National conversation changing in Somaliland

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Tallaabo;868720 wrote:

Quebec had a referendum to separate from Canada and the international community was willing to accept them. Scotland will hold a referendum in about two years to decide whether they still want to be part of the UK or be independent and again the international community will accept whichever decision the Scots make. So Mr Abtigiis, what makes you think the international community will act any differently when it comes to the break up of a poor African country? The international community bows to the demands of only strong countries not an entity on a life support system in an intensive care unit.

if it was Ethiopia a Christian ally of the west i could've understand it, they will do everything to keep that country intact as one nation despite ethnic differences and religious differences. Or Turkey a western ally and regional power in the middle east a NATO member they will do everything to keep the kurds part of turkey. But a country as Somalia which is more a problem to the west than an ally The Arab league headed by Egypt is more interested to keep Somaliland and Somalia as one country the west is very indifferent and other African states are either pro or indifferent. Thats why the Europeans and Americans came up with idea well you guys should clarify ur relations and we will mediate between Somaliland and Somalia as long as it takes.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Tallaabo;868720 wrote:

Quebec had a referendum to separate from Canada and the international community was willing to accept them.

Nah. Clarity Act passed by the Canadian parliament states otherwise.

 

The key points of the legislation included the following:

• Giving the House of Commons the power to decide whether a proposed referendum question was considered clear before the public vote;
• Specifically stating that any question not solely referring to secession was to be considered unclear;
• Giving the House of Commons the power to determine whether or not a clear majority had expressed itself following any referendum vote, implying that some sort of supermajority is required for success;
• Stating that all provinces and the First Nations were to be part of the negotiations;
• Allowing the House of Commons to override a referendum decision if it felt the referendum violated any of the tenets of the Clarity Act;
• The secession of a province of Canada would require an amendment to the Constitution of Canada.

In other words, impossible now.

[AYOUB]

xiinfaniin;868564 wrote:

 

At least you and Ayoub have made clear that you will support the looming union if done right

Looming? I never said looming.

 

A lot people in here paid over the odds in meher and gabbaati because you convinced them of the "looming petro dollars" in Puntland, so I advice caution before investing in a kind of "union" advertised by Xiin

[Taleexi]

xiinfaniin;868583 wrote:

Macno Yare's clannish appeal misses the point...

Macno yare iska dhaaf.

[Abtigiis]

Carafaat,

 

Care to enlighten me where the current SL-Somalia talks are headed to? I really don't know.

 

Also, on federal states, you still can't fiure out that the 4.5 based parliament will follow a clan line to determine which regions should form a state? I don't like Federalism too, but then i don't believe in fairlytale either. I don't think the thing of Italian Somaliland Vs British Somalialnd will work. I just don't think. There can be no Federal State with two States (Somaliland and Somalia), because Puntland and others will also come with a deman for the same political status. If you ask me the best thing is to forget about Federalism and focus on devolution of political power and resources to the 18 regions. I believe thatwill solve many problems.

 

Why are people talking about "SL built institutions for 20 years blah blah". Who is saying this must be destroyed. All we are saying is that the inherent contradictions in the SNM drive for secession - a secession agenda which is based on clan interest but is presented in the garb of geography, will bring out a bleeding challenge to SL sooner or later. Suppose Khatumo gets the PM post, and Awdal the foreign ministry in Somalia. Suppose millions of dollars are poured into Somalia and these ministers start to woo their constituenciies. Are we expected to belive that will not create confusion in SL? Let us be honest with ourselves.

 

Of course, Suldaanka and the SNM diaspora who are not aware of the reality on the ground expect their cousins in SL to eat empty pride and aspiration, as if economic realities do not matter to the youth and business men in SL.

[Carafaat]

Mintid Farayar;868596 wrote:

Somalis of the South are busy celebrating the successful transfer of positions between two presidents in very trying circumstances. Why is it that all posters attempting to bring up the complex issue of Somaliland/Somalia relations hail from those same

marginal

corners?? Is it because their only coin can be gained by pitting Hargeisa vs. Mogadishu? Is that the only way to gain relevance again after a losing hand attempting to gain the Presidency in Mogadishu? Makes one wonder...

That is the effect of the most poiseness of all clan Virusses, its called the Siyadism/Sayidism virus.

 

I have studied its effects and the diffrence with the other clan virusses

is, one has to loose in order one to win. After all one can't be all winners.

Just look at the famous 'Kismaayo' syndrome, due to Siyadism a single

Clan couldn't make peace and share their only common inhabited city.

 

The situation become so severe in Kismaayo, that a certain Dr.Godane was

Called in from Hargeysa to come with an anti-virus, against Saydism. He did,

It was called Al Shabaab. The medicine had some side effects, soon they will

Stop the treatment. Let's wait and see if the poisensess virus returns in Ksimaayo.

 

[AYOUB]

Suppose Khatumo gets the PM post, and Awdal the foreign ministry in Somalia. Suppose millions of dollars are poured into Somalia and these ministers start to woo their constituenciies. Are we expected to belive that will not create confusion in SL? Let us be honest with ourselves.

Too much supposition and gubadka aan gubi..

 

You're regurgitating and repackaging arguments you lost years ago. If only 30% of Hargeisa is for union with Somalia, why not call for a referendum to settle the issue? Why waste millions of dollars and fat cat jobs as bribes?

 

How can you call people out of touch diaspora when your predictive solution for Somalia - the motor-mouth by the name Geo Samatar got humiliated and rejected with a handful of votes just this week? No one fits the bill "out out touch diaspora dude" like Geo Sam.

 

*I'd advice Hiil-Daran folks like to take a back seat and stop this back-handed campaign for ministerial post as a consolation for their defeat.*

[Carafaat]

Warya Ayoub, Hiilqaran is against federalism.

 

Abtigiis'na dhiigi ayaa yara kacay,

Kolay midbaa Hargeysa ku dacayadeeyay.

[AYOUB]

Who shall we believe sums the mood of Hargeisa, Sultan Abshir of Awdal or poster Abtigiis?

 

 

[Abtigiis]

HiilQaran did not lose nor did the good Professor. The expectations were always modest and we are aware of the current realities in Somalia's politics. Clan is very key, religious groups has an edge. As I said before, the ideas of HQ are strong and it has future in Somalia. It will only get strengthened if the good Professor gets a cabinet seat and starts to build his connections. But more than anything, HQ is a party with a winning idea: No federalism, no kowtowing to foriegners monopoly of Somalia politics, and liberal democracy. Overtime, these ideas will become the dominanat ideas. Professor Ahmed might even go to his teaching but HQ will live on.

 

Edit- Carafaat, no where did I say I support Federalism. I was just doing a scenario analysis based on what I think will happen, not necessarily what i want to happen.

[Abtigiis]

Ayoub, Suldan Abshir is praising Professor Ahmed Ismael Samatar. "Somali halkaad doonaysay may gaadhin". Afterall, he looks a man upset that their man hasn't been supported for his somalinimo ideals. If at all, it supports my claim that should Professor get a big docket in Somalia, Awdal will stop flirting stealthily and will declare its open love for the somalia suitor.

[AYOUB]

Somalia has not reached where Geo Sam is trying to navigate her to and he should come back to Somaliland is the message. I read that as the political maturity for unification has not been attained and nothing to do with a fat cat job for Geo Samatar personally. Not all people as simpletons as the ones you've supposedly spoken to.

[Abtigiis]

unless all somalilanders ar simpletons,I talked to those I thought were intellectuals and professionals. Ofcourse, the followers of Askarmotors and Gabiley.com class is to follow not to lead and therefore their opinions do not mattter much.

[Carafaat]

Abtigiis;868826 wrote:

Ayoub, Suldan Abshir is praising Professor Ahmed Ismael Samatar. "Somali halkaad doonaysay may gaadhin". Afterall, he looks a man upset that their man hasn't been supported for his somalinimo ideals. If at all, it supports my claim that should Professor get a big docket in Somalia, Awdal will stop flirting stealthily and will declare its open love for the somalia suitor.

War Awdal wa sub clans juist like Duriyada. What is this obsession with pealing down the onion to kuwa hoose while we are supposed to seek the upper layers.

[Abtigiis]

seeking the upper layers doesn't mean getting delusional and shunning facts that face us everyday. Also analyzing issues doesn't mean its my preference. This is the same curse I get from ONLF when I say Ethiopia will not disintegrate. They get mad and accuse me of wishing Ethiopia good. Carafaat you are heading that way. It is a reality that Awdal has different feeling towards Somalilandinimo than Berbera has. It is a plain and clear reality. That Suldan was sad because his clanmen lost.

 

HiilQaran is transitioning from political activism to strategic politics. The difference is the first is dictated by your wishes and aspirations, the latter by the facts and realities that face you and the strategies you need to come up to deal with them. I hope you see my point.