A third way for Somaliland and Somalia

[Ace of Spadez]

Rahima lets use your analogy. For sake of argument, you’ve depicted Somaliland as the wife. I won’t protest as you have made Somaliland that more appealing by describing it as the fairer of the two sexes

 

So to continue, let us assume the wife before she got married was very pretty, smart, & romantic young lady. She fell in love with a cousin who she thought was the closest thing to her and that he would enable her to reach her full potential. Let us assume that in this relationship immediately after their marriage he told her she was to drop out of school, and basically just cook and clean and produce babies while he went on to further his studies, travelled the world and reached for the stars. Let us assume after 10 years of such an arraignment, where at least he paid some of the bills, he stopped paying, started using intoxicants and became physically abusive. One day she fights back and she breaks his back and her children get slaughtered in the blood bath. Now imagine this woman survives. However, her husband is in a wheelchair for many years. During this time, she finds herself, goes to school, started to apply herself and is working towards her dream career while she takes odd jobs here and there. Would you say go back to your husband shortly after he is no longer in need of a wheelchair? When he has no job himself? Lol I think not, the smart thing to do is, forgive each other and part ways.

 

No one is going to go back into such a power dynamic. Somaliland has tasted the sweetness of self determination and it will not give it up.

[Rahima]

Ace of Spadez;910150 wrote:

Rahima lets use your analogy. For sake of argument, you’ve depicted Somaliland as the wife. I won’t protest as you have made Somaliland that more appealing by describing it as the fairer of the two sexes

Umm...Ok. Is it a negative thing to depict SL as the wife? You do realise that i am woman, do you not?

 

Anyway your extension of my analogy sucks my friend. SL is not a victim of Somalia. We the people of Somalia did not abuse SL. WE (as in the people of SL and Somalia) had a president who made mistakes. Yes he committed many atrocities against many groups of people, not just Somalilanders, but it was not the Somali people, so please naga dhaaf this old argument. It is this ongoing cuqdad that cannot be overcome and therefore we should part.

[Ace of Spadez]

This is the crux of the problem you and every unionist like to reduce the issue down to one man, when it was systemic problem. Why do you think there was an attempted coup de tat in 1961? Why did Somaliland people either boycott the constitution in 1961 or return a no vote? There was abuse & neglect sister. In fact, abuse of power and denial of their basic rights.

When two companies join and one of the two partners doesn't agree with the framework of how the company is to be managed but the other railroads it through and doesn't pay attention there is a significant problem. I know it is easy to just blame it on one man, but the political class of Somalia sought it fit to take all the power in 1960 as they did now in 2012 and has left Ahmed Ismail Samatar crying all the way to Minneapolis. Let us be fair sister. During democracy of 1960’s, during dictatorship of 70’s & 80’s, during the transition and even during this new "legitimate government", Somaliland has always not been represented. Unless you’d like to count the token members like Fowzia. Even Ali Khalif Galeydh couldn’t get any support to show that at least Somaliland got something. I don't see how you can defend this long record of inequality, so don't act surprised and dumbfounded that people realized maybe it is time they did for themselves and not wait for someone else far away. It actually seems to be working out.

 

You call it cuqdad, I call it someone doing some math. lol If i can earn more employed elsewhere, I'll take it. So far, the 22 years alone have been better off than 30 years with Somalia. Why mess with a situation like that? You’d understand unless you were blinding yourself. Maybe you should listen to Ahmed Ismail Samatar indicate he felt like a foreigner in Mogadishu. Ask him why he feels that way and if he has cuqdad.

[Rahima]

Perception sure is everything. Somalis from all regions have some kind of cuqdad, some more than others and when it reaches these levels it is better we go our separate ways.

 

Good luck with the new job, inshallah it goes well.

[Che -Guevara]

Ace, I just was referring to your 'photo with Obama' comment. While it may not have direct effect on the ground, it did give the Somali legitimacy it covets in some circles and for a poor African in conflict, that's huge. Let's see what other countries follow suit in particular Britain who will be according to them will be co-hosting the conference with Somalia in May. But at the end, what will make difference for Somalis atleast how Xasan's admin make use of this opportunity.

 

Rahima....I guess it's case work with you have, not what you like to have.

[Taleexi]

Che -Guevara;909560 wrote:

Alpha, for all we know, you are Tahir.

 

 

lol@XX, nagadaa dee. Somaliland keeps the South together. I guess you have not paying attention the last decades. The South is busy with itself, no time for anything else. You had 22 yrs to secure independence while the South was killing each other.

Like northerners are together

[somalee]

The best way forward is a federal republic with semi-autonomous states. It's an easier concept if the masses in Somaliland were to be convinced since full secession is not an option anymore. I don't care much for a diaspora, some of whom were away for half a century. Ama ingiriiska ku kor, ama Slovakia ku kor

[N.O.R.F]

Although some relevant points have been made regarding union or independence, no one has brought up ways on ‘how’ either could be achieved.

 

The Somaliland government has, at the moment, the ongoing (or not going) talks with Somalia as the only visible option for independence. The current admin has done a lot to trumpet Somaliland’s progress and it’s desire to be formally recognized as an independent country. However, it seems as though there are just too many cooks in the admin all talking about the same thing (independence) as well as a lack of a clear strategy / vision.

 

Somalia isn’t really at a stage to talk to Somaliland so will delay proper talks for another year or two. Again, there doesn’t seem to be a strategy that appeals firstly to the Somaliland people then the current admin.

 

In addition, I doubt we have leaders with enough intellect to realise that this is a question of compromise. Pride will get in the way, the media will stir things up, the elders will stay schtum and the people will be lead down a path that will offer very little for their future.

What will be a good compromise for all?

 

Personally, I believe that as long as Somaliland puts measures in place to ensure it’s people won’t have to face the same issues/problems they did under Barre and convinces it’s people these measures will work and act as a deterrent, there may be scope for reconciliation. An equipped military, peace deals between the regions, a mechanism for airing people’s and regional admin grievances, a level of influence in Xamar etc. People may listen. A level of trust will need to be established before any of this can happen.

 

Before any of this happens though all avenues for independence will be exhausted. Again, I doubt the current Somaliland admin has the level of influence and guile required to achieve anything more than lip service from EU, UK,UN etc

[Rahima]

N.O.R.F;910186 wrote:

A level of trust will need to be established before any of this can happen.

Couldn't agree more but do you actually think that this can be achieved? When the young child who has never laid eyes on the Horn is indoctrinated with distrust what hope is there?

 

My father was targeted by the Barre regime, personally targeted to the point that he was in hiding for some time- thanks to corruption though he fled Somalia on a government scholarship to further his studies in the UK,lol. That said though NORF i knew that it was the fault of a regime and not the average person who happens to share a lineage with the old man (AUN). My mother was in Gaalkacyo when it was bombed by the government, yet again i don't blame others, just the regime. Now i realise the situation was much worse in Hargeysa, in terms of the bombings but nonetheless very few were safe- hallmark of a dictatorship really. SL was not the only region that was neglected, many others were but what i can never understand is why is there this fixation by some to re-write history, to change it to a systematic targeting of only Somalilanders? How do we overcome that should be the primary question.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

I agree with rahima but i add the trust died in 1961 norf point would have made sense in the early 90s

Now the people of sl have seen it all i dont think nor the govt of sl can make such a turn point nor do they have the mandate. Somaliland was done wrong once which was making a union with somalia. Do it again the people of sl are screwed for life.

Its not that there is an anit somalia sentiment but they just mean somethings are better to be forgotten.

You will be dealing with a whole new generation who view somalia as a country that hindered somaliland right to exist. The old generation is different the new generation are the one that cant relate to somalia

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

The thing is the old generation of sl they lived worked with somalia interact for 30 years

The new new generation had zero social interaction with the people of somalia keep in mind they dont live in the west like most of us where people are neighbors. All they know about somalia is that they live in somalia and there was big war between sl and somalia. They dont how how the koonfurians act work if they are nice or not All they know is that somalia has anti somaliland senitment

[Taleexi]

If every clan can have its own state is the bitter bill that we Somalis need to manage to swallow; if else, Somalia shall remain one country. No one clan will ever be able determining another clan's destiny thus, SL is a clan project that has almost a zero chance of securing an international recognition with the consideration of all the empirical facts on the ground. There are many methods of addressing ethnic conflicts where mutual trust of the fractured societies can be restored, should we decide to live together, perhaps those models could be useful.

[RedSea]

Soomaaliya has a long way to go before we can trust them to be serious partners. There are alot of stuff that need urgent attention inside Mogadishu and The South.

[Che -Guevara]

Nagadaa Xaaji, this 'new generation' thinks Somalis have hooves for feet and horns on their head lool

[N.O.R.F]

Oodweyne;910232 wrote:

It is refreshing to see the slow striptease of an accumulated garb in which some in here are doing so that their "true" ideological disposition is gently gently reveal. In other words, reread with scrutinising eye the essence of what blessed had to say in this argument, which was that of somaliland settling for a third way because according to her we do not rule our territories completely.

 

Or perhaps one should reread our very own Norf and see his clever by half formulation of saying that somaliland must settle for some sort of regional federation with somalia even if he does not say so in open and brave way.

 

All in all, as I have said it is revealing political striptease to say the least.

Oh really?

 

I haven't said anything new here Oody. Somaliland is stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment. Let's at least be realistic about that. I'm trying to arrive at the best solution for Somaliland when the talks are exhausted (I doubt you think anything will come from them). Call it strip tease but I call it realism. So what happens next?

 

Rahima, qofku marku dudo miyaan la sasabin?