A third way for Somaliland and Somalia

[Taleexi]

DoctorKenney;910375 wrote:

The animosity Somalilanders have towards Somalia is alarming. I've spoken to dozens of people from "Somaliland" and I've heard countless rants from them about how "barbaric" Somalia is. And I understand that forcing Somaliland into a Union will cause further animosity between us as a people. They can't stand us, and it's sad to see that.

 

But what would you do? Think about the repercussions if Somaliland was given independence. What's stopping the people of Awdal, or the people of Sanaag from "seceding" from Somaliland and re-joining Somalia proper? Wouldn't you think that creating a framework with a decentralized Federal government to be the best solution to this issue? This would at least create some sort of compromise where Somalia stays united but the people of each region can run their own affairs and establish their own regional government.

Waa su'aal muhiim ah that will hunt down the founder's of SL in perpetuity. Clan states have no end.

[Taleexi]

oba hiloowlow;910513 wrote:

waar dadkaan maxaa lo baryayaa let them believe in their fairytale LaLa land

Waxaa loo khasbayaa - dano badan baa iskagakeen xiran. But rest assured, no one will have his way.

[NGONGE]

Ace of Spadez;910129 wrote:

The more things change, the more they stay the same. It is comical to say the least to witness the same old hostility year in and year out with no end in sight. I’ve been hearing these lines for the past 22 years:

 

“Somaliland is carro [insert qabiil here]”

“Somaliland cannot survive economically”

“Somaliland is a foreign creation – Ethiopia, UK, etc.”

“Somaliland does not exist, it is Gobolka Waqooyi Galbeed”

“Somaliland will crumble as soon as Somalia gets a legitimate government”

“Somaliland will come back to the fold when the international community lavishes Somalia with developmental aid”

“Somaliland has been rejected by the international community, and therefore cannot be sustainable”

 

All these taunts have hit a crescendo this week. Somalia finally has a recognized government and will be afforded all the aid that comes with it. So that must mean Somaliland is dead in the water. One solitary photo with Obama and Somaliland has effectively been hobbled permanently if not trashed in the annals of history as an aberration.

 

The popular belief is since Mogadishu will be pulling the purse strings, it will dangle some carrots in front of Somaliland and the people will rush en masse like lemmings. Unfortunately for my friends from Somalia this phantom hope that Somaliland will cease to exist will not come to pass. I must apologize for being the bearer of such bad news.

 

For all intent and purposes, nothing has really changed for Somaliland. Somaliland has been receiving aid under the name Somalia since 1991 and will continue to do so. In fact, it will get it directly. Yes, you heard me, directly. Point 5 of the Somaliland-Somaliland communiqué in Chevening House gaurentees this: “Agreed to share experience on working more effectively with the international community on the use of development and humanitarian assistance for the people of both sides and called for the international community to increase that assistance; “.

 

So in a nut shell, if when more aid comes for Somalia, Somaliland will get its share directly, what incentive does Somalia have to entice Somaliland with? The answer is a big fat nothing. In fact even the ones who had some hope of Pan-Somalism be it out of sheer convenience or clannish calculus; the likes Prof. Samatar & Prof. Galeydh came up empty handed going 0 for 2.

 

Now the reality in the Horn of Africa is that Somaliland has shown it is economically, politically and culturally viable existing for the past 22 years. It is also evident that it controls nearly every major city within its borders from Zeyla to Lascanod, Ceerigaabo to Borama, Xuddun to Gebilay and therefore in possession of its territory. So the question is then if Somalia does not have any muscle to subdue Somaliland –since it is being propped up foreign and neighbouring countries’ forces – and has no economic incentive – since Somaliland will be getting its aid directly– what is left for Somalia to do? I think the most pragmatic solution is that of Rahima; live & let live. There is no putting this genie back in its bottle. The die is cast. Time to move on I say and lets go easy on the negativity.

 

Now, for those from Somaliland, as much as I would philosophically agree with Mr. Mohamed Hashi, or Mr. Oodweyne, or Mr. Warancadde about not entertaining any talks with Somalia, I am inclined to agree with President Silanyo on this matter. The simple truth is people make decisions with their stomach not on principle. Mr Mohamed Hashi can wait until year 3000 for the recognition of Somaliland, because he is a man of principle, but the likes of Mr. Buurmadow cannot. So what should a responsible government do? It must deliver development for its people so that they may not be enticed by fools gold that might have otherwise become enticing. We’ve always received aid in the name of Somalia, it is no secret. To take a pre-emptive strike to negotiate in getting your share of aid without relinquishing your sovereignty is a master stroke. In fact I believe President Silanyo has effectively inoculated Somaliland from the defections that would have come had they not taken this step as people complained about the lack of development vis-à-vis with Somalia. I know offense is the more attractive way to play, but playing defense goes a long to set one up for victory. Our issue is not with winning battles, but winning the war.

 

The journey we’re on is not one day but we’re in it for the long haul. The last interview Mr. Ibrahim Maygag Samatar gave was to continue to build our nation and strengthen our democracy and make our country a better place, with or without recognition. Let us not lose sight of the bigger picture. The temporary fission caused by the local elections will subside and the disaffected will coalesce under the two national opposition parties. Patience always wins out, as the Somali saying goes “Hadii Degdegsiimo Door Noqdaan, Kaadsiiyana Kiish Lacag ah Bay Noqdaan”

I fully agree. I'm tempted to sack my guru and employ you in his place now.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

oba hiloowlow;910513 wrote:

waar dadkaan maxaa lo baryayaa let them believe in their fairytale LaLa land

Waxa lo daba socda adna waad ogtahay ana waan ogahay ilaah na wa ogyahay

Somalia cant survive with out Somaliland politically socially economically , i believe the vast majority of the koonfurians have not the confidence to exist on their own they need Somaliland to continue as a state., Somalia can surive with out O'gaden region with out NFD with Out Djibouti. But it cant surive with out Somaliland, with out Somaliland , Somalia is nothing zero the past 21 years is you're proof.

[NGONGE]

^^ That's just a preception, Xaaji. Somalia can survive without Somaliland and will. Somaliland can survive without Somalia and does. The two will go their seperate ways at the conclusion of the talks.

[Taleexi]

- after the talk we shall wait and see.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

NGONGE maybe Somalia should come under Somaliland for 10 years and after that when its people have the confidence to survive on their own we set them free just like a bird.

[Alpha Blondy]

NGONGE;910550 wrote:

^^ That's just a preception, Xaaji. Somalia can survive without Somaliland and will. Somaliland can survive without Somalia and does. The two will go their seperate ways at the conclusion of the talks.

where did you get these lines from? sounds a little ambiguous and lot like the stuff kulmiye produces.

[NGONGE]

^^ Alpha,

 

The Kulmiye attacks have all come because of the election problems. People with an axe to grind found a voice through that botched election to spread this new nonsense about the government and how it plans to give away SL on the cheap. It's all simplistic stuff and nonsense.

 

Xaaji,

Doubt any of that will happen, saaxib. Like I said, the worst I expect is a South Sudan case where another referundum takes place and the two sides go their seperate ways. Remember the details of the first talks between the two sides:

 

Agreed that

the talks would take place between two sides

– the TFG (or its replacement) and Somaliland, in accordance with paragraph 6 of the London Conference Communiqué and paragraph 10 of the Istanbul II Conference Communiqué;

 

Noted the need to adopt a common approach to avoid anything that would undermine the continuation of the talks as defined above

;

 

Committed to the continuation of the talks and called on the two presidents to meet to review progress as soon as possible;

 

Called on the international community to continue to facilitate the talks, including

providing the two sides

with external experts on legal, economic and security matters;

 

Agreed to share experience on working more effectively with the international community on the use of development and humanitarian assistance

for the people of both sides

and called for the international community to increase that assistance;

 

Agreed to cooperate in the fight against terrorism, extremism and serious crimes;

 

Agreed to cooperate in the fight against piracy at sea and on land, maritime crime, illegal fishing and toxic dumping; and

Reiterated their support for ending the Transition in Somalia.

It is TWO SIDES and regardless of whatever happens on one side it will not "undermine the continuation of the talks". In other words, the master plan that resulted in the recogniton of Somalia, the defeat of Al Shabab or the election of Hassan Sheikh is also the one that created these talks and made it clear that SL is viewed as different, seperate and autonomous. In addition, since Hassan Sheikh himself clarified the point that there will be no coercing (politically or by force) of SL into rejoining the union, the only thing left is to persuade each other via the talks themselves. I know and you know that there is no way that SL can be persuaded to join the union, which leaves us with only one option; formal secession.

 

Naga daaya dee.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Well let the talking begin somalidu ha wada sheekeystan si hufan

[Siciid1986]

"I doubt that the formal recognition by USA of the new Somali government will have any significant impact on Washington's interaction with Somaliland" Amb Shinn

By: Yusuf M Hasan

 

HARGEISA (Somalilandsun) – The US is expected to maintain its dual policy as pertains to its engagement with Somalia and Somaliland.

 

This was informed to somalilandsun by Ambassador David Shinn during an interview in which he allayed mounting fears in Somaliland that a related to the recent formal recognition of the new Somali government by Washington.

 

The former US diplomat who is an expert on Horn Africa issues also urged Somaliland to work even harder to implement democratic governance, resolve differences with factions in Sool and Sanaag and leave the door open for discussions with officials in Mogadishu.

 

Below are the full verbatim excerpts of the interview

 

Does the USA recognition of the new Somali government change its dual track policy for engaging Somalia and Somaliland?

 

During the visit to Washington in January by Somali President Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, the United States officially recognized Somalia. During a press conference, a reporter from the Voice of America asked Secretary of State Hillary Clinton if the United States will continue its previous dual track policy of dealing with both the Somali government in Mogadishu and regional administrations. Secretary Clinton did not respond directly to the question. She emphasized that the United States looks forward to the successful conclusion of Somalia's political transition, which will mark the beginning of a new era of Somali governance. She made no reference to Somaliland.

 

Do we assume the USA has abandoned commitments towards supporting dialogue between Somali and Somaliland dialogue?

 

While I don't speak for the U.S. government, I doubt that the formal recognition of the new Somali government will have any significant impact on Washington's interaction with Somaliland. I believe the U.S. government will continue to work with Somaliland as it has in recent years. While there may not be public references to the two track policy, the separate administration in Somaliland remains a reality and I believe Washington will treat it as such. It is up to the leaders of Somalia and Somaliland to determine the nature of their relationship. I see no indication that the United States has abandoned any commitments reached in last year's London conference. Nor do I expect this development will change in any perceptible way U.S. policy on combatting piracy in the region.

 

What's your advice to Somaliland in view of the enhanced USA partnership with Somalia?

 

From my position as an outside observer, the best approach for Somaliland is to work even harder to implement democratic governance, resolve differences with factions in Sool and Sanaag and leave the door open for discussions with officials in Mogadishu.

[Haatu]

Xaaji Xunjuf;910553 wrote:

NGONGE maybe Somalia should come under Somaliland for 10 years and after that when its people have the confidence to survive on their own we set them free just like a bird.

I knew you would come around if one of your uncles were to be made President of the Somalis. Sounds nice, doesn't it Xaaji?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

i am looking for solutions haatu i dont really care much about uncles or what they get, I am looking for something that both Somalia and Somaliland can say hey this can work for both of us. Somalia and Somaliland situation can be solved real easy as i said the only thing stopping to solve the problem is Somalias emotional attachment to Somaliland.Its like when kids need to be walked in the dark by a parent Somaliland needs to hold Somalias hand while walking in the dark and the moment Somalia is ready to let go Somaliland will let go. Somalia needs caring and some sort of guidance from Somaliland.Somalia is a irresponsible kid and he likes to party and he invites his older not so good friends at his place Kenya Ethiopia uganda and they take advantage of his vulnerability and that needs to be helped. While his older brother Somaliland is busy moving out of town with his wife and kids. Little Somalia is left alone and needs shelter and the help he can use to overcome his problems.