Kenya: Garissa residents shot after army launches crackdown

[Jacpher]

Apo: Is it upsetting that I made the connecting dots from the article you posted which you wanted to show us how savagely Kenyan army acts towards their citizen as is done in Garissa. And as the article mentions, people looked to else where for answers, UN Human rights and the Int. Court in Hague. So in essence your point was people file their grievance in the Hague and Human Rights Organization. So we need Kofi Anan to represent these poor voiceless community in Garissa.

[NGONGE]

^^ That's more like it. You should have led with that really.

[Jacpher]

Ngonge: No it ain't more like it. This is a remote small separate villages and the police didn't go to elementary school and shot students as they wait to go into exams. That's what's happened in Garissa.

 

Apo: You're finally showing us your true colors. Kenyan army goes on a rampage and shoots down Somali students, one student got shot in front of his class. Who cares. No biggie. 'Somalis are lucky they're getting news time'

[Haatu]

Apo, so calling the Kenyans that killed people in Garissa savages is racism miyaa? You're a CID put up, iska sheeg sxb

[NGONGE]

Jacpher;891658 wrote:

Ngonge: No it ain't more like it. This is a remote small separate villages and the police didn't go to elementary school and shot students as they wait to go into exams. That's what's happened in Garissa.

 

Apo: You're finally showing us your true colors. Kenyan army goes on a rampage and shoots down Somali students, one student got shot in front of his class. Who cares. No biggie.

'Somalis are lucky they're getting news time'

Don't bite my head off warya. He is making a point here and has given an example of his point that seemed to be out of date, I attracted his attention to it. He brought a more recent example. I say that's more like it, even if you don't. Wax fahan.

 

As for what's happening in Garissa, it's an internal Kenyan issue. Somalis should be taking it up with the lovely Farah, or his amazing son or the defence minister himself. Apo says they're lucky to be getting news time but I say they're luckier than any Somali that may happen to be treated in this way inside Somalia itself (at least here, these guys have representatives in the government; Somalis in Somalia who get trampled on in such a way are usually the small clans that have no backing). Naga daaya dee.

[Jacpher]

^LOL

 

The lovely Farah and the amazing defence minister are no more than token positions. The real power in Kenya ain't in the hands of Somalis if their little ones get rampaged everytime a suspect kills army police. At least Somalis in Somalia are luckier because they know they don't have a mirage government telling them we got your back. Somalis in Garissa are few centimeters ahead in terms of peace and security than those in Somalia with over two decades of brutal clannish civil war. What an amazing accomplishment.

[tutu]

Apophis, before I start, give us your objective view of KDF's actions in Garissa, please.

 

The deployment of KDF in Samburu where over 40 policemen were killed had no repercussion on the citizens there as the case was in Garissa. No rape. No looting. No economic crippling. They only do patrols. And are you aware of how the Turkana's leaders' reacted just because the army was deployed there? They're already in court and pursuing the issue in Parliament. And one of them is the assistant minister of internal security of Kenya, yes Kenya just as Yussuf. Yet he had the guts. They're, justifiably, going for Haji's throat in court since he directs KDF. And that's why we never see a picture of KDF presence in Samburu/Turkana now.

 

It's only in Mt Elgon that KDF's wrath was felt and that was because they faced well trained and armed-to-the-teeth groups unlike Garissas' unarmed women and children. Their operation in Mt Elgon followed the rightful procedures that the law demands when an army is to be involved in a domestic matter. Was Garissa's case?

 

Anyway you seem confused and hardly aware of the political strings in Kenya. Know the facts before misleading those who hardly follow Kenya and its goings (like Ngonge (swahili name?) who superficially bought your dregs). I am referring to your article on KDF's deployment in Samburu.

 

Yes, Haji is the defence of Kenya which means KDF comes under him. We can, therefore, safely say, he ordered the attacks.

 

Yes, Garissa's people are his people as Rift valley's are Ruto's. Have you ever experienced Kenyas' political rallies? From Kibaki to Haji...the motto is my people this, my people that. And to enlighten you, nepotism is Kenya's grand motto! Officially embraced by all institutions. So favoritism has the blessing of all, from Kimemia to the local councilor. It is how you achieve development in Kenya (I thought you'll be familiar with this since you're obsessed with Kenya's politics or was it only a Kismayo-induced infatuation). It's institutionalized! So it wouldn't be confined to Somalis, were they to be favored.

 

Haji's political record is anyway not impressive even in his constituency as his constituents would attest. Odeygu wa retiree, wuu iska xoogsanayaa moyee:)

[tutu]

Apophis;891665 wrote:

This is what I mean when I say the Somalis are, relatively speaking, lucky. When the Turkana are dealt with more harshly than this you can be sure there won't be any debate or investigation on the matter. Get some perspective yaaqey

 

 

 

Inteed ku aragtey Turkanas been dealt harshly by KDF save for the reportings of KDF deployment? People had potential fears but nothing occurred.

 

And Turkana's case is hotter than Garissa's both in parliament and outside it. I am time-restraint to dig for related news but check either K24, KTN or NTV's youtube pages and you'll get plenty on Nanok and Munyes' fight for Turkana's people (these are their elected leaders). Nanok (South Turkana's MP) spent a weekend in jail for utterances that were deemed 'hate speech' towards Kibaki's government but acquited by the court today. He is, ironically, an assistant minister. He's suing the same government now.

 

The 2 minutes of Aden Barre's calaacal in parliament today yeysan kusirin. That is it, I tell you. But it'll take years for Garissa to recover from the economic downfall it experienced this week.

[tutu]

And parliamentary committees and commission of inquiries...So sweet to hear that! So little do you know of Kenya's history with commission of inquiries. From Ouko's to Anglo-leasing to Kiplagat's. We know all about it. FYI the judiciary are rising to the fore lately (after the new constitution), and is the way to go.

 

I await backup on your claim of Turkana's recent atrocities by KDF, because as adutiful followers of Kenyas' news, I can't recall seeing something in that line.

[tutu]

Apophis;891692 wrote:

To me it looks likes units of the KDF broke the law and attacked the citizens & property they swore to protect. It's a criminal action and I'm sure in time the ring leaders and their squadies will be dealt with accordingly

.

 

It doesn't look like but KDF have broken the law and justice will, hopefully, prevail.

 

 

 

OK. I think the Somalis should also go to court to recieve compensation for property and suffering

Granted you've acknowledged your fabricated claims of Turkana's torture. Kenyan Somalis are on the line of pursing justice through the courts.

 

 

 

Your assertion implies the KDF was ordered to attack Garissa. What's your evidence?

Have you heard of a soldier without orders? Except in mutiny. Were there any claims of mutiny in Garissa's case? Why are you inclined to believe so? Can you prove they were not ordered? Haji, is his interview, said there are provincial committees that can exercise orders for such swoops but of course with the blessing of a parliamentary decision and the defense ministry. Only the parliament can grant such permissions. Listen to today's Farah Maalim's explanation on what the law says on the domestic use of the army.

 

 

 

It wasn't my article, it's from the BBC

.

 

The article didn't mention any mistreatment inflicted on the ordinary man in North Rift.

 

 

 

No we cannot. As of now, there's no evidence that what happened in Garissa was a planned and ordered operation

We can't prove the opposite too, ain't it?

[tutu]

Marka you've to appreciate the fact that KDF operated without following the procedural requirement for such operations. And worst yet they didn't go after small units of people or suspects but went after women and children iyagoo ugeystay gross atrocities economically, physically and phsycologically.

[Che -Guevara]

Apo's argument: expect this sort thing from an Áfrican regime but somehow that same regime will address its crimes.

[tutu]

Apophis;891699 wrote:

What are you comparing Kenya with? Because I look at it and compare the situation to the rest of Africa and when you do that you come to the conclusion that for an African country, Kenya is alright. It could be worse, this we know. Put it in the right context

I would, reluctantly, give in on this. Compared to some African countries, we're far off. But operations such as this week's dents Kenya's image as a growing democracy in a ruined region and drags the country 20-30 yrs back. Kenya's' political pundits acknowledge and have voiced their anger and concern over KDF's action. They strongly condemn and fear Kenya's reputation on the international scene have already been blistered.

 

 

 

I have no evidence but I think it is pretty revealing that the locals choose to flee ahead of the KDF'S arrival. What does that tell you?

It tells of potential fears that didn't materialize. KDF exercised restraint in Turkana (btw they're still there, and hardly do we hear a word about their presence) fully knowing they've bypassed parliament's authority and seemingly agreed to calm down. And they're being taken to court for their mere presence iyagoon waxba geysan. Compare their conduct to that of Garissa and tell me if you don't smell selective methods being used for certain sects of the society.

[tutu]

Soldiers without uniform is predicated mainly on orders given in a rush. The police that came to the rescue of Eastleigh wore no uniform and they had their OCS/OCPDs' (those who command them) with them. What does it tell you? They were on their own volition just because they had no uniform?

 

All indications indicate that the soldiers in Garissa were ordered whether whimsical or planned. But was it a calculated move? Was it in order despite the killings? What about the 40 policemen killed in Turkana? Why no one revenged for them? Some of their decomposed bodies are still strewn in the valley.

 

What do you think would've happened If, hypothetically speaking, those 40 policemen were killed in North Eastern? Inhumane actions on grand scale would've taken place, without doubt.

[tutu]

I thought you had more in you. Are you from Gsa?