Raskambooni movement its not up to President Hassan to create a federal state for our regions.

[Chimera]

Apophis;877118 wrote:

Ok, you're an

idealist

and not a dreamer.

Since when is agreeing with a legitimate government stance towards a region internationally recognised as part of its jurisdiction as 'idealist'. I'm a 'realist', I observe patterns on the ground, and the current trend is a fast resurgent Somalia, one that is more robust than the prewar state.

 

Let them return then we can talk about it. Until then lets stick with what's happening on the ground

Not really, the government already has a good team, and they are sufficient for now, if our sovereignty is not respected.

 

My point was, international law and sovereignty are not set in stone. They can and have been sidestepped in favour of special interests. They are not as concrete as you think. Somalia is gaining friends but diplomatically speaking, it is nowhere near Kenya. Please understand that.

In this case, Kenya stands alone, nobody in their right mind in the international community will support one country over another with regards to the latter's domestic affairs, especially a government that is legitimate in their own eyes. This is not the situation of the NFD where the principle of upholding 'colonial borders' is unanimously agreed upon, this is a case where the Federal government does not want to be sidestepped in favour of a foreign state who recently was rehatted under a specific mandate of providing 'security' and not engage in 'state building'.

 

Western governments want the present Somali government to succeed but to think they'll sanction Kenya is....for the lack of a more diplomatic word, idealist.

If it disrupts the political process, then they will be deemed a 'spoiler' by the federal government. The latter only needs the weight of Turkey to give the complaint teeth, and Nairobi will sync its policy with that of Mogadishu. However Nairobi has advisers, and they aren't dumb. Good relations with the Federal government overrides any militia, or clan relationship.

 

The stakes held by western governments in Somalia are far outweighed by those in Kenya. This is plain and clear.

Outside of the Britain-Kenya relationship, Somalia was always the darling of the superpowers. Which country signed the first Soviet friendship treaty in Africa? ---> Somalia. Which country hosted the largest US embassy in the world? ----> Somalia. Which country became the first non-Arab country to join the Arab League? -----> Somalia. Which country enjoyed the biggest Chinese investment projects in Africa post-independence? -----> Somalia. We are more strategically located, have many important diaspora communities growing in political/lobbying influence, and the country is loaded with resources.

 

If you think Western or Eastern governments that want a piece of the pie will side with Kenya over a 'buffer zone' then your highly misinformed.

 

The Iran situation is clearly understandable (it's super powers posturing) and the other example is of minor significance.

US has major interests in Somalia, its no coincidence that the new government is giving 'priority' to the old American companies at the licencing fair for oil-concessions next year. The US will put its political weight behind Somalia in a scenario where the latter's sovereignty is undermined in this post-transition era.

 

To me the city is irrelevant, let it burn to the ground for all I care (it may actually be a blessing), I'm concerned with the region not just a dusty city.

Its an ancient city, with the only panamax port in the Indian Ocean south of Mogadishu until Tanzania. Kismayo has huge potential and must be managed carefully and with fairness.

 

The president gave the blessings for Hiiraan region to sort their own affairs, all I'm saying is let him extend the same courtesy to the war weary people in the Jubba. He knows not better than them.

Apples and oranges, and I have explained the difference between the two situations several times. The stake-holders would lose nothing from the Federal government's proposal, absolutely nothing. The people electing their own governor would still be the locals.

 

I'm aware of the "ulterior motives" ascribed to Kenya. But it doesn't seem very ulterior as they have stated clearly their intention to open negotiations with the national government. What you and every Somali has to understand is the hubris and madax adag of the 70s is long gone. We're on our knees and we should be looking for allies not making enemies everywhere.

I'm sorry, that's a non-sequitur; just because the Netherlands and France in the 1940s were on their knees, doesn't mean matters of sovereignty went suddenly out of the window when the allies landed on the beaches of Normandy. The matters of state were still firmly in the hands of their governments, regardless of the size of their destroyed militaries and eroded infrastructure.

 

This won't always be the reality for Somalia, for it isn't the reality for either France or Netherlands today.

 

I can use any word I like to describe the president, some will be positive, others will be negative (and likely expletive laden), so what? And yes, there's a lot of hate expressed in this forum for the KDF and praises for Uganda and the others. I'm just bringing balance. Besides, the KDF has a sizeable Somali elements and thus deserve our thanks for helping free their brothers. I see friends everywhere, you see enemies everywhere.

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy, however you're in your right to use the most profane terms in reference to the President, Pm, Speaker and the republic in general, but i'll be damned that I will accept your suggestion 'of being more objective' a moment latter

 

Not only do you predict the future but you can also read minds huh? What he will or won't do we don't know.

The onus is on you to provide evidence that he's a warmongering President, all I see is calls for dialogue, consultation and inclusive meetings on his part. That's a pattern, which allows a person to superimpose that on the future, and it gives you a view of what will most likely be his modus operandi for the rest of his term.

 

What exactly do you have to counter this?

[Ducaysane]

here is the score sofar.

 

Chimera 1

Apophis 0

[The Zack]

^ I disagree. It is 2:2 Apophis has more possession of the ball.

[Abwaan]

With all the Maleeshiyo la soo cunay and all the warlords gone haddan ma Raaskambooni iyo Axmed Madoobe ayaa u maleeyey inay spoilers noqon karaan oo hor-istaagi karaan isbeddelka Soomaaliya ka socda. They have been around Kismaayo for the last 2 years, tabar hadday leeyihiin maxay Shabaab uga xoraysan waayeen waa yaabe?

Jubbada Hoose waa degaan Soomaaliyeed and I do not understand waxa Nairobi maamul looga dhisayo. Waxaa habboon in magaalada Kismaayo shir lagu qabto oo halkaas aayaheeda looga tashto, dowladduna ay kaalin weyn ka qaadato sidii degaankan nabad iyo xasillooni loogu soo dabbaali lahaa.

[Ducaysane]

Abwaan

laakiin madaxweynaha makii uu Hiiraan joogay wuxuu yiri: dadka hiiraan ha tashadaan oo maamul ha samaystaan hadiii kale maamul kor looga keenay yaa u talinaya. Gobolada Jubooyinka iyo Gedo na wuxuu yiri anagaa maamul u dhisayna. xoogaa wax baa si ka ha logicgaas

[Chimera]

Apophis;877139 wrote:

Nothing realistic about anything you've said here; I don't know what evidence you have which isn't open to everyone else but I would like to see what supports your assertion of

" the current trend is a fast resurgent Somalia, one that is more robust than the prewar state

.

- A new constitution

 

- A new Parliament filled with educated men and women.

 

- A new responsible Speaker.

 

- A new President, with a good track-record.

 

- A new Prime-minister.

 

All in a single year, that's a bloody good trend for any African country my friend and all these institutions are more inclusive than the prewar government set up, hence its more robust.

 

A realistic observer would clearly see the federal republic will be much weaker and fragmented than the Socialist government.

I bet you would call the governments of Russia and the United States weak because of their governmental structure? Its clear that you misunderstood my point, a robust new Somalia is not how much power the President can wield, but how much power is vested in the hands of the citizens.

 

I have seen no evidence of this but I would be happy to review my position if you provide some.

See parliament, Phds galore.

 

You had to insert "in their own eyes" bit otherwise you know your statement is utter nonsense don't you?

Why would the west violate the sovereignty of a country that has ''in their eyes' a legitimately elected government, one which they support, and one that isn't hostile to them?

 

Logical fallacy on your part!

 

But still the statement is weak. If it's in the national interest of western governments to support Somalia over Kenya natural they will, but the opposite is also true. In my opinion the balance currently favours Kenya more than us. It's not a nice thing to hear but it's the truth. As the country settles and gets better this balance will likely shift but for now it is what it is.

In a country versus country scenario, even the thousand times smaller, Seychelles has a more favourable balance compared to Somalia in its current predicament. It would be hilarious however to suggest as the country comes back with a roar, that this will be the case forever. We have historic patterns on our side, which clearly show the opposite.

 

Yeah sure, the Turks will save the day (it's not like they're busy with other stuff near home). You seem to think Somalia has diplomatic clout similar to the pre-war levels and you call yourself a realist? International relations is much more complicated than you think.

Excuse me but was Somalia kicked out of all the organisations it helped found and joined, and I somehow didn't get the memo? Somalis are a force to be reckoned with when their minds are synchronised, and capacity building is currently in motion.

Cold war politics and posturing; doesn't apply any-more.

This century will be characterised by the Sino-US rivalry, both of which have vested interests in Somalia, that the Federal government can use to its own advantage.

 

If it did Somalia would not have been left to rot as soon as the Cold War came to a stop.A bit of humility wouldn't hurt.

Nonsense, the US still scrambled the largest UN mission in the early 1990s to rescue Somalia from the clutches of warlords. We F'd up by not using that opportunity.There is only so much a superpower can do without suffering a backlash at home.

 

I see no current "major interests" coming from the Americans and we'll have to wait and see about your second assertion.

You don't see it, or 'don't want to see it?' The Americans have been in this political game from the start, and for a good reason that is black and liquidy.

 

"Must be managed" in "fairness" the same words, no doubt, told to the people of the Niger Delta before being pasted into the oil highways direct to Lagos.

Are you insinuating I wish the people of Kismayo to be exploited? If not, are you insinuating that this is the Federal government's plan for the region?

 

What evidence do you have from my posting history or the policies of the government to support that?

 

Sxb there's no difference only idiotic excuses. To me what's offensive is the whole idea of one region being dictated to while others are left to themselves. It is utterly unacceptable. Why the double standards?. Why do you oppose the locals choosing their own destiny? I really do not understand your objections.

I don't see any double-standards.

 

- One the hand you have a region supported by a neighbouring country(Kenya) which was exposed by Wiki-leaks as having the intention to set up a 'buffer-state' and you have another region (Hiiraan) which is also supported by a neighbour(Ethiopia) but whose support is strictly military and not political.

 

- On the one hand you have one region that for more than two decades was hotly contested between rival clans, and you have another region that was dragged into instability only in last 6 years, and one that is ideological in nature at that. The former case is far more complex and much more of a potential powderkeg for the future.

 

- One the one hand you have a region that will be involved in a major sea-dispute with a neighbour, and on the other you have a region where there is no such dispute.

 

- On the one hand you have a region that hosts the biggest southernmost urban hub and Port-city of the republic, and the former HQ of the Somali Navy and on the other hand you have a region that is not as strategically important as the former.

 

As I said before there is absolutely nothing the locals lose from consulting with the Federal government, whose 'blessing' they need to legitimize any administration erected there.

 

We can only wish Somalia is in the same state as post war Europe for our problems wouldn't be half as bad as they're now.

LMAO, you clearly have no idea of the sheer destruction that post-war Europe had to deal with, on multiple levels, from demographics, to infrastructure, to politics. It took the Marshal-plan to raise them from the brink. At least we have multiple stable regions, major countries backing us today, and most of our most important infrastructure such as the road-network, panamax port, airports and cities need only a face-lift, rather than a total reconstruction -- which is only necessary in Mogadishu.

 

The Jubba initiative doesn't violate Somalia's sovereignty.

If the Federal government is sidestepped in favour of a foreign state, then that must be patriotism in your opinion!

 

What makes you think the people of the region love the country any less than you do?

What makes you think I think that?

 

You seem to be infatuated with the current troop of leaders

Which African or Earthling wouldn't be infatuated with a bright crop of educated men and women leading their country?

 

which can make you appear less objective. I fear you're invested too much to see clearly.

Ah, spare me the emotional attachment nonsense, I have been one of the most consistent individuals on this forum and outside of it.

 

I stated the only logical thing to say- we don't know. You on the other hand are making wild predictions left right and centre.

No that was an illogical thinking process on your part, just because China has the largest army in the world doesn't mean it will seek to control the world. You ask how do you know that? Well, I look at its ancient. medieval and recent history to conclude that China has never imposed its jurisdiction across the whole planet, despite having had the military and economic power to do so at the multiple times in history.

 

That's a pattern, which allows me to superimpose it upon the future. There is nothing to suggest in President Hassan's history and term so far that would allow you to characterise him as a potential 'warmonger' or 'dictator', otherwise he wouldn't be inviting Somalia's traditional elders from all clans, and former politicians for a luncheon!

[The Zack]

Ducaysane;877136 wrote:

Abwaan

laakiin madaxweynaha makii uu Hiiraan joogay wuxuu yiri: dadka hiiraan ha tashadaan oo maamul ha samaystaan hadiii kale maamul kor looga keenay yaa u talinaya. Gobolada Jubooyinka iyo Gedo na wuxuu yiri anagaa maamul u dhisayna. xoogaa wax baa si ka ha logicgaas

"Madaxweynaha" iyo Abwaanw aa isku ra'yi wuu la qabaa. Kismaayo iyo Galgaduud bey isku qasayaan LOL.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

as ugly as the actions of these clans fighting for city that required kenyati to liberate, there is a need for clarification from villa somalia and the Parliament about the formation of local governments. If the president can not appoint governors for northern regions, why does he want appoint for Juba? btw, if the rational is that certain disputed cities and regions require federal oversight, i would agree but that is case he needs to make to the parliament.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

he needs to promote all inclusive administration in the region, and by doing so endorse the hard earned frameworks established in Nairobi for the past few months. Apparently, traditional minority clan leaders and others with their own agenda have convinced him that their rights have not being preserved. They should be listened to and appropriate action has to take to resolve their grievances with government at the seat of the table.

Who is 'minority' in gobollada Jubbooyinka? Kan qoriga aakaha uu wadan jiray oo wali ismoodo in uu awood badanyahay ayaa 'majority' ah miyaa? Wax Kiikuuyo soo dhoob dhoobtay iyo wax meesha awalba xoog ku yimid in '99 ayaa dadka kale 'minority' ku sheegaayo, waa dadkii beeraha lahaa iyo deegaanka magacyadooda awoowyaashooda u baxsadeen. Dadkii awoowgooda tobonaad deganaa ayaa 'minority' lagu sheegaa. Dadkii Kismaayo u bixiye degmada ayaa 'minority' lagu sheegay. Xishood maba jiraba.

 

Madaxweynaha xaq ayuu u leeyahay in uu u magacaabo maamulka Kismaayo. Madaxweynihii horeba gobolka Hiiraan asagaa u magacaabay, kaas oo waliba kumeelgaar ahaa. Kumeelgaar laga baxay, awood ayuuna u leeyahay in uu u magacaabo. Not Kiikuuyo iyo waxee dabada ka wataan.

 

Maamul goboleedkaan iyo qashin qashinkaan hala iska iloowo. Degmo walba goonideeda ha isku maamusho, korna gobolka ha laga maamulo. Jubbada Hoose waa Jubbada Hoose oo guddoomiyaheeda u gaar ah. Jubbada Dhexe sidaasoo kale guddoomiyaheeda u gaar ah. Saas ayee waligeed ahaan jirtay. Wixii taas dhaafsan isqabsigaan ma dhamaanaayo, Barbaartana wey soo noqoneysaa.

 

No wonder the only time since 1990 Kismaayo qabqabsiga ka yaraaday waa kaliya markee Barbaarta xukumaan. No qabyaalad iyo qashinkeeda laga maqlay meeshaas. No wonder the residents are alraedy praying Barbaarta inay u soo noqdaan.

[Somalia]

Omg Miskiin is making sense today :eek:

[oba hiloowlow]

Sadaqtaa Yaa Miskiin

[Mario B]

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;877250 wrote:

Who is 'minority' in gobollada Jubbooyinka? Kan qoriga aakaha uu wadan jiray oo wali ismoodo in uu awood badanyahay ayaa 'majority' ah miyaa? Wax Kiikuuyo soo dhoob dhoobtay iyo wax meesha awalba xoog ku yimid in '99 ayaa dadka kale 'minority' ku sheegaayo, waa dadkii beeraha lahaa iyo deegaanka magacyadooda awoowyaashooda u baxsadeen. Dadkii awoowgooda tobonaad deganaa ayaa 'minority' lagu sheegaa. Dadkii Kismaayo u bixiye degmada ayaa 'minority' lagu sheegay. Xishood maba jiraba.

 

Madaxweynaha xaq ayuu u leeyahay in uu u magacaabo maamulka Kismaayo. Madaxweynihii horeba gobolka Hiiraan asagaa u magacaabay, kaas oo waliba kumeelgaar ahaa. Kumeelgaar laga baxay, awood ayuuna u leeyahay in uu u magacaabo. Not Kiikuuyo iyo waxee dabada ka wataan.

 

Maamul goboleedkaan iyo qashin qashinkaan hala iska iloowo

. Degmo walba goonideeda ha isku maamusho, korna gobolka ha laga maamulo. Jubbada Hoose waa Jubbada Hoose oo guddoomiyaheeda u gaar ah. Jubbada Dhexe sidaasoo kale guddoomiyaheeda u gaar ah. Saas ayee waligeed ahaan jirtay. Wixii taas dhaafsan isqabsigaan ma dhamaanaayo, Barbaartana wey soo noqoneysaa.

 

No wonder the only time since 1990 Kismaayo qabqabsiga ka yaraaday waa kaliya markee Barbaarta xukumaan. No qabyaalad iyo qashinkeeda laga maqlay meeshaas. No wonder the residents are alraedy praying Barbaarta inay u soo noqdaan.

[Abwaan]

Ducaysane;877136 wrote:

Abwaan

laakiin madaxweynaha makii uu Hiiraan joogay wuxuu yiri: dadka hiiraan ha tashadaan oo maamul ha samaystaan hadiii kale maamul kor looga keenay yaa u talinaya. Gobolada Jubooyinka iyo Gedo na wuxuu yiri anagaa maamul u dhisayna. xoogaa wax baa si ka ha logicgaas

Haddii uu taas yiri wax saxan ma ahan mana ku raacsani, amase maamullada halla wada sameeyo amase halla iska wada dhaafo taas baa xaq ah. Balse Ogaada Jubbada Hoose Soomaali badan baa deggan in laga qayb-geliyana waa muhiim in koox is fiirsato keliya ma ahan taladuna kuma jirto.

[Abwaan]

The Zack;877232 wrote:

"Madaxweynaha" iyo Abwaanw aa isku ra'yi wuu la qabaa. Kismaayo iyo Galgaduud bey isku qasayaan LOL.

The Zack adiga waaba lagu soo baarayaa, waxaan ka baqayaa inaad Dhagax-buur ka sokeyn weyso oo Kismaayo waxba kaa khuseyn waayaan ee dhibka dhaaf.

[Haatu]

Miskiin you are right, federaalkan la sheegaayo waa qashin oo waa laga fiican yahey. Laakiin on the one hand in reer Hiiraan loo fasaxo in aayahoodda ay ka tashadaan reer Jubba/Gedo lagu dhaho waa la idiin talin, taas xaq ma'aho. It's about principle sxb.

 

Also, I don't know about numbers, but the communities Oba mentioned have as much right as others to be included. We need maamuul loo dhan yahey, not mid ku dhisan xaq daro.

 

Chimera, the president made a bad move judging by his comments. His requesting Kenya to stop meddling is legitimate but he should not have said what he said.

 

Btw, you're all gonna have to excuse Zack, he's one of the Galti ka badbaadey xalaaleyntii Galtida For those of you who don't know, cagadheerka degga NFD and Jubbooyinka waxey Galtida ku dacaayadeyn jireyn berrigii uu aduunka qumanaa in dhiig islaan ey qabaan. Marka markuu nin galti uu deegaanahaas soo galo waa la xalaaleyn jirey. Yacni boqol karbaash tii lasiiyo ayaa markaas gabar iyo xoolo lasiin jirey. There was a galti man in Garissa ey arrinkan ku dhacdey in Qooqaani. Marka Zack wuxuu kamid yahey Galtidii xalaaleynta ka badbaadey, asaga iyo Abtigiis