Timbuktu shrine destruction 'a war crime

[ailamos]

ElPunto;847632 wrote:

No the

Islamic

culture never dictates that saints be revered. Their

local

culture may. It's wrong of them and you or anyone else to claim that there is anything Islamic about such practices. How they resolve that is ultimately upto them - but there is a clear stand that the religion has. Ansar Al Dine is not a foreign phenomenon - it's other locals who disagree with the 'local' saint reverence culture. Whether their viewpoints are succumbed to - is not upto you. But clearly it seems you want Ansar al Dine to succumb to the local saint reverence culture. Interesting.

I don't understand how you construe my position of "letting people be" as making one group of people succumb to another? Did the local Malians Sufis of Timbuktu launch attacks on Ansar Al Dine and force them to their (the Sufis) way? No, they have not. It is clear who is the aggressor here.

 

ElPunto;847632 wrote:

Google it if you are so curious. Just like Paris is widely known to be a prime city in fashion culture.

Oh please, you can't make stuff up, and then when questioned about it respond with "google it" + an analogy.

[faarah22]

^ is that news to you you know i have two hates in my life 1. qabyaalad 2. religion. i wish i could abolish both.

[ElPunto]

ailamos;847637 wrote:

I don't understand how you construe my position of "letting people be" as making one group of people succumb to another? Did the local Malians Sufis of Timbuktu launch attacks on Ansar Al Dine and force them to their (the Sufis) way? No, they have not. It is clear who is the aggressor here.

 

 

 

Oh please, you can't make stuff up, and then when questioned about it respond with "google it" + an analogy.

Letting the people be - is that with regard to the mistaken practice of Islam or the shrines themselves. I don't think violence is the answer. But attacking shirk and eradicating it through non-violence is correct. And you can't be a believing Muslim without supporting that.

 

Ansar al Dine is the new authority in Northern Mali - I don't know of any governing force that hasn't come about through violence or used violence to stay in power. It's taken for granted that they are agressors - its the default position of a new power.

 

It's sad that you think I'm a liar simply for stating a piece of general knowledge that you are unaware of. And when I didn't spoonfeed you - you say I'm making it up.

 

Here check this out:

 

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/andrew-rossi-new-york-times-movie_b37679

[aero]

faarah22;847644 wrote:

^ is that news to you you know i have two hates in my life 1. qabyaalad 2. religion. i wish i could abolish both.

Rub that magic lamp a tad bit harder and see if the genie inside accepts your wishes

[ailamos]

ElPunto;847646 wrote:

Letting the people be - is that with regard to the mistaken practice of Islam or the shrines themselves. I don't think violence is the answer. But attacking shirk and eradicating it through non-violence is correct. And you can't be a believing Muslim without supporting that.

 

Ansar al Dine is the new authority in Northern Mali - I don't know of any governing force that hasn't come about through violence or used violence to stay in power. It's taken for granted that they are agressors - its the default position of a new power.

 

It's sad that you think I'm a liar simply for stating a piece of general knowledge that you are unaware of. And when I didn't spoonfeed you - you say I'm making it up.

 

Here check this out:

 

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/andrew-rossi-new-york-times-movie_b37679

Asking for verification of claims can hardly be called spoonfeeding. I had expected something better since you took your time in googling your claim, only to produce a documentary (on a professional networking website) about the paper in question, that's hardly impartial, but I'll accept it since it's all you've got, and that it seems you've put an effort into backing up your claim.

[The-freeman]

Won't be long before they start chopping hands and stoning people. I hope the Malian army gets there and puts an end to this madness.

[ElPunto]

ailamos;847652 wrote:

Asking for verification of claims can hardly be called spoonfeeding. I had expected something better since you took your time in googling your claim, only to produce a documentary (on a professional networking website) about the paper in question, that's hardly impartial, but I'll accept it since it's all you've got, and that it seems you've put an effort into backing up your claim.

You're backtracking. You said to me regarding my claim - you're making it up. That is a statement that I am lying about this claim period full stop. To ask for verification is not to say to one you're making it all up. At least own that much.

 

It's amusing that spoonfeeding you wasn't enough - you expect 'something better' - ie more spoonfeeding - and that a documentary on a professsional networking website is 'hardly impartial' and that it's' all I've got' etc because presumably you've got a lot more that proves the NYT doesn't set the news agenda for the USA. Talk about a backhanded way of going about things.

 

Anyone who knows something about the media landscape of the USA can hardly be in doubt as to how influential and importnnt the New York Times is in that country. That you've gotten worked up about the statement - it's widely known that the NYT sets the news agenda in the states - and the resulting back and forth here says much about your style of debate.

[ailamos]

ElPunto;847662 wrote:

You're backtracking. You said to me regarding my claim - you're making it up. That is a statement that I am lying about this claim period full stop. To ask for verification is not to say to one you're making it all up. At least own that much.

 

It's amusing that spoonfeeding you wasn't enough - you expect 'something better' - ie more spoonfeeding - and that a documentary on a professsional networking website is 'hardly impartial' and that it's' all I've got' etc because presumably you've got a lot more that proves the NYT doesn't set the news agenda for the USA. Talk about a backhanded way of going about things.

 

Anyone who knows something about the media landscape of the USA can hardly be in doubt as to how influential and importnnt the New York Times is in that country. That you've gotten worked up about the statement - it's widely known that the NYT sets the news agenda in the states - and the resulting back and forth here says much about your style of debate.

It is widely known that NYT is a respected news outlet and a newspaper-of-record, what is not "widely known", as you claim, is that NYT sets the news agenda for the entire country. These are two completely different things.

 

Our exchange went like this:

 

ME: Is that a fact? What are you basing this on?

 

YOU: You can google new york times and setting news agenda and see what you find.

 

ME: I asked you how is it "well known" that NYT sets the news agenda in the US? Paste a link if you have to.

 

YOU: Google it if you are so curious. Just like Paris is widely known to be a prime city in fashion culture.

 

ME: Oh please, you can't make stuff up, and then when questioned about it respond with "google it" + an analogy.

 

That last statement from me came about because I failed to get you to provide proof beyond the "google it" phrase. The onus is on you to prove that the NYT sets the news agenda in the US. All you have proven is a clip of a guy that says that and it could be his opinion, soundbite. You can get hundreds of soundbites on a variety of topics but that doesn't mean they are facts. If you cannot produce reliable proof, like an article, for example, then just admit that you misspoke. Why do you insist that the NYT sets the news agenda in the US when it is clearly an unverifiable statement? It could be a piece of opinion, I'll give you that much, but it is not fact.

[burahadeer]

there's always some nut defend these hoodlum so called fundamentalists ,their reasoning being everyone did some crime againest humanity somewhere sometime in the past....so every destructive behavior tolerated cos some otha hitlerite did same?mind boggling to say the least!

[Raamsade]

aero;847634 wrote:

They claim that their saints hear their supplications and intercede on their behalf. If you're very much familiar with the basic building blocks of Islam, that's full blown bid'ah (innovation) and shirk (polytheism, association of others with Allah). And with that said, destroy on!

And that is the crux of the matter, isn't it? The people who are frothing at the mouth defending these brutes or quibbling about media bias are actually in agreement with what these Jihadist have done. They're just tad bit too embarrassed to admit so.

 

Anyways, Islam is not a monolith rather it is diverse mirroring the diverse cultures, languages and ethnicities of its followers. If some Muslims believe in intercession of "saints" that is their right. No one has the right to destroy their holy places any more than one has the right to destroy Mosques and Churches.

[GaraadMon]

How can there be any sincerity in faith, if someone essentially points a gun to your head and forces you to follow their interpenetration of Islam?

 

This just goes to show you the priorities of these self declared leaders, water scarcity is the largest issue in Mali, but engineering the personal thoughts of others seems to be their only agenda at this point.

[Marksman]

The lack of outrage of Muslim people is sometimes deafening. And it is too easy to put Muslims in a bad light in the media.

 

It portrays there is an apathy of Muslims for everything that is not deemed 'Islamic' in some islamic countries. And yes there is an attack on cultures from within Muslim communities.

 

Everything that is not Islamic is not respected. Let's face it. For instance in some countries churches aren't seen as a 'House of God', but a place of blasphemy.

 

I cannot imagine that Christians over here would treat me as some Muslims would treat a Christian.

 

Tolerance and islam aren't necessarily excluded. People should speak out more against these attacks on culture and history.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Some of the arguements give hope that there are reasonable people. The Quran says there is no compulsion in religion, am not sure how these supposedly pious people get around that. What's clear however is that until Muslim speak out against these people where ever they, we have no ground to complain about "the media". Also, the unfortunate truth is that the victims of these raving lunatics are lopsidedly Muslim.

[Alpha Blondy]

Naxar Nugaaleed;847714 wrote:

Some of the arguements give hope that there are reasonable people. The Quran says there is no compulsion in religion, am not sure how these supposedly pious people get around that. What's clear however is that until Muslim speak out against these people where ever they, we have no ground to complain about "the media". Also, the unfortunate truth is that the victims of these raving lunatics are lopsidedly Muslim.

NN,

 

adiguna don't you get tired of regurgitating the same nonsense all the time sxb. you're displaying subtle hints of being a militant atheist. live and let live. don't think masqueriding between empty 'rational' words like 'reasonable' can hide your deep-seated issues and emotional instability. waar, people like you will rot in the deep dark red molten lava of hell and will be punished for your wicked sins for all of eternity lol.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

U've reminded me of story about a story of mass murderer and shaikh where the shaikh ends up in hell for telling the murderer that salvation is not possible. From the little I know of u, I believe that should any of us be headed there, your way ahead of me in that path. It is no use for likes of you to concern yourself with militant atheist for the truth is, they don't transgress the God given rights of others but your kind not only do but have the blood of many Muslims and innocents on there hand. God does not need u or anyone to inforce his commondments, if u believe so, u have wrong ideas about god. In short, get life lol