Hypothetical assumption of what if somalia remained. peaceful vs the civil war..intellectual debate

[Tallaabo]

Alpha Blondy;902231 wrote:

^ i'm sorry but i wouldn't exchange the life experiences i had in england to be stuck in some IMF-indebted 'Mozambique' of Africa. you see the opportunities and experiences i had in the UK give me the upper hand over the local somalilanders. i have NO VALUE without brandishing my passport every 56 minutes in their faces like a wasteman and speaking 5 words of english for every 2.75 words of somali - eg:

waar dadkan are bloody lazy and lack basic humanity ma istiri?

, i cease to exist and have NO VALUE at all. the thought of turning out to be some of the individuals i've see in somaliland, shocks the different sections of my mental capacities... ruunti. a donkey cart biyoleh, a late shift taxi driver whose mind has been addled by khat addiction, a corrupt low ranking government official, a tourist operator whose never set foot outside the country but who speaks private-tuition paid for American-English, a cheesy internationalist off-shore oil executive whose been as far as Dubai. NO THANKS! WAR IS GOOD! GREED IS GOOD! POWER FOR THE 1% ONLY!

[Tallaabo]

Alpha Blondy;902146 wrote:

i agree! that's why i use the term

'the troubles'

to sum up the years between 1977 to 1991/1993 and the disintegration of Somali structures. its all the same and we all had a role to play in the various civil wars. NO particular group suffered more or less than the other.

 

what's the way forward Tal?

 

do you think truth and reconciliation conferences are the way?

Truth and reconciliation conferences will not work for most Somalis. Such conferences will only produce more of the same tribal politics, over simpified formulas, and worthless marfish politicians. Personally, I am of the opinion that given Somaliland which until recently was the best hope in the Somali speaking World, has descended into tribal fiasco, the Somali people are totally incapable of giving up tribalism and adopting meaningful democracy. So I came to the conclusion that the only way forward for the Somali people is:

1.To strip the right to be in government from all the major clans, meaning all the 4 clans will have no say in the country's affairs and only the 0.5 will rule.

2. Dismantle all the post 1991 political entities and bring back the previous 18 states of the former republic. These 18 states will become federal states.

3. Each federal state will have within it autonomous districts with its own elected government, more like the councils in the UK. And each federal state will have an elected governor and parliament.

4. All the citizens and residents of the country will be given a biometric ID card which will also be used for voting, banking, and accessing social security. Each person should be able to vote only in the state and district of his/her residence and only once. If they move address they will have to register again to vote in their new location but will loose the right to vote in their previous location of residence. This means each person will only vote once wherever in the country they are.

5. Each federal state will elect a number of representatives according to their population (using the database of the biometric ID system) for a federal parliament in Mogadishu which will have legislative powers.

5. The smallest minority clans in the country (the 0.5 in the absurd formula) will be allowed to elect all the members of the Senate for the federal government. The senate will have the power to scrutinise all the legislation coming from the lower house.

6. The senate made only of members of our minority clans will appoint a lifetime constitutional king or queen from among their people. The monarch will then appoint his/her majesty’s government made of a premier and ministers on a five year term basis. All members of the government will be from the minority clans and all must be highly educated and capable.

This way Alpha, there will be no power struggle between the troublesome four big tribes and with tribal politics out of the way, Somalis can get on with their lives and compete with the wider world not only with each other.

[Alpha Blondy]

Tallaabo via Apophis;902497 wrote:

By Tallaabo:

 

Truth and reconciliation conferences will not work for most Somalis. Such conferences will only produce more of the same tribal politics, over simpified formulas, and worthless marfish politicians. Personally, I am of the opinion that given Somaliland which until recently was the best hope in the Somali speaking World, has descended into tribal fiasco, the Somali people are totally incapable of giving up tribalism and adopting meaningful democracy. So I came to the conclusion that the only way forward for the Somali people is:

 

1.To strip the right to be in government from all the major clans, meaning all the 4 clans will have no say in the country's affairs and only the 0.5 will rule.

 

2. Dismantle all the post 1991 political entities and bring back the previous 18 states of the former republic. These 18 states will become federal states.

 

3. Each federal state will have within it autonomous districts with its own elected government, more like the councils in the UK. And each federal state will have an elected governor and parliament.

 

4. All the citizens and residents of the country will be given a biometric ID card which will also be used for voting, banking, and accessing social security. Each person should be able to vote only in the state and district of his/her residence and only once. If they move address they will have to register again to vote in their new location but will loose the right to vote in their previous location of residence. This means each person will only vote once wherever in the country they are.

 

5. Each federal state will elect a number of representatives according to their population (using the database of the biometric ID system) for a federal parliament in Mogadishu which will have legislative powers.

 

6. The smallest minority clans in the country (the 0.5 in the absurd formula) will be allowed to elect all the members of the Senate for the federal government. The senate will have the power to scrutinise all the legislation coming from the lower house.

 

7. The senate made only of members of our minority clans will appoint a lifetime constitutional king or queen from among their people. The monarch will then appoint his/her majesty’s government made of a premier and ministers on a five year term basis. All members of the government will be from the minority clans and all must be highly educated and capable.

 

This way Alpha, there will be no power struggle between the troublesome four big tribes and with tribal politics out of the way, Somalis can get on with their lives and compete with the wider world not only with each other.

i agree. particularly the security measures being the number one priority!

[Haatu]

What was that famous reer waqooyi poem lamenting on Siyaad's empowerment of laangaab?

[Haatu]

Late teens actually. Besides, I read a lot. What are you suggesting you thirty-something year old?

[Haatu]

Apophis;902570 wrote:

War firii bal. A 1st of January kid/man is accusing me of being old

 

I'm the same age as my main Oba

 

And BS to reading a lot. No *teenager* would know about reer waqoyi lamenting about siyad and laangaab, whatever that means lool

This teenager does because he read a biography on Siyaad Barre (woefully written, more about Somalia than the man). I learnt about laangaab and laandheer right here on SOL. One reason why I like this site (Killed two birds with one stone there )

 

My b-day is in September.

[Haatu]

And you're just bitter

[NGONGE]

^^ You would have got away with it if claimed to be twenty five and over. But you had to be greedy and say you're a teen, didn't you? Bax warya!

 

p.s.

 

The man talking to you claims to be in London but he's always here at ungodly hours and I bet he's fluent in at least one other European langauge (you could say it's his mother tongue in fact).

[Tallaabo]

Haatu;902551 wrote:

What was that famous reer waqooyi poem lamenting on Siyaad's empowerment of laangaab?

I don't know much about poems but yes Northerners are the worst culprits when it comes to discrimination. At some point they were almost Pharaohnic in their treatment of our laangaab brothers. And Siyaad was right to empower the laangaab. [Laangaab: tribes with short lineages .i.e., minorities. Laandheer has the opposite meaning.(translation is for Apo)].

[Haatu]

Ngonge, war I am 18. Why is it so hard to believe? As for his whereabouts, he does live in london, in fact he lives a good 5 min walk from my house!

 

Tallaabo, no sh*t Sherlock, thank you for stating the obvious jk But honestly though it was a sadly funny poem.

[Wadani]

SNM, SSDF and USC have ruined my life and the life of every single Somali on the face of this earth. We are a people best described by the title of Franz Fanon's book 'The Wretched of the Earth'. The storming of Villa Somalia in 1991 by the USC hordes was equivalent to the destruction of the temple in jerusalem by the Romans in 70 A.D; both events led an indigenous people to scatter around the far reaches of the earth and start from scratch amongst alien and often times antagonistic cultures. But the Jews are a more sophisticated people than the somalis, and have not allowed their dispersal to lead to social and cultural disintegration, as is occuring at a dizzying rate among the Somali diaspora, and to a lesser extent back home. The Kacaan/M.O.D regime was far from perfect....but it gave us our rightful place in this God forsaken world. It gave us dignity, pride and faith in ourselves and our nation; things that r a requisite for the survival and success of any people, and unfortunately such sentiments among the Somalis have taken fatal blows.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Siyaad had to go 21 to years dictatorship was to much for the Somali people what came after him lets just say it was mother nature.

[Wadani]

Xaaji r u serious?? U'd rather have the status quo post 1991 than siyaad barre? We r currently the lowest denominator amongst humanity in almost every measure. We are nothing more than Gypsies. This is not what I want for my people, nor do i think the leaders of the jabhads wanted this either. None of them would have rebelled if they knew what they know now, but would have found other means and methods to achieve their political objectives.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Stop being so dramatic sure lots of things went wrong many people fought but at the end of the day dictatorship is never the solution you cannot dictate people and force them to submit for so many years. People will revolt and take their rights if not diplomatically militarily obviously there were many mistakes by the rebel leaders but Somalia is emerging now Mogadishu is back to normal people are rebuilding their homes Puntland and the middle regions have seen lots of development. the future of Somalis is not in a sorrow predicament i am sure no one wants the return of the dictator not in Somaliland and not in Somalia. The former Somali republic the last 10 years we were living out of hand outs our militarily was rotten from with in by tribalism and it was at the point of crippling because with the war with Ethiopia. If General siyad bare in 1979 held elections the Somali republic could have been saved and the war could have been avoided. But he held on so long that the people forcefully removed him from power. No son i do not want to go back to the 80s i rather have my break away Somaliland republic where i am in peace with the people and the land and i am sure Somalia and its people are not calling for dictatorship.

[Wadani]

I also love the peace, freedoms and relative tranquility we enjoy in Somaliland. Im a Somalilander myself, and from the clan who first inhabited Hargaysa. But we dont live in a vacuum and somaliland isn't an isloated island. Regardless of where u go, as a Somali u r preceded by the tarnished and utterly soiled image of our once great people. It hurts being seen as scum by the rest of the world when we are capable of so much. We are intelligent, entreprenuerial, creative, bold and daring. We have so many good and redeeming qualities, if not our ruined reputation on the world stage wouldn't bother me so much. Let's just hope we can rehabilitate the Somali name in the coming decades.