just airing my humble opinion and if you would like to get into deeper discussion of the wider issues, I would appreciate it if you did so without twisting my words..

[ole-maasai]

All in all it doesnt sound pragramatic from the International community aproach, that they Isolate a functioning democratic entity for the sake of yet to be fully established Entity in and around mogadishu. What interest is there for them to pacify and side with one party while sidelining the other. I think the international community would objectvely analyse the situation and would really want to get it right this time. Its verily premature for many solers here, to overead into the US gesture towards the current Mogaidshu administration, coming up with utter exageration of the groomed muscles, thus dictating terms to its very providers.

 

Having said that I agree with Oodka on Somaliland need to have its cards right. At least send a foreign minister with not only a strategic plan but a serious voice too Its said that in the diplomatic arenas the voice and the tones on the negotiating table can factor into the outcome.

[Mintid Farayar]

ole-maasai;910390 wrote:

All in all it doesnt sound pragramatic from the International community aproach, that they Isolate a functioning democratic entity for the sake of yet to be fully established Entity in and around mogadishu. What interest is there for them to pacify and side with one party while sidelining the other. I think the international community would objectvely analyse the situation and would really want to get it right this time. Its verily premature for many solers here, to overead into the US gesture towards the current Mogaidshu administration, coming up with utter exageration of the groomed muscles, thus dictating terms to its very providers.

 

Having said that I agree with Oodka on Somaliland need to have its cards right. At least send a foreign minister with not only a strategic plan but a serious voice too

Its said that in the diplomatic arenas the voice and the tones on the negotiating table can factor into the outcome.

Very well put. I was one of the first to call out the SL gov't on this epic fail, but let's not get carried away. It's a significant diplomatic setback for SL, but it's not the end of SL! It's the ineptitude of the Foreign Agenda team in SL that's being highlighted here, not to mention a President that's missing in action during each national crisis, whether internal or external. These are undeniable facts observed by all.

 

More than 5 days ago, I posted this from Africa Confidential:

 

Mintid Farayar;908585 wrote:

Northern parts

Somaliland’s success story will come under growing regional pressure in 2013, partly because of developments in neighbouring Somalia. The key issue for Somaliland remains diplomatic recognition as a nation state. That seems as far away as ever despite the territory’s success both in generally maintaining peace and security within its self-declared territorial borders and in raising revenue.

Yet it has been largely shunned by the international aid organisations and the major powers involved in Somalia.

 

Bilateral talks between Somalia and Somaliland held in the United Arab Emirates and Britain last year

ultimately came to nothing.

Somaliland has adopted a realpolitik policy towards Mogadishu, a marked change from years past, and has largely abandoned its formerly hostile rhetoric.

 

For 2013, President Ahmed Mohamed Silanyo has announced a budget of US$123 million for Somaliland, $14 mn. more than neighbouring Somalia. Somalia’s

President Hassan Sheikh Mohamud has given no indication that his government will hold meaningful discussions with the Hargeisa government over the issue of recognition,

and both Puntland and Somaliland seem resigned to focus on domestic policies.

 

 

Africa Confidential

http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/69404-U.S.-Ambassador-Somaliland-the-solution-to-the-Northern-Mali-Crisis?p=908585#post908585

 

I remain hopeful that SL leadership(both gov't and opposition) will wake from their deep slumber, but some changes will need to happen at the top, in certain porfolios responsible for this setback. The good thing for all those suspicious of a strengthened Mogadishu is that not much additional funding is currently being tabled by Western donors after the Washington recognition. Mogadishu has a long way to go before it's trusted with serious funds, according to the holders of the purse strings...

[NGONGE]

^^ I am really lost here. What exactly changed this week to make you and the Guru go against the Kulmiye government this strongly? Nothing really changed. SL is stillt he same SL that took part in the first talks (the talks that Waraabe was part of, I saw him with my own eyes). So why was he (and you) ok with it back then and why are you talking about the world ending today?

 

p.s.

This is also why I teased you about defection the other day, Guru.

 

Blessed, the man was in the team that took part in the first talks too.

 

[Mintid Farayar]

NGONGE;910527 wrote:

^^ I am really lost here. What exactly changed this week to make you and the Guru go against the Kulmiye government this strongly? Nothing really changed. SL is stillt he same SL that took part in the first talks (the talks that Waraabe was part of, I saw him with my own eyes). So why was he (and you) ok with it back then and why are you talking about the world ending today?

 

p.s.

This is also why I teased you about defection the other day, Guru.

 

Blessed, the man was in the team that took part in the first talks too.

 

 

Ngonge,

 

I know it's hard to keep track of member positions given the huge number of participants in this Forum, however let's be careful with the blanket statements and broad brushes. Speaking solely for myself, the issue is not with Kulmiye, but rather with the continuous failure of Somaliland leadership elites to properly predict and prepare for changing situations since the formation of Somaliland. We've had similar moments during the aftermath of Arta (Abdiqasim's gov't), Mbegathi (A. Yusuf's gov't), Djibouti Accords (Sharif's gov't), and now with Hassan Sheikh. Each time we hear naive statements coming from each successive Hargeisa admin that the new boys in Mog are friends of the cause, etc. And then the other shoe drops and it's back to square one.

 

Something is wrong with the collective brain trust among the elites in Hargeisa and the 'masakiin' who stand out for hours in the sun to vote during each electoral cycle are betrayed(or let down, to use a less harsh term) once again.....

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

You are correct mintid but the thing we havent had any formal talks with an admin in Mogadisho in a long time. Abdilahi yusuf sharif we hardly dealt with them only sharifs last days in office. And only with cabdi qasbaye in the 1999 but the thing was there wasnt any framework to hold talks at that time. Now there is the situation might be a bit different as how it was back than,

[NGONGE]

Mintid Farayar;910583 wrote:

Ngonge,

 

I know it's hard to keep track of member positions given the huge number of participants in this Forum, however let's be careful with the blanket statements and broad brushes. Speaking solely for myself, the issue is not with Kulmiye, but rather with the continuous failure of Somaliland leadership elites to properly predict and prepare for changing situations since the formation of Somaliland. We've had similar moments during the aftermath of Arta (Abdiqasim's gov't), Mbegathi (A. Yusuf's gov't), Djibouti Accords (Sharif's gov't), and now with Hassan Sheikh. Each time we hear naive statements coming from each successive Hargeisa admin that the new boys in Mog are friends of the cause, etc. And then the other shoe drops and it's back to square one.

 

Something is wrong with the collective brain trust among the elites in Hargeisa and the 'masakiin' who stand out for hours in the sun to vote during each electoral cycle are betrayed(or let down, to use a less harsh term) once again.....

I still don't understand what has changed THIS WEEK, Mintid. It was always known that "talks" will take place between the TFG or its replacement (now a recognised Somalia) and SL. So what exactly happened to make you, Oodwyne, Stoic and even Norf begin all this doom and gloom talk?

 

Save for the cosmitc changes taking place in Somalia (new president, new parliment, etc) I don't see anything that changes or cancels out the agreed (to) talks between Somaliland and whoever happens to be in charge of Somalia. Regardless of Obama or SL defection, the fact still remains that the two sides must sit together to clarify their relationship. Furthermore, I don't think anyone in SL (no matter what side they're on) is under any false impressions about those sitting across the table from them in these talks (there are no friends in politics, saaxib. Only interests, like Faisal proved in his rant there and his picture above).

[NGONGE]

Nonsense, Guru. The vague wording of the talks was not THAT vague is to allow for the picture you paint here, saaxib. Read it again and see how clearly it insists upon the talks and the IC’s role in them. There is no ambiguity about the distinction between the two sides; there are no hidden traps and no obligations on either side to toe any other line than that of engaging on honest and progressive talks.

 

As for your emphasis on the US’s recognition of Somalia, I still insist that nothing has changed here. The US and the International Community have made no secret of their desire to see Somalia saved from itself, saaxib. Their support and participation in the Somali peace process (Garowe 1, 2, 3...etc, etc, etc) was there from the start. Their insistence on an end to transition was there for all to see. Add to that the support for AMISOM, the setup of financial management bodies and the active increase of foreign embassies in Somalia and even you would be able to see that the Obama meeting did not come out of nowhere.

 

However, all that propping up was taking place on one side (as you say) whilst all along Somaliland was allowed to remain as it is and was appeased with the promise that the IC will simply facilitate talks between them and the TFG (or its replacement). Isn’t that what is taking place here? What did SL concede here, saaxib? What does it stand to lose?

[NGONGE]

Nonsense, bro, is the cheap line you are desperately clutching in here. Particularly so that you could safe the embarrassing blushes of the current government of somaliland which was caught with it's pants down.

I already asked you what the problem was in several posts of mine but you have not answered me yet, saaxib. I don't need to confirm or deny that I am in support of the Kulmiye goverment becuase that's beside the point here.

 

Furthermore you do know there has not been one single country that came forward to be the "legal facilitator" of the said talks between somalia and somaliland. And by that I mean a mediator that has a legal standing similar to ones the "meditating powers" in the Palestinians and Israel case, have.

It might be my dodgy memeory but I'm sure there was mention of the Brits, the EU and Norway asfacilitators of the talks. In addition, the UAE also played its part.

 

Again let me remind you that is pity for you to try that silly story about British volunteering to do anything in here. For I know (and I hope you know) that they said the talks are between Somalis and in the event you guys are not agreeing on anything then the international community (IC) should be referred back to.

Is it really silly story? Err, did the first talks not take place in the UK or were we dreaming that one? Naga daa dee.

 

 

 

Saaxiib, it really has passed the midnight time when you should of stopped carrying the "political water" for this failed government we have in Somaliland. And therefore desist writing in glowing terms it's cheaply cobbled together foreign policy which mostly is animated by a desperate attempt of getting rich quickly as anything else. Unless, of course, there is something else you are not telling us in here, bro.

Read my previous replies, saaxib. Here I am taking you seriously and giving you proper replies yet you keep letting me down by talking about midnight and political waters. War wax sheeg dee.

 

p.s.

 

I read your "waxa la yedhi" stuff about the coffee shops of London and stories of Kulmiye supporters bragging to you about this or that. I needn't say how disappointed I am in the level you're stooping to here, however, I would love to get to the bottom of this and find out what rattled you so much as to get you to argue in such a strange way saaxib. It is not at all like you.

[NGONGE]

^^ I am a simple man, saaxib. When I don't know about something, I ask.