Hypothetical assumption of what if somalia remained. peaceful vs the civil war..intellectual debate

[Haatu]

looool how could I forget And what would you have been, CID?

[somalee]

I don't think the civil war was a blessing in disguise. I don't share your sentiments. Maybe there would've been a peaceful transition after Barre was ousted. Maybe Somalia would've been strong in terms of military, and maybe oil-rich. The next FB inventor etc you spoke of would easily have been that child who starved to death in the 90s or that hardworking student whose life was brutally cut short.

We've been homeless for 20 years, that's no blessing.

[Tallaabo]

OdeyJacfar;901887 wrote:

This is my theory..if Somalia remained it wouldve went through political exchanges. In 1990 Somalia's literacy rate was around 30%. There were just handful universities and it wouldve only have grown just few more universities. It wouldve had command economy. It wouldv had stunted economical growth. We wouldve had lack of exposure to the world bc the Somali passport wouldve been limited.

 

 

 

 

 

What has the civil war brought us. We got atleast 200k respected college's education. With another 1.1 million literate folks in the diapora. Even Islaamaha can read atleast and understand langues like English, Swedish, Dutch, Norwegian and etc. We got highly educated young people who are ready to inject new economical ideas. We got the next fb inventor. We got the next instagram inventor. We can travel througout the world to bring new products to the country. We also gona have economist, political scientists, entertainers, leaders, and etc.

 

 

Therefore...I ask that u compare and contrast.. Was the civil war a blessing in disguise?

You should be more specific with your question. The former Somali Republic went through a number of significant civil wars on different occasions in its short political history. To a varying degree each one of them had consequences not just for the stability of the military government in power but also for the integrity of the country. So in order to get more meaningful discussion from SOLers, point out which civil war you think should not have happened.

[Tallaabo]

Apophis;902123 wrote:

Brown and green sxb

 

Admin Police

 

What are they doing?? They look ridiculous!!

[Alpha Blondy]

Tallaabo;902136 wrote:

You should be more specific with your question. The former Somali Republic went through a number of significant civil wars on different occasions in its short political history. To a varying degree each one of them had consequences not just for the stability of the military government in power but also for the integrity of the country. So in order to get more meaningful discussion from SOLers, point out which civil war you think should not have happened.

i agree! that's why i use the term 'the troubles' to sum up the years between 1977 to 1991/1993 and the disintegration of Somali structures. its all the same and we all had a role to play in the various civil wars. NO particular group suffered more or less than the other.

 

what's the way forward Tal?

 

do you think truth and reconciliation conferences are the way?

[Khadafi]

What kind of question is this? The civil war has been positive for somalis? In general I would say NO! Masses of chat-addicted thugish somalis with ak-47, starvation and of-course the total dis-integration of the somali state structures?

 

Look at Kenya, they didnt have a civil war and they do not have a massive diaspora kenyans living abroad. Despite this Kenya is today somewhat of a success story. Its not perfect but hey It's Africa. Some somali famillies are even moving from the west to settle in Nairobi.

[Alpha Blondy]

^ i'm sorry but i wouldn't exchange the life experiences i had in england to be stuck in some IMF-indebted 'Mozambique' of Africa. you see the opportunities and experiences i had in the UK give me the upper hand over the local somalilanders. i have NO VALUE without brandishing my passport every 56 minutes in their faces like a wasteman and speaking 5 words of english for every 2.75 words of somali - eg: waar dadkan are bloody lazy and lack basic humanity ma istiri?, i cease to exist and have NO VALUE at all. the thought of turning out to be some of the individuals i've see in somaliland, shocks the different sections of my mental capacities... ruunti. a donkey cart biyoleh, a late shift taxi driver whose mind has been addled by khat addiction, a corrupt low ranking government official, a tourist operator whose never set foot outside the country but who speaks private-tuition paid for American-English, a cheesy internationalist off-shore oil executive whose been as far as Dubai. NO THANKS! WAR IS GOOD! GREED IS GOOD! POWER FOR THE 1% ONLY!

[SomaliPhilosopher]

It is easy to say to coin the civil war as a blessing in disguise from your comfortable suburbia with your high speed internet. Why don't you ask the millions of Somalis who did not escape the country and have witnessed bloodshed and poverty for over twenty years if this civil war was a 'blessing in disguise'

[SomaliPhilosopher]

=OdeyJacfar;901887]. Islaamaha can read atleast and understand langues like English, Swedish, Dutch, Norwegian and etc.

What about the more popular languages such as Swahili, Arabic, Amharic. All the languages you listed are tongues of the white man.

 

OdeyJacfar;901887 wrote:

. We also gona have economist, political scientists, entertainers, leaders, and etc.

Before the civil war, we had political scientists, economists, entertainers, leaders.... Though this argument has neglected these attributes because they were created in Somalia by Somalis. Because for these things to 'obviously' have any merit whatsoever and to be even considered a 'blessing' is for it to be interrelated with the west, courtesy of the civil war.

[GaraadMon]

I think describing any war as 'good' is strange, the term that should be used instead is 'silver lining'. War = Bad, Silver-lining = learning from past mistakes and utilizing our diverse experiences in our new countries. Then again, not all is great with Western Somalis and I'd argue that Somalis who went abroad before the war made better use of their time in developed nations.

[Alpha Blondy]

D/P

[Alpha Blondy]

Alpha Blondy;902231 wrote:

^ i'm sorry but i wouldn't exchange the life experiences i had in england to be stuck in some IMF-indebted 'Mozambique' of Africa. you see the opportunities and experiences i had in the UK give me the upper hand over the local somalilanders. i have NO VALUE without brandishing my passport every 56 minutes in their faces like a wasteman and speaking 5 words of english for every 2.75 words of somali - eg:

waar dadkan are bloody lazy and lack basic humanity ma istiri?

, i cease to exist and have NO VALUE at all. the thought of turning out to be some of the individuals i've see in somaliland, shocks the different sections of my mental capacities... ruunti. a donkey cart biyoleh, a late shift taxi driver whose mind has been addled by khat addiction, a corrupt low ranking government official, a tourist operator whose never set foot outside the country but who speaks private-tuition paid for American-English, a cheesy internationalist off-shore oil executive whose been as far as Dubai. NO THANKS! WAR IS GOOD! GREED IS GOOD! POWER FOR THE 1% ONLY!

i won't edit nor delete this for the sake of free speech but what the hell are we all doing speculating and philosophising such elapsed but also present realities. wars happen, people die and but we MUST move on. life goes on living and shouldn't be turned into a philosophical discussion. let's look forward but let's also not trivialise the past.

 

i leave you to ponder on these lyrics. good night.

 

 

 

Every generation

Blames the one before

And all of their frustrations

Come beating on your door

 

I know that I'm a prisoner

To all my Father held so dear

I know that I'm a hostage

To all his hopes and fears

I just wish I could have told him in the living years

 

Crumpled bits of paper

Filled with imperfect thoughts

Stilted conversations

I'm afraid that's all we've got

 

You say you just don't see it

He says it's perfect sense

You just can't get agreement

In this present tense

We all talk a different language

Talkin' in defense

 

Say it loud, say it clear

You can listen as well as you hear

It's too late when we die

To admit we don't see eye to eye

 

So we open up a quarrel

Between the present and the past

We only sacrifice the future

It's the bitterness that lasts

 

So Don't yield to the fortunes

You sometimes see as fate

It may have a new perspective

On a different date

And if you don't give up, and don't give in

You may just be O.K.

 

Say it loud, say it clear

You can listen as well as you hear

It's too late when we die

To admit we don't see eye to eye

 

I wasn't there that morning

When my Father passed away

I didn't get to tell him

All the things I had to say

 

I think I caught his spirit

Later that same year

I'm sure I heard his echo

In my baby's new born tears

I just wish I could have told him in the living years

 

Say it loud, say it clear

You can listen as well as you hear

It's too late when we die

To admit we don't see eye to eye

 

Say it loud, say it clear

Say it loud

Don't give up

Don't give in

And don't know what you can do next

[Haatu]

fuley waaxid. Why did you edit your other post?

[OdeyJacfar]

A lot of you are stuck with the civil war matter. Civil war is a reality that evidently happened and one we cannot dwell in it.

 

Those who claim that we had "economist", scientist, engineers, and etc before the war fail to realise that these were few elite group of people out of 5 million people(1990 pop).

 

The number of people that wouldve been experts on differewnt fields of persuation without the civil up to this date wouldve been emensely small for a nation of 10 mill as opposed to the experts that we have thanks to the education we've received from these prestigious Universities where even kings and queens send their children to. Therefore the greatest outcome from the civil war (if we can set aside the million dead from the civil war) is that we have under our disposal great masses of Somalis that have been enlightened.

[somalee]

OdeyJacfar;902289 wrote:

Therefore the greatest outcome from the civil war (if we can set aside the million dead from the civil war) is that we have under our disposal

great masses of Somalis that have been enlightened

.

Amongst these great masses are atheists, homosexuals, gangs, religious fanatics etc. What about the hundreds of Somalis who will never come back because they belonged to a minority and despised sub-clan, and those Somalis who won't just come back again because they lost everything in the war and have nothing to come back to. We've lost lots of Somalis to the west that will never set foot in Somalia again. We're a small nation who can't afford to lose such a huge amount of human resources.

 

All these wouldn't have happened if there wasn't a civil war and the two decades of madness that followed.