INstant exponentian increase in Soomaali literacy

[magicbird]

Guess what, Somalis don't have BBC or CNN, so the only satellite channels are in Arabic or Somali, and from the old to young, none need a translator. I don't know if any of you are familiar with school system in Somalia but majority are taught in Arabic. From geography to bio, the english ones are a new phenomona.

[guleed_ali]

Allyourbase;990360 wrote:

 

This is so sad, what more is the fact that 90% of Somalis who pray are just reciting verses without knowing what they really mean. It is such a surreal experience attending prayers in a Somali Masjid

, you see everyone reciting random verses of the Quran without much knowledge of what they are saying, repeatedly, day in day out. A situation which could have been avoided altogether with the permission to pray the Salat in your own language.

 

 

 

I dont know much about you or brother Guleed Ali for instance, but I can comfortably deduce that one of you at the very least is a fan of Arab skirts (aka dishdasha) and that little white hat they love to wear, maybe you like that too. I know one of you at the very least is rocking a massive f-off beard (waa sunnah). I know for SURE you do not condone the listening to of Somali music (waa xaaraan init?

), or attend non strictly islamic Somali wedding/parties (waa dambi dee), no cinema (waa lagugu cadaabi), no opera/theatre (waa fusuq). No appreciation for art, he probably would destroy the Somali cave painting if he could as they depict living creatures (waa xaaraan). I can go on and on and on. What does it all leavel? Someone indistinguishable from Arab bedowins from Hijaz. No sense of culture, no breathing space for the Arts, thats messed up sxb.

I know it's kinda like they're a bunch of slaves following their masters. Oh wait! They are a bunch of slaves following their master (Allah subhanahu wa ta3la). Allah commanded them to pray, if they decide to go further then Allah will reward them further. If they choose not to understand the book of Allah who's fault is that?

[DoctorKenney]

Again Safferz, I've been to Somalia. You've been to Somalia. And almost anyone who's been to Somalia can attest to the fact that almost all of the little Somali children in Duksi can read the Quran in it's original Arabic. That is a fact.

 

They might not be able to understand Arabic, but they can definitely read the script. Every Somali I know, religious and non-religious, Arabic speakers and Non-Arabic speakers, have some familiarity with the Arabic script and most of them can read the Quran in it's original Arabic (although they don't understand the meanings). So yes, "virtually all of Somalia" can read Arabic. All of these Somali adults have some familiarity with the Arabic script, and my experiences with the Somalis in Somaliland, Puntland and South-Central confirmed this to me.

[burahadeer]

wondering where these guys live claiming that majority of Somalis understand Arabic or every subject in school taught in Arabic.

 

Total nonsense, not even 1% speak ,understand Arabic, go take you camera & talk to thm in Arabic in any town, forget villages.unless ofc you grew up in the gulf which itself tiny.

 

Suspecting these posters r Somali Arabs

[Safferz]

DoctorKenney;990375 wrote:

Again Safferz, I've been to Somalia. You've been to Somalia. And almost anyone who's been to Somalia can attest to the fact that almost all of the little Somali children in Duksi can read the Quran in it's original Arabic. That is a fact.

 

They might not be able to understand Arabic, but they can definitely read the script. Every Somali I know, religious and non-religious, Arabic speakers and Non-Arabic speakers, have some familiarity with the Arabic script and most of them can read the Quran in it's original Arabic (although they don't understand the meanings). So yes, "virtually all of Somalia" can read Arabic. All of these Somali adults have some familiarity with the Arabic script, and my experiences with the Somalis in Somaliland, Puntland and South-Central confirmed this to me.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't qualify as data and the people you know or may have met do not represent the statistical norm, but if you'd like to go there, my experience in the Somali region (particularly in rural areas) tells me otherwise. Orality is king, including in religious practice.

 

The denial of our massive literacy issue - literacy being the ability to recognize, write, and read the written word, in any script - does nothing but hinder our progress and development.

[Khayr]

DoctorKenney;990375 wrote:

Again Safferz, I've been to Somalia. You've been to Somalia. And almost anyone who's been to Somalia can attest to the fact that almost all of the little Somali children in Duksi can read the Quran in it's original Arabic. That is a fact.

 

They might not be able to understand Arabic, but they can definitely read the script. Every Somali I know, religious and non-religious, Arabic speakers and Non-Arabic speakers, have some familiarity with the Arabic script and most of them can read the Quran in it's original Arabic (although they don't understand the meanings). So yes, "virtually all of Somalia" can read Arabic. All of these Somali adults have some familiarity with the Arabic script, and my experiences with the Somalis in Somaliland, Puntland and South-Central confirmed this to me.

DoctorKenney is correct

with his comparison of Turkey to Somalia.

Atta Turk forced down latin on

the Turks to modernize them.

 

Siyad forced latin on Somalis to modernize them.

 

You can't use a different set of criterias to evaluate people. You can't say Latin, English and French are acceptable languages and that The Arabic language is to be disqualified and made null.

[guleed_ali]

Safferz;990379 wrote:

Anecdotal evidence doesn't qualify as data and the people you know or may have met do not represent the statistical norm, but if you'd like to go there, my experience in the Somali region (particularly in rural areas) tells me otherwise. Orality is king, including in religious practice.

 

The denial of our massive literacy issue

- literacy being the ability to recognize, write, and read the written word, in any script - does nothing but hinder our progress and development.

No one is denying it we're just differing in how we should go about fixing it. Some like Dr. K suggested we change the script to Arabic that way kids in dugsi learn to read the Quran and their native language concurrently. It's a strategic project and one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

[Safferz]

guleed_ali;990386 wrote:

No one is denying it we're just differing in how we should go about fixing it. Some like Dr. K suggested we change the script to Arabic that way kids in dugsi learn to read the Quran and their native language concurrently. It's a strategic project and one that I agree with wholeheartedly.

He seems to believe Somalis *are* literate, just that they're literate in Arabic while illiterate in Somali, which is absurd.

[Khayr]

Saff,

 

Ever done questionnaires for your research papers? Ever interviewed someone and quoted their "findings"?

 

Exactly what sort of progress and development do you have in mind? Do you want Industrialization? If yes, are you prepared to take responsibility for the population and cancers that come with it?

 

What literacy standard are you talking about here? Do you want Somalis to all become "English/French/Latin" readers so that we can "progress" as people?

[guleed_ali]

Safferz;990389 wrote:

He seems to believe Somalis *are* literate, just that they're literate in Arabic while illiterate in Somali, which is absurd.

The ones who already go to Dugsi are ahead of the game. I'm not sure how many kids have access to dugsi. But if the script was changed to Arabic there would be a positive correlation between literacy and students going to dugsi.

[Khayr]

Saff,

 

What written non-latin Somali language are you talking about?

All DoctorKenney said is that Arabic literacy is purposily omitted from those Stats. You and Bur and Base are being dishonest with yourselves. Just admit that you and your Stats are

heavily skewed and biased.

[DoctorKenney]

Safferz;990389 wrote:

He seems to believe Somalis *are* literate, just that they're literate in Arabic while illiterate in Somali, which is absurd.

Never did I claim that Somali *are* literate. Most Somalis cannot read, and I never claimed otherwise. I'm just stating the obvious. Somalis can read the Arabic script, but can't understand the language. So perhaps a solution could be to change our writing system.

 

For example, Ayan can read the Arabic script, but Ayan doesn't understand the Arabic language. So she can't be considered "literate" since she can't understand what's she's reading. However, Ayan can speak Somali, and understand Somali. But she has no familiarity with the Latin script (which Somali is written in) so therefore she's unable to read Somali. She would be considered technically illiterate. But if the Somali language was switched to the Arabic script, Ayan would now be able to read Somali fully. Now Ayan would be considered literate.

 

Do you see how this little change can raise our literacy rate in one day?

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

[guleed_ali]

DoctorKenney;990396 wrote:

Never did I claim that Somali *are* literate. Most Somalis cannot read, and I never claimed otherwise. I'm just stating the obvious. Somalis can read the Arabic script, but can't understand the language. So

perhaps

a solution could be to change our writing system.

 

For example, Ayan can read the Arabic script, but Ayan doesn't understand the Arabic language. So she can't be considered "literate" since she can't understand what's she's reading. However, Ayan can speak Somali, and understand Somali. But she has no familiarity with the Latin script (which Somali is written in) so therefore she's unable to read Somali. She would be considered technically illiterate. But if the Somali language was switched to the Arabic script, Ayan would now be able to read Somali fully. Now Ayan would be considered literate.

 

Do you see how this little change can raise our literacy rate in one day?

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

Full stop, period, end of sentence. You brought us back to the title of the thread Doc, excellent synopsis!

[Alpha Blondy]

Safferz;990358 wrote:

37.8% overall according to the

UN

, and the

CIA

, 25% according to

WHO

.

ok. thanks.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

DoctorKenney;990396 wrote:

Never did I claim that Somali *are* literate. Most Somalis cannot read, and I never claimed otherwise. I'm just stating the obvious. Somalis can read the Arabic script, but can't understand the language. So

perhaps

a solution could be to change our writing system.

 

For example, Ayan can read the Arabic script, but Ayan doesn't understand the Arabic language. So she can't be considered "literate" since she can't understand what's she's reading. However, Ayan can speak Somali, and understand Somali. But she has no familiarity with the Latin script (which Somali is written in) so therefore she's unable to read Somali. She would be considered technically illiterate. But if the Somali language was switched to the Arabic script, Ayan would now be able to read Somali fully. Now Ayan would be considered literate.

 

Do you see how this little change can raise our literacy rate in one day?

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

Indeed. Well said. What further confirms your point is UNESCO defines literacy as the "ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate and compute, using printed and written materials associated with varying contexts. Literacy involves a continuum of learning in enabling individuals to achieve their goals, to develop their knowledge and potential, and to participate fully in their community and wider society [and the inability to do is defined as illiteracy]. "

 

Given such definition, the statistics used by safferz is misguiding in context of this argument.