The deep-rooted problems within Somali society.

[DoctorKenney]

Alpha Blondy;881904 wrote:

Dr. Keeney,

 

an excellent, timely and thought provoking thread I must say. i completely agree with you. things have to change and when you've reached the lowest depths of the abyss, the only way is up my brother. we must do ALL we can to find solutions to the problems that hinder the collective will of our people. right now, the priorities as you've already mentioned must be put on security and stability.

 

i'm sure you're familiar with Hobbs notion of High and Low Politics. Somali politics, particularly Somalia has been based on High Politics and issues to do with sovereignty- although there is a lack of sovereignty as Somalia has developed a tendency to inviting external forces in aiding the threat of islamic radicals. in terms of security, there appears to be intermittent periods of security and no functioning internal security apparatus etc!. thus Somalia's political landscape is not guided so much by general principles of existence by creating a peaceful and harmonious living for its citizens but a desire for the participants to survive politically in response to the changing circumstances. SECURITY is absolutely imperative and only through a strong internal security apparatus can the the next set of pre-conditions needed for a viable transitional towards development be achieved.

Brother, what we need is something more than just stability. We need to completely rearrange the Somali thought-process. Here in the United States--a stable country--the Somalis are still up to their silly games. They still adhere to the archaic tribal structure and they can't seem to get along based on this. The Somalis in Europe and Canada are no different.

 

In fact, there's the infamous example of the Somalis in Toronto, Canada. The D-Block and H-Block Somalis often even pray at different mosques, eat at different restaurants and marry within their own tribe.

 

As long as the Somalis think like this, we will forever be at Ethiopia and Kenya's mercy, and they would be able to divide our population and cause internal strife at will.

 

 

The minds of the older Somali generation is already corrupted. They're a lost generation. We could at least start working on the children.

[Alpha Blondy]

Yes, indeed.

 

Maybe we should create a society based on interest.

 

The political upheaval in Somalia peninsula during the 1980s and early 1990s saw hundreds of thousands of its citizens embark on mass migration from Somalia to the rest of the world. Today, the Somali population in exile has swelled to an unprecedented magnitude as a consequence of the civil wars, the subsequent political instabilities, combined with the environmental problems induced from the lack of governance. Many Somalis fled and departed to various parts of the World, most notably Western Europe, the vast majority of these migrants were refugees and asylum seekers. Somalis today are dispersed all over the world and this is testament to the resourcefulness and determination of the Somali people.

 

We live in a world dominated by interest where the vestiges of tribalism and other backward beliefs no longer determine the power of play. For this and many other reasons, we must take our rightful place alongside those who will lift the inhabitants of the Somali peninsula out of a place dominated by war, poverty and in-fighting.

 

Perhaps its time to put an end to this concept of greater Somalia, which is unreasonable and unrealistic and embrace the eventual and inevitable fragmentation of the Somali peninsula. By embracing the self-determination of different regions in Somalia peninsula, we will expand the Somali language, culture and expand the notion of ‘somaliness’ across and into new frontier. Whether or not we embrace these changes remains to be seen but one thing for certain: that the Somali peninsula will eventually fragment, the sooner we accept this fact, the better for our common brotherhood and anything less than a two-state solution would be rewarding to those who still enjoy the orgy of mass execution, systematic rape and other barbarous crimes against humanity.

 

Today, Somaliland provides the only face-saving exist strategy for the long standing conflict that is an outright reconfirmation of the 1960s internationally recognised independent state of Somaliland Republic, which will no doubt pave a way for a mutually and beneficially economic, diplomatic co-operation among the Somali speaking nations in the Horn of Africa. We need to establish a secular society, building a just, tolerant and modern society.

[DoctorKenney]

Why would the concept of Somaliweyn be unrealistic? It is very possible and it can be achieved inshallah....just not within the next century of course. However, politics is a long game. Nation-building is a long game. Germany didn't become a powerful and prosperous nation in one day.

 

If we embrace the self-determination of clan enclaves, this could lead to further problems down the road. It will certainly lead to armed conflict, such as the one which occurred between the Somaliland militia and the Puntland militia.

 

In Somaliland, the people of Awdal region as well as the people of Sool region and Sanaag region do not want to be a part of an independent Somaliland. Within Puntland, there are protests in cities such as Qardho, where many even want to secede from Puntland itself. Puntland today is less stable than it was 5 years ago. When you set up clan-based fiefdoms, what will eventually happen would be land-grabbing, border conflict between Somali federal states, and an extremely unstable Somalia.

 

We have to aim high as a people. And these are nothing more than band-aid solutions to serious problems

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Doctor Kenney i really have to say ur kind of naive u want to solve something but u are turning ur face away from the root cause of the problem distrust between the Somali communities clans and even at subclan level. Dibu heshisin is a word u heard the past 21 years by Somali politicians but it was never done ever in Somalia. There has not been a reconciliation conference in Somalia well they held several reconciliation conferences in nairobi addis djbouti Eritrea Yemen Egypt but non of them were a success. Civil war might be over Kenney but there distrust how do you solve that i ask you forget about a conference how are u willing to build bridges between the different communities.

[DoctorKenney]

I'll give you another example:

 

The Somali sub-clan which inhabits LasCanood. I can't name the sub-clan's name because it's against forum rules. But you get which clan I'm talking about.

 

You would think that they would agree with one another--after all they're from the same subclan. And don't Somali's think of themselves as their sub-clan instead of as Somalis?

 

 

Within this ONE sub-clan:

 

1. Some of them are pro-Somaliland. And they favor being part of an independent Somaliland.

 

2. Some of them are pro-Puntland. And they favor being part of an autonomous Puntland.

 

3. Some of them are labeled as "Reer Khaatumo'. And they favor Khaatumo being it's own Federal State.

 

4. Some of them are Unionist, and would like to see a structure similar to 1960's Somalia.

 

 

That's just ONE sub-clan, and they can't even agree on something as basic as this. This is common ALL across Somalia. Even within sub-clans, there are fierce disagreements and an inability to cooperate. How can any civil administration be possible in such an environment? Obviously, I am not making this personal to any clan at all, as I am technically a "member" of this sub-clan myself, even though I don't really care for these meaningless tribal labels and see myself only as a Somali.

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji Xunjuf;881959 wrote:

Doctor Kenney i really have to say ur kind of naive u want to solve something but u are turning ur face away from the root cause of the problem distrust between the Somali communities clans and even at subclan level. Dibu heshisin is a word u heard the past 21 years by Somali politicians but it was never done ever in Somalia. There has not been a reconciliation conference in Somalia well they held several reconciliation conferences in nairobi addis djbouti Eritrea Yemen Egypt but non of them were a success.

Civil war might be over Kenney but there distrust how do you solve that i ask you forget about a conference how are u willing to build bridges between the different communities.

Well if you actually read what I wrote earlier, I addressed all of this. The clan wars of the 1990's are long-over but that doesn't mean everything is alright again. How do you know these clan-wars won't be initiated again? Aren't the battles between Somaliland and Puntland forces nothing more than petty clan wars?

 

I don't care for some reconciliation conference. Conferences don't solve deep-rooted problems. Conferences have men who speak about a "United Somalia"....but behind closed doors they engage in tribal behavior.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^^ Not true Somaliland and Puntland are in a border dispute , puntland is claiming Somaliland territory because they believe some of the residents of the eastern sool and eastern sanaag region share a common tribal lineage with the Puntland tribe. You are correct maybe a conference will not solve everything but it will send a message that the past is the past and a new future is about to be constructed together.

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji Xunjuf;881976 wrote:

^^ Not true Somaliland and Puntland are in a border dispute ,

puntland is claiming Somaliland territory because they believe some of the residents of the eastern sool and eastern sanaag region share a common tribal lineage with the Puntland tribe

. You are correct maybe a conference will not solve everything but it will send a message that the past is the past and a new future is about to be constructed together.

You just proved one of my main points saaxib (what I underlined). No new Somali future can be constructed until we clean this problem out of our system. We need to do some deep soul-searching as a nation.

[Alpha Blondy]

DoctorKenney;881950 wrote:

Why would the concept of Somaliweyn be unrealistic? It is very possible and it can be achieved inshallah....just not within the next century of course. However, politics is a long game. Nation-building is a long game. Germany didn't become a powerful and prosperous nation in one day.

 

If we embrace the self-determination of clan enclaves, this could lead to

further problems

down the road. It will certainly lead to armed conflict, such as the one which occurred between the Somaliland militia and the Puntland militia.

 

In Somaliland, the people of Awdal region as well as the people of Sool region and Sanaag region do not want to be a part of an independent Somaliland. Within Puntland, there are protests in cities such as Qardho, where many even want to

secede

from Puntland itself. Puntland today is

less

stable than it was 5 years ago. When you set up clan-based fiefdoms, what will eventually happen would be land-grabbing, border conflict between Somali federal states, and an extremely unstable Somalia.

 

We have to aim high as a people. And these are nothing more than band-aid solutions to serious problems

waar i'm done discussing politics with you. you showed promise but your delusional and out of touch with the reality on the ground.

[DoctorKenney]

Alpha Blondy;881994 wrote:

waar i'm done discussing politics with you. you showed promise but your delusional and out of touch with the reality on the ground.

What did I say in the above post which is "delusional"? What's delusional is thinking that Somalia is quickly marching towards stability and progress--when clearly it isn't right now.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Doctor another question earlier u said u want a new Somaliweyn what do you consider Somaliweyn

 

 

 

 

 

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji Xunjuf;882014 wrote:

Doctor another question earlier u said u want a new Somaliweyn what do you consider Somaliweyn

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe in working towards Somaliweyn. The last 21 years of Civil War have made this concept almost irrelevant. However, I believe in working towards the implementation of a comprehensive nation-building program, and I don't think this program should simply be confined to South Central Somalia. This program can be implemented from Garissa to Bosaso to Jigjiga to Kismayo and everywhere in between. All Somalis suffer from this problem regardless of their clan affiliation or which passport they might hold. The Somalis of Jigjiga are technically Ethiopian citizens, and that's totally fine.

 

However, if true stability and peace does return to Somalia, and Somalia--over the course of a few generations--becomes a stable and prosperous state, then it's an entirely different ball game. I'm not advocating that the NFD and Eastern Ethiopia be annexed into Somalia. I don't even think it's possible, nor is it desirable. But perhaps regional integration can occur soon after and "national borders" between these Horn-African states grow to become irrelevant.

 

Either way, this "Somaliweyn" issue should be forgotten for now. It's not the time to talk of such issues. Obviously, I would prefer for all Somalis to be united under One Flag, but it's unrealistic and may even be counter-productive.... It's like advocating Somalia send men to outer-space when we can't even feed our own people!

 

What we can work on--at least in the next few decades--is to establish a strong, functioning Somali State. Everything else comes secondary.

[Somali philosopher]

^^ btw how and who do you think will come up with the bottom up nation building and implement it. Somalia needs a revolution but we are too uneducated and tribalistic to agree on a solution. I don't blame Somalis In Somalia for being tribalistic, qabil has been there for them when government wasn't. But I do for ppl in the diaspora

[Somali philosopher]

Xaaji Xunjuf;882014 wrote:

Doctor another question earlier u said u want a new Somaliweyn what do you consider Somaliweyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

That pic of Somalia without somaliland just looks WRONG

[DoctorKenney]

Somali philosopher;882065 wrote:

^^ btw how and who do you think will come up with the bottom up nation building and implement it. Somalia needs a revolution but we are too uneducated and tribalistic to agree on a solution. I don't blame Somalis In Somalia for being tribalistic, qabil has been there for them when government wasn't. But I do for ppl in the diaspora

That's the hard part. Finding like-minded, educated and dedicated Somali men to implement such a program. If you can find these individuals and get them on the same page, anything is possible.

 

I don't blame Somalis for being tribalist as well. They've lived their entire lives with that identity and in the absence of a strong Somali State they would understandably identify with their clan instead of their nation.