Salama calaikum

[Mario B]

^^ Could it be because we are a 'warrior race' and that we feel the need to shed some blood in order to heal our wounded ego/pride, whenever one crosses our path? Maybe Other poor uneducated Africans who live in countries with 72 tribes don't take themselves as serious as we do. As for SL being peaceful, it's because it's a government of the clan, by the clan, for the clan.

[Nudawn]

This guy really wrote a damn novel.

[Odey]

First Ngonge said:

Originally Posted by NGONGE

"I will not talk of this, I will not talk of that and I will not discuss this or discuss that. Adeer waa yeelkadaa dee; it's not a job interview.

 

But, you know what, I am finally glad to welcome someone new on this site (someone that wet behind the ears can't be anything but new).

 

We haven't had one for years. Welcome warya. "

 

 

Then Followed by this remark from Abtigis:

 

Abtigiis;848313 wrote:

From the sheer weepy introductory post he made, Nudawn is obviously a young person. Welcome to the forum bro, but if your argument is that clan is the problem in Somalia, it is an argument for which no supporting evidence is presented for. Few countries in the world, if any at all, do not have race, clan and ethnic factors that divide their citizens. Yet, there is only one failed state in the world right now - Somalia. One of the deepest clanish sentiment and identity in the Somali peninsula is exhibited in Somaliland, yet Somaliland is the only properly functioning regional state in what used to be Somalia. The amount of hate, mutual suspicion and animosity between the Amhara and the Oromos, or the Amahara and the Tigres, or the Sidama and the Woleita is not milder than the SL-PL, or PL- Galmudug rivalries. The political bad-blood between the Kikuyus and the Luo in Kenya cannot be less poisonous than the internal clan feud between HAG sub-clans!! The bottomline is that clan or clannishness is not why Somalia failed and why it is failing. It is lack of education and visionary leadership. A vibrant Somalia can prevail even if the diseased clannish mentality continues as long as there is a political leadership (a handful of them) that could steer the country forward economically and politically. The allies of Sheikh Sharif today do not come from one single clan. Politics in Somalia is now starting to resemble politics elsewhere in that it is interest - mainly vapid materialism- that drives the belief and actions of politicians. It is why a showdown is inevitable between Faroole and Abdiweli if one or the other finds that the other is an obstacle to his ambitions.

 

Yet all this does not mean clannishness is defensible. It is not. But you should listen to Khadra Dahir's "cudurka kaa gala fardaha, hadii laga gubo dameer" to get the jist of my post! Also, frothily mouthing one's partiotism and cleanliness does not always make one clean, because most of the somali politicians actually say good things about somalinimo in the media. A man I met in Hargeisa recently, clad in all white Tabliqii dress, told mee that he partticipated in the big Tabliiq gathering and that he is added to the list of the Jamaaca that will travel to Bangladesh! Nothing wrong with this, except that he is the same man who was singing "Leyla, oo Laylaa" from the Indian movie "Qurbani" just a month ago to cheering young ladies in summertime! And except that after I reminded him about that epsiode of "Leyla" and jokinly asked if he is truely reformed, he smiled and said " waar dee meesha Bengaladish naago eesh calaa ah baa la gu sheegay" implying that the Tabliiqi Jamaaca are paying his travel expenses so that he has a hot sexual romping in the rice country. So, let us not get too emotional about the nice things we say in this forum. Much more than political correctedness in this forum is to make sure that we actually contribute to the eradication of clanisim by living the life we preach! The posts Xaji Xundjuf and Dr. Osman exchange are the most hilarious, but I am sure they are not any more clanish than the average faarax in this forum.

 

Labadaan shaqsi maxaa mar waliba isdaba dhigey horta, waaba yaabe?.

[Abtigiis]

We just happen to look at things from the same angle most of the time. It is why we click whenever we talk. Oday, is that unusual? Surely, you know we are not from the same clan by now?

[Odey]

@ abtigiis!. Brother I hadn't asked anyone to forward me his/her CV in somali (abtirsi), so I cannot tell!.

 

Having said that you two seem to agree with each other a lot. Respect between adversaries is it?

[Tallaabo]

Odey;847615 wrote:

;)

 

Do yourself a favour, whatever you do, don't join any of those groups. You talent will be wasted!!. Instead maybe find likeminded people you feel can contribute to your growing network . Wish you the best in your search dear brother/sister?.... apologies but cannot tell either way

Thanks I am a male, and no need for apologies.

[Tallaabo]

Abtigiis is one of the few guys here who make a lot of sense most of the time.

[Tallaabo]

Mario B;848279 wrote:

From reading of your post, you seem to fall in the secessionist camp, the clue was in '

neo-afwaynist

' and the '

fake nationalist'

part of your comment, a favorite with secessionist when they want to defame you. If my judgement is wrong then I can only send my advanced apology!

 

P.s Nudawn, wlc saxib!

I refuse to be pigeonholed.

[Abtigiis]

I think Nudawn needs to pay some attention to these lines. Surely, bringing down all that is wrong with somalis to clan and clanishness is way too simplistic and myopic!

 

Is the proposition that clan, clannishness and clannish elites are the main impediments to the reconstruction of the

State in Somalia a false proposition? The compelling answer to this question of the moment which some may find

outlandish is a resounding yes. This dominant story which has been impetuously ingested and regurgitated by Somali

intellectuals needs to be unpacked, examined and subjected to logical and empirical interrogation to assess its

validity.

 

And this has to be done now and urgently. For there is nothing more damaging to Somalia and Somalis’ effort to

reconstruct their failed State than thoughts, ideas, assumptions, and models unscrutinised, untested, but touted with

the ease of presumed impeccability. Wrong diagnosis of Somalia’s chronic ailment led to fatal policy prescriptions in

the past and will underwrite failure of ongoing and future efforts to bring back the Somali State.

Somali intellectuals recognize the distinction between clan and clannishness. They see clannishness, not clan, as the

problem. They embark from this premise and argue that clannishness of Somali intellectuals is the key obstacle to

the restoration of the Somali State.

 

In this article, I will argue that inter and intra clan harmony is not a necessary condition for the re‐building of the

State in Somalia and that clannishness is not the main factor why Somalia did not have a functioning government for

two decades. I will further posit that a democratic Somalia can co‐exist with maddening tribalism by giving examples.

I will also briefly highlight the internal and external impediments to the formation of a functioning State in Somalia.

Later, I will adapt some political economy models and theories to explain the inaction of many Somali Intellectuals,

the ‘no technical solution’ nature of clan equity formula’s in the context of Somali politics, and the futility of

‘borrowed wisdom’, which refers to the thoughtless use of doctrines which are generally true, but could become

deceptive dogmas when used for contexts and environments for which their relevance is not ascertained.

[NGONGE]

^^ Nudawn is not really interested in any of that. He's just in the mood for pledging, promising and stating his positions. When you gave him room to stretch out his ideas, he told you that you wrote a novel. Naga daaya dee.

[Abtigiis]

He is too young and too sensitive to grasp the real issues! Like a teaser bull, he raises lots of dust and dung only to coil the tail and duck for cover when the bulls with hard horns appear! He knows he will be gored badly.

 

Regardles, we do not bedgruge the young man of his moment. And if it is going to help him, we are happy to call him the alter-ego of Timcadde when it comes to Somalinimo, while calling myself and Ngonge unrepentant faq.ash and sectarian SNM respectively.

 

Tallabo - Thanks for the kind words.

[Tallaabo]

Abtigiis;848313 wrote:

From the sheer weepy introductory post he made, Nudawn is obviously a young person. Welcome to the forum bro, but if your argument is that clan is the problem in Somalia, it is an argument for which no supporting evidence is presented for. Few countries in the world, if any at all, do not have race, clan and ethnic factors that divide their citizens. Yet, there is only one failed state in the world right now - Somalia. One of the deepest clanish sentiment and identity in the Somali peninsula is exhibited in Somaliland, yet Somaliland is the only properly functioning regional state in what used to be Somalia. The amount of hate, mutual suspicion and animosity between the Amhara and the Oromos, or the Amahara and the Tigres, or the Sidama and the Woleita is not milder than the SL-PL, or PL- Galmudug rivalries. The political bad-blood between the Kikuyus and the Luo in Kenya cannot be less poisonous than the internal clan feud between HAG sub-clans!! The bottomline is that clan or clannishness is not why Somalia failed and why it is failing. It is lack of education and visionary leadership. A vibrant Somalia can prevail even if the diseased clannish mentality continues as long as there is a political leadership (a handful of them) that could steer the country forward economically and politically. The allies of Sheikh Sharif today do not come from one single clan. Politics in Somalia is now starting to resemble politics elsewhere in that it is interest - mainly vapid materialism- that drives the belief and actions of politicians. It is why a showdown is inevitable between Faroole and Abdiweli if one or the other finds that the other is an obstacle to his ambitions.

 

Yet all this does not mean clannishness is defensible. It is not. But you should listen to Khadra Dahir's "cudurka kaa gala fardaha, hadii laga gubo dameer" to get the jist of my post! Also, frothily mouthing one's partiotism and cleanliness does not always make one clean, because most of the somali politicians actually say good things about somalinimo in the media. A man I met in Hargeisa recently, clad in all white Tabliqii dress, told mee that he partticipated in the big Tabliiq gathering and that he is added to the list of the Jamaaca that will travel to Bangladesh! Nothing wrong with this, except that he is the same man who was singing "Leyla, oo Laylaa" from the Indian movie "Qurbani" just a month ago to cheering young ladies in summertime! And except that after I reminded him about that epsiode of "Leyla" and jokinly asked if he is truely reformed, he smiled and said " waar dee meesha Bengaladish naago eesh calaa ah baa la gu sheegay" implying that the Tabliiqi Jamaaca are paying his travel expenses so that he has a hot sexual romping in the rice country. So, let us not get too emotional about the nice things we say in this forum. Much more than political correctedness in this forum is to make sure that we actually contribute to the eradication of clanisim by living the life we preach! The posts Xaji Xundjuf and Dr. Osman exchange are the most hilarious, but I am sure they are not any more clanish than the average faarax in this forum.

Very interesting analysis there!! Man... the fake tabliiqi should be stopped.

[Odey]

All this because the guy simply refused to go down the route the rest of the Forum enjoys?. what happened to allowing a difference in opinion?.

 

War dee meeshu ha la isu camiro un baa ka muuqatee?. Abtigis iyo Ngonge naga daaya dee, mar mar xitaa labo feer isku dhufta aanu daawanne, hadii kale meela kale oo ragu ku feertamaan ayaanu aadin!

[NGONGE]

^^ He didn't refuse to discuss it, adeer. He spent five pages discussing it and having you patting his head all the way. But when A&T wasted his time in giving him a different opinion, he started talking about novels.

 

p.s.

I disagree with A&T all the time. He's just grown up enough not to be offended by my words.

[Nudawn]

Lool Odey bro don't worry about these Sol vets, they're just doing what people do best here; over analyse. Ngonge We have two entirely different philosophies indicative of our age group. You being the old clanist eager to post useless topics like the "SSC Predicament", on it's 22nd page if I might add (congrats on the feet). If my pledge preludes the fact I won't be adding to your impressive Rep score then so be it.