Any rationalist observing Ramadan?

[The-freeman]

Che -Guevara;852346 wrote:

^I am not talking about you but only those I have met but enlighten us with your journey to nirvana. Leave the comedy to the funny folks.

Long process of questioning, comparing and learning about history. All these become possible when one realises the imaginary threat of hell is just that, imaginery. In sum, it's a long process of mental evolution.

[LayZie G.]

Che -Guevara;852335 wrote:

Well, other than the two atheists I mentioned earlier whose transformation was rooted in practical experience and yearning questions, the rest simply follow certain predictable timeline starting with studying at school where it seems their confined mind exploded and took in everything that come their way. They really can't tell you when was the critical juncture where things have become clear for them. All they do is regurgitate things they heard in class or venues they frequent once they get

baptized

.

Baptism is a form of rite. The rite is commonly attributed to the Church, therefore its very essence is dogmatized. Its a form of christening the faithful; in this case, a member of a church.

 

 

 

Also, you have made some serious gaffes today.

 

Mida hore, you are conflating dogma with reason.

 

Mida kale, you are conflating Atheism with Christianity.

 

In addition to that, baro waxa ay reason tahay, iyo waxa ay dogma tahay. And what it means to be a unbeliever.

(in this case, what it means to be an atheist)

 

Atheism is not synonymous with any good theory like reason / rationalism.

Not all (unbelievers) in this case atheists are

rationalists. And not all rationalists are unbelievers (aka atheists)

 

 

I hope this clears things up for you.....(unless ofcourse you want to edit your post and pretend you didnt have a

brain fart)

 

 

 

Best Wishes,

 

LayZie G.

[Che -Guevara]

Ramadan kariim Lazy, I know what baptistism is and my use of the word was deliberate. I don't think I said anything about rationality or that it rests with particular folks.

[Che -Guevara]

Freeman....do you believe everyone adheres to religion out of fear?

[Blessed]

The-freeman;852313 wrote:

You got it. The thread was for people who were not religious and it said nothing about attacking Ramadan or those who fast. That some people took it as a personal attack is mind boggling. I think what it shows is the intolerantand immoral nature of those who claim to be more moral than rationalist.

Hmm. I don't know why you've qouted me in this response? You made a link between Islamic definition of nifaaq and nazi racism and I've very simply asked if you can provide an explanation. It's fine you don't have an explanation, just spare me the hysterics, aye?!

[The-freeman]

*Blessed;852408 wrote:

Hmm. I don't know why you've qouted me in this response? You made a link between Islamic definition of nifaaq and nazi racism and I've very simply asked if you can provide an explanation. It's fine you don't have an explanation, just spare me the hysterics, aye?!

Maybe it was an error and YOU could spare ME the hysterics of quoting verses to support your prejudice, hmm??

[Maaddeey]

Lol, jawaab ma hayo maad iska dhahdid?.

[The-freeman]

Che -Guevara;852369 wrote:

Freeman....do you believe everyone adheres to religion out of fear?

I'm not familiar with other religions but it is true Muslims fear punishment of hell and seek the "reward" of heaven.

 

Maaddeey;852414 wrote:

Lol, jawaab ma hayo maad iska dhahdid?.

There's no point expanding on my statement as I do not believe she has the critical faculty to evaluate my assertions.

[Abtigiis]

The arguments of the Freeman are far superior to those of Che, Maaddeey and the rest. And the problem is when people start using religious narratives in what should be an objective and logical debate. I face similar problems everyday when I venture into issues such as women's rights, Islam and State etc. But I still don't understand what Freeman wanted to achieve with this post! or maybe he phrased his lines wrongly! For instance, if his question was "I do not fast, so what should I do when I am with the family" I could have taken as a genuine question. To say "I don't fast but don't eat in front of my families and what is your take on this" clearly invites words like "cheat" and "coward".

 

Maaddeeey, as a zealot mullah, there is little room for you in this kind of discussions. Clearly, a man who supports Alshabab is a primitive man.

[Maaddeey]

^ jawaab kuuma hayo duqa, nin raga baan la hadlayaa, magacaygana ha isticmaalin adoo raba inaad dad kale u gefto, samjee?

The-freeman;852415 wrote:

There's no point expanding on my statement as I do not believe she has the critical faculty to evaluate my assertions.

if you say so, lakin aniga mid iiga jawaab adoo raali ah: haddii family-gaagu gaalnimo kugu ogyihiin, maxaa lip service Ramadan uun keenay?, si kale hadaan u dhigo: sow gaalnimada inaad qarsato maaheyn ood lip service-ka halkaa ka bilowdid?.

[Miyir]

I have four people working for me who fast daily, family and countless other people i am in contact do fast. I see as ritual and i like the part of that brings the community together and charity. simply im very understanding and I do my best to make it easy for those working for me ( give them less work and more time for prayers)

 

do they know im not fasting? Yes, Do I care what they think? No. out of respect i don't eat front of them same as i will not eat front of Hungry and thirst beggar.

 

now and then i meet noisy people who try to make me guilty or try to give me sermon, normally i will give simple answer if they ask if im fasting which is simply NO, majority will be satisfied with that answer, those who don't have boundaries who push i make sure they don't ask again without explanation.

 

my take is no need to pretend. act as you will act normally and respect those who see things differently and expect same treatment from them without you defending the way you see things.

[The-freeman]

Abtigiis;852417 wrote:

The arguments of the Freeman are far superior to those of Che, Maaddeey and the rest. And the problem is when people start using religious narratives in what should be an objective and logical debate. I face similar problems everyday when I venture into issues such as women's rights, Islam and State etc. But I still don't understand what Freeman wanted to achieve with this post! or maybe he phrased his lines wrongly! For instance, if his question was "I do not fast, so what should I do when I am with the family" I could have taken as a genuine question. To say "I don't fast but don't eat in front of my families and what is your take on this" clearly invites words like "cheat" and "coward".

 

Maaddeeey, as a zealot mullah, there is little room for you in this kind of discussions. Clearly, a man who supports Alshabab is a primitive man.

I think most posters have taken issue with the word "rationalist" which may appear exclusionary but then again the word Muslim is also exclusionary, i.e it excludes people who are not Muslim. Perhaps the title should have been "are there any atheist observing Ramadan"? Nevertheless, I don't agree that anything I wrote would make me deserve the moniker of a "cheat" or "coward". I haven't cheated anybody as those around me know I'm not fasting but I respect them enough not to eat or drink in front of them. And "coward" is just absurd. To reinstate it again: the purpose of the post was to engage with fellow SOL'rs with no religion but quite possibly live with religious family and garner their views and conduct in this month.

 

Maaddeey;852418 wrote:

^ jawaab kuuma hayo duqa, nin raga baan la hadlayaa, magacaygana ha isticmaalin adoo raba inaad dad kale u gefto, samjee?if you say so, lakin aniga mid iiga jawaab adoo raali ah: haddii family-gaagu gaalnimo kugu ogyihiin,maxaa lip service Ramadan uun keenay?, si kale hadaan u dhigo: sow gaalnimada inaad qarsato maaheyn ood lip service-ka halkaa ka bilowdid?.

First of all, easy with the word "gaal" as you yourself would be classed as "gaal" by Christians, Jews and even fellow Muslims. Second, I pay lip service to Ramadan as a sign of respect for my family. Third, I think pretending to believe is much worse than pretending to fast.

 

 

Miyir;852419 wrote:

I have four people working for me who fast daily, family and countless other people i am in contact do fast. I see as ritual and i like the part of that brings the community together and charity. simply im very understanding and I do my best to make it easy for those working for me ( give them less work and more time for prayers)

 

do they know im not fasting? Yes, Do I care what they think? No. out of respect i don't eat front of them same as i will not eat front of Hungry and thirst beggar.

 

now and then i meet noisy people who try to make me guilty or try to give me sermon, normally i will give simple answer if they ask if im fasting which is simply NO, majority will be satisfied with that answer, those who don't have boundaries who push i make sure they don't ask again without explanation.

 

my take is no need to pretend. act as you will act normally and respect those who see things differently and expect same treatment from them without you defending the way you see things.

I agree, respect is key but it has to be mutual and would only apply (for me) to people I'm in contact with daily. I wouldn't stop eating,smoking or drinking in front of a stranger who is fasting.

[Che -Guevara]

The-freeman;852415 wrote:

I'm not familiar with other religions but it is true Muslims fear punishment of hell and seek the "reward" of heaven.

.

So you don't think people go the same process as you did and come to the conclusion Islam is what they want after all?

 

Abtagiis....I was not making an argument per se, merely objecting to the timing and intent of this topic, an attempt to provoke Muslims on Ramadan and the mockery tone.

[Blessed]

The-freeman;852412 wrote:

Maybe it was an error and YOU could spare ME the hysterics of quoting verses to support your prejudice, hmm??

Errr. I didn't qoute any verses at you! I've merely asked you to explain your st*pid remark, which you admit 'maybe it was an error'.

[LANDER]

The-freeman;852160 wrote:

I'm forced to pay lip service to it when around the family e.g: I tend not to eat and drink around them but nothing more than that.

 

To those who are non-religious, what is your take on this??

So you come to a forum that is predominantly muslim to pose a question to the 'non-religious', but you go further and assert the question is being posed to 'Rational' observers of Ramadan? Implying that anyone practicing Islam and observing the month of Ramadan is somehow irrational and devoid of reason. None of us are born yesterday, you came and posed this question in hopes of creating a discussion around your lack of belief, as you predicted this would be the reaction from the crowd. Like Che, I have met other atheist and though I may not share their views on religion, those I've come across are intelligent and reflective people who carry themselves with dignity and do not insult or under estimate the intelligence of religious people. They're very comfortable with their beliefs and do not seek validation or approval from others. Islam has its philosophers and philosophies that are rationally explained, if your allergic to religious teachings being brought up in the realm of reason, it only reinforces what I assumed to be your intentions in the first place. The only rational explanation I have seen from someone who is not practicing so far is the response from Miyir.