What validates spilling the blood of a Muslim:

[Nur]

Norfsky Bro.

 

It was indeed a gruesome and a horrible crime against all of the Ummah, and it was NEITHER committed by the Al Shabaab Al Mujahiduun NOR by the Xizb al Islam resistance groups who have both sacrificed their lives for Somalia's liberation against the Ethiopian supported war criminals who have a history of mass murder, assassinations, rape, who have guided the Ethiopian mercenaries to occupy Somalia which in turn caused the death of hundreds of thousands.

 

This crime was an inside job, The Somali version of 911 which only benefited warlords and their handlers, the rest of us, we have lost valuable people, Noteworthy, Brother Ibrahim Addow, a humble man who made Hijra to Somalia for the sake of Allah to give hope to the thousands of Somali kids who have fallen through the cracks during the uncivil war.

 

As for the justifications, Not all of those who support the Mujaahiduun agree with this crime, and I pray Allah to guide those who justify that carnage, it beats the very cause that they believe in, the Education and health care of the people is not a party in the conflict.

 

The fact that these Ministers have chosen to join the warlord government if their intention was to help their people the best way they know how, and to take the risk that comes with the job is debatable, but only a person who lacks wisdom can support such senseless action.

 

 

Nur

[N.O.R.F]

^Saxib, you and I know full well that there is a very good chance last week's bombing was the work of AS and/or it's affiliates.

 

How does fighting a fellow Muslim(s) and refusing to sit down and negotiate peace make them mujaahiduun?

[Nur]

Norfsky writes:

 

^Saxib, you and I know full well that there is a very good chance last week's bombing was the work of AS and/or it's affiliates.

 

 

That leaves a chance for the warlord government to have pulled this one? am I correct?

 

If that turns out to be the case, what would you make out of this incident?

 

Besides, why would the AS deny the incidence altogether knowing from their operating methods that they are not after popularity contest and care less of what the media says? also why would they risk an internal division in this incident by denying, because if it was indeed their work, regardless of what anybody says, they would have taken full credit for it since they believe that only Allah should be pleased an no one else.

 

Finally, what makes the warlord government which is full of Ethiopian informants immune to your accusations, are they more credible than the AS? have they killed less Somalis in your opinion? is your allegation reflecting justice saxib? Allah SWT says, " Wa Idaa Qultum facdiluu" " When you say something, be impartially just"

 

You Write:

 

How does fighting a fellow Muslim(s) and refusing to sit down and negotiate peace make them mujaahiduun?

 

Once more, you are bypassing the justice. Was it the AS who disrupted the brief peace in Somalia after the Islamic Courts Union chased away the thugs in the TFG government? Who led the Ethiopians to occupy Somalia? wasn't that Mr. Shareef calling for Jihad and then running away? only to come back aboard a UN luxury plane? and now part of the strange bedfellows, Islamist Warlord parliament?

 

Are these strange bedfellow Muslims you are talking about Sovereign and free to make their own decision according to Somalia's best interest if the AS decides to sit with them?, or are they simply a Somali mask on an Ethiopian face bent on dividing Somalis further to keep them always weak, dependent and slaves of Ethiopia?

 

 

Nur

[Khayr]

If it is Alshabaab, they are war mongors and are murderers. They are not followers of Allah and his rasul (salallahu caliyhe wasilm) and the sahaba and the jamhuur al ulama (majority of muslim scholars).

 

I'm tired of this. War and more war and more war. Put down the seifs and pick up the pens and bricks to build.

[ElPunto]

Nur,

 

If one of your movement's 'Islamist' leaders is made head of the country and pleads with you to come to the table and make the country peaceful - and you reply with blood and slaughter - you have absolutely no shred of Islaniimo. It doesn't matter whether the TFG is controlled by Ethiopians or Americans or aliens.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Nur:

Norfsky Bro.

 

It was indeed a gruesome and a horrible crime against all of the Ummah, and it was

NEITHER committed by the Al Shabaab Al Mujahiduun

NOR

by the Xizb al Islam resistance groups who have both sacrificed their lives for Somalia's liberation against the Ethiopian supported war criminals who have a history of mass murder, assassinations, rape, who have guided the Ethiopian mercenaries to occupy Somalia which in turn caused the death of hundreds of thousands.

 

This crime was an inside job,

The Somali version of 911

which only benefited warlords and their handlers, the rest of us, we have lost valuable people, Noteworthy, Brother Ibrahim Addow, a humble man who made Hijra to Somalia for the sake of Allah to give hope to the thousands of Somali kids who have fallen through the cracks during the uncivil war.

 

As for the justifications, Not all of those who support the Mujaahiduun agree with this crime, and I pray Allah to guide those who justify that carnage, it beats the very cause that they believe in, the Education and health care of the people is not a party in the conflict.

 

The fact that these Ministers have chosen to join the warlord government if their intention was to help their people the best way they know how, and to take the risk that comes with the job is debatable, but only a person who lacks wisdom can support such senseless action.

 

 

Nur

Sheekh Nur, with all his wisdom and calm conveniently forgets two facts:

 

1) The entity he calls warlord government is deemed a riddah government by the people he calls mujaaahiduun. I am sure Nur knows very well the practical consequence of this judgment, and what it entails for those who chose to join it.

2) The two groups, whom he showered with praises, did indeed sacrifice their lives to fight against Ethiopia and other Somalis. But they did also sacrifice their lives against each other, and continue to die in the context of wars of fitnah where one deems the other riddah.

 

The first fact shows the theological rationale of committing such act to eliminate what could be considered highly valuable targets in the form of late ministers. The second fact suggests the recklessness with which alshabaab spills blood of Muslims to achieve their objectives. In Arabic, it’s called istikhfifaaf a-dimaa’al Muslimiin . Further more, alshabaab do not always claim their kills. They are global movement that is very complex and sophisticated. The Beledweyne massacre took them some time to finally come out and claim it. Even more relevant is the fact that, from a theological standpoint, not from the perspective of political convenience, there is no difference between what happened in Beledweyne and what happened in Mogadishu. In both incidents, muslims were killed in large numbers by a group that deems spilling Muslims blood a secondary in nature when put in the context of the global war they are waging as a result of real, not perceived, grievance that goes beyond Somalia’s political squabbles.

 

I knew Addow though it was long time ago when I met him in Richmond, Viriginia, he was indeed a great Muslim character who remained true to Allah’s teachings till the last minute. Of course we judge what is apparent in one’s deeds, and defer the rest to the One that knows all.

 

The one who killed him to enter jannah is a one who is burried in deep fitnah. May allah guide the rest of this mad group, and show them the xaq in whose name they kill.

[Nur]

Baarkallahu feek akhi al kareem Xiin.

 

I really enjoyed reading your response, and it was indeed thought provoking for me as well as for many readers the way you have approached the topic, and your insinuation of one party's guilt while by omission, you have washed the other party's well documented crimes from their hands. What really interested me immensely was your selective theological reference to drivers of your assumed culpability of one party as well as the political drivers of decisions made by this particular group in the current conflict in Somalia.

 

This is the kind of debate I was looking for brother xiin for a long time, inshAllah, I shall respond, meanwhile, don't forget to pray for all te victims of violence in Somalia, and for Xaq to surface from the rubble of deceit and baatil to be crushed.

 

Nur

[N.O.R.F]

Originally posted by Nur:

Norfsky writes:

 

^Saxib, you and I know full well that there is a very good chance last week's bombing was the work of AS and/or it's affiliates.

 

 

That leaves a chance for the warlord government to have pulled this one? am I correct?

 

If that turns out to be the case, what would you make out of this incident?

 

Besides, why would the AS deny the incidence altogether knowing from their operating methods that they are not after popularity contest and care less of what the media says? also why would they risk an internal division in this incident by denying, because if it was indeed their work, regardless of what anybody says, they would have taken full credit for it since they believe that only Allah should be pleased an no one else.

 

Finally, what makes the warlord government which is full of Ethiopian informants immune to your accusations, are they more credible than the AS? have they killed less Somalis in your opinion? is your allegation reflecting justice saxib? Allah SWT says,

" Wa Idaa Qultum facdiluu"

" When you say something, be impartially just"

 

You Write:

 

How does fighting a fellow Muslim(s) and refusing to sit down and negotiate peace make them mujaahiduun?

 

Once more, you are bypassing the justice. Was it the AS who disrupted the brief peace in Somalia after the Islamic Courts Union chased away the thugs in the TFG government? Who led the Ethiopians to occupy Somalia? wasn't that Mr. Shareef calling for Jihad and then running away? only to come back aboard a UN luxury plane? and now part of the strange bedfellows, Islamist Warlord parliament?

 

Are these strange bedfellow Muslims you are talking about Sovereign and free to make their own decision according to Somalia's best interest if the AS decides to sit with them?, or are they simply a Somali mask on an Ethiopian face bent on dividing Somalis further to keep them always weak, dependent and slaves of Ethiopia?

 

 

Nur

Nur,

 

As I have already stated in the politics forum, anyone who believes this act was carried-out by anyone other than AS is being naive. You can conspiracy theory all you like but the fingers will remain pointed at AS.

 

AS have denied it because they realise students were killed. Any acknowledge that they were the perpetrators would go against their beliefs and thus reduce support/encouragement from their supporters.

 

The government, as much you would like to paint a negative picture about them, do not have a track record for killing its own people in suicide missions. That track record belong to AS and affiliates and that is what makes the over whelming majority of Somalis believe it was AS’s doing.

 

"Wa Idaa Qultum facdiluu" " When you say something, be impartially just"

 

Surely this applies to all?

 

With regard to your comments about Sheikh Sharif running from battle, just a couple of questions for you.

 

Where did Aweys go?

 

Why did he not fight?

 

Is he not the leaders of those you support today?

 

Selective judgement has been a key feature of AS supporters.

 

Sheikh Sharif worked tirelessly with the UN to rid Somalia of Ethiopia. Do you acknowledge this? Where was Aweys when the negotiations and timelines were being put together?

 

Your last paragraph shows that what you have is suspicion alone, misguided but nevertheless suspicion alone. You suspect the govnt isn’t sincere. You suspect they are in bed with Ethiopia and the US and will not persevere in trying to make Somalia a peaceful, Islamic country where all the rights of the people are upheld. This is all suspicion saxib.

 

The groups you’re supporting have not attended any peace talks. They have refused to and shout all sorts of things against the govnt as reasons why they won’t attend peace talks. Is this islamically the correct thing to do? Please expand your answer.

 

Ps I personally know Aweys had secret talks with Sharif.

[Nur]

Akhi Al Ghaali Norfsky

 

Jazakallahu Kheiran for this response, the gap of understanding seems to be bigger than I initially imagined, based on my past experience on your write ups.

 

However, if our sincere intention is to close this gap between us, inshaaAllah our effort will reduce Somalia's problems by two people.

 

Therefore, I humbly request from you to be objective, and to focus on settling the misunderstanding by referring to true facts that will show us where the problem lies, its scope and how we can resolve this problem. The intellectual level on which we are now engaged can help the political decisions and hence actions on the ground, on which we disagree.

 

InshAllah, I will address the important issues you have raised objectively, hoping that you will likewise do the same with a sincere intention to close the gap of misunderstanding, so that we can work together for our people on a constructive way, because, the parties are now involved in destruction as we speak. We need to rise above that futile level.

 

 

Nur

[Castro]

Sheikh Nuurow, just because you are paranoid does not mean they're not out to get you.

 

I'm waiting for the day you say the Shabaab have been infiltrated by a Zionist group commanding young men to blow themselves up so they could give Muslims a bad name.

[Nur]

Castro bro.

 

lol @ Paranoid! made me laugh today saaxib, did'nt know you have such a funny lines!

 

I found happiness long time ago, and Alhamdulillah, I never looked back saaxib, except for fighting off Satan and his soldiers in these pages.

 

 

An Interview with Ms. Happiness!

 

Happiness was once asked, "Where do you reside?"

 

She said, " In the hearts of those who are satisfied with Allah's Qadaa ( Disposition)"

 

"And what do you live on?" she said: " Oh, I live on the strength of their faith.

 

And how are you sustained? she said, "By their positive attitude about Allah SWT"

 

And what makes you so steadfast and firm?

 

She said " For a soul to to know that no harm will befall on her except that which Allah has decreed."

 

 

Nur

[Castro]

Glad you're amused saaxib. It was meant to be funny though not entirely. You and I share the same views on many (if not most) issues except for your recent efforts of finding fault in everyone but the Shabaab. You need to take another look at what has become of the Cinderella (Courts) of 2006.

 

You seem to be stuck in the past and not seeing the forest for the trees.

[Nur]

Castro bro, thanks for the complement (isn't living in the past great? to be precise, way before 2006, like the Seventh century?). No one is without fault, but some, never seem to learn and are cursed to repeat. I am preparing a response to Norfsky and Xiin and inshAllah it will address faults and blunders by everyone. Patience.

 

 

Nur

[Laba-X]

Funny how many people speak about the affairs of religion by simply resorting to their own opinions and understanding.

 

Xiinow, si daacadnima ah hadaad arrinta u guda geleysid akhi, by using sound evidence and not mere hearsay and opinion and by analysing the situation with detachment and without prejudice or preconceived notions of any sort from the onset, there is a possibility that we may agree on something, or understand one another's viewpoints; hadii kale iska daba wareegiyo baalaxooftay bahashu inaga noqon. And I am more than ready to discuss why I think Shariif's is an apostate regime and why AS are no way near the misguided Khawaarij.

 

Brother North, you are dismayed by the AS supporters' justifications of Muslims being killed. There is no justifications for killing innocent Muslims and if anyone says there is one he is wrong. Yes Muslims are being killed but the question is - who is killing these Muslims? By Allah I am more closer to the reality than you are and nothing is as you perceive it ina-adeer!

 

The thing is none of your are able to perceive things impartially at first. You take everything with a grain of salt. First you blame the Mujahideen (even if they say, look guys we didn't do this one! something dubious is going on) then you affix the label and then you try to justify the reason. It is a backward process and won't solve anything but meddle your thoughts...

 

If it is the TFG 'muslims' you are talking about then, we need to go back to the definitions of who is a Muslim and who is not - we need to return to the mas'ala of Al-Asmaa wal Axkaam. This is one of the most important aspects of Islam and it can clarify a great deal of things going on in the world today. Calling someone a Muslim means he takes the Axkaam of a Muslim such as love, protection, allegiance, brothersood, etc.

 

Calling someone a Kaafir on the other hand, means he is deprived of all the aforementioned attributes and he tkes the axkaam of a kaafir such as hate, disavowal, enmity, abhorrence of the religion, etc. The Asmaa such as Muslim, Mu’min, Murtad, Munaafiq, Faasiq, Kaafir, all have attributed to them some Axkaam which they take.

 

Islam has conditions and is not just a word one proclaims or the simple utterance of the Shahaadateyn that guarantees his blood's inviolability. No. He must fulfil the conditions of the Shahaadateyn. Arrin culus weeye kaniye sska ilaali yaa North, yaaney bohoola kaala dhicine...

[NGONGE]

^^ I doubt that Islamic lesson (or the ones in your first post)is going to change people's opinions, saaxib. The rules are not in dispute here, the application is.

 

You say Al Shabab are innocent but the NEWS we keep hearing does not. You say they are misunderstood but the NEWS says not. You write pages upon pages of Islamic rules (and furnish them with a million Arabic words that half of your readers take time to fathom) yet never tackle the NEWS itself (Nur is no better with his conspiracy obsession).

 

One thing I know of Al Shabab (and the Islamic Courts before them), they are RUBBISH at getting their message across and winning people to their side.

 

What you are good at though, is shouting as loud as you can about Kaafir, Murtad, Munaafiq and Faasiq. Adeer, waxan naga daa. Tell us why Al Shabab are good and what their plans for Somalia are. Then and maybe then you will not keep losing supporters everytime the NEWS reports that you are fighting Hizbu el Islam or stoning some qabiil-less person or looting UN stores.

 

Right now, if you ask any average MUSLIM Somali about Al Shabab, he will tell you that they're an angry group of young people that are hell bent on proving everyone but them a Kaffir!

 

Is it possible to win such a person over though? I believe it is. Just like the Courts won them over the first time round.

 

Ma fahantay mese wan ku so celiya?