World Bank saboteurs at it again.

[Abwaan]

SOLers....Altough this is not the first time money got missing, I hope it will be the last but the question I would like to ask you is Why was it released during the Istanbul Conference week?...Read between the lines.!

[Chimera]

Exactly, that's what annoyed me the most.

 

It shows what kind of a predatory organisation this is

[Abwaan]

Chimera;838828 wrote:

Exactly, that's what annoyed me the most.

 

It shows what kind of a predatory organisation this is

It did not annoy me:D....Rag baa loo dan leeyahay ma is tiri? Isku-haysta Xalay dhaley aan dembi gelin.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

I would like the World Bank to report to us Soomaalis where the collective fees charged against airlines that use Soomaaliya's airspace since mid '90s have gone to?

 

The fees are collected by non-Soomaali corrupt few people in cushy Nayroobi offices in the name of Soomaaliya and Soomaalida. Where did those millions of dollars go?

[NGONGE]

Chimera;838823 wrote:

NGONGE, you're taking the piss, and are arguing for the sake of arguing. I have relatives that run businesses sxb, I have seen their paper work and their audits are done annually, and never back-dated further than that unless its actually necessary. In the case of the TFG, the recent report is old news, and is being recycled by the World Bank, because they are well aware of the fact that the original discovery was made by the Somali Anti-Corruption Committee, not an international organisation, and that this same anti-corruption committee has tackled the issue.

 

Secondly with regards to foreign donations, that issue has also already been delt with through a joint-financial board, where the donor-countries will be in control of where their funds go to on the ground. Therefore the World Bank is clutching at straws and whipping a dead horse of an issue.

I have a relative who is a taxi driver but I still can't locate every street just from hearing its name.

 

If there is one arguing for argument’s sake, it is you saaxib. You come here with no facts; no understanding of audit systems and no actual argument save the one about the timing of the report and, YET, want us to listen to your crazy conspiracy theory about sabotage!

 

I want you to go away and find out what the audit scope was and what periods it were asked to cover (there is no reason why an audit cannot cover a two year period. In fact, many audits cover the periods from January to March of the following year). Furthermore, that an "internal" audit was undertaken does not mean an "external" one shouldn't. I don't know what business your relatives own but we are not talking about a corner shop here, saaxib. Most major organisations and governments use both (though an external one would not (usually) be as intrusive unless there are signs of fraud). At any rate, the infamous Fartaag also released his report at the same time.

 

As for your "secondly" point. Pay attention now; I am not the audit report author and you do not need to justify the shortfalls to me, saaxib. My gripe with you is in your haste to dismiss such a report out of paranoia and, rather than telling us that you're uncomfortable with the timing of the report, you go on to regale us with your non-existent knowledge of auditing and the way it works.

 

Remember, in my first post, I told you that you may be correct and there may be something untoward about the whole thing but since you have no evidence you better stay away from making foolish statements.

 

You want the best for Somalia and are usually full of hope but like I keep telling you a million times, hope alone is not good enough. A change of attitude is needed here. The "us" and "them" nonsense needs to stop. Focus on the "us" alone and strive to improve what are (honestly) an awful government and people. When the World Bank (or anyone else) talks to you about corruption, your first reaction should be to criticise such a serious custom. It should be about discussing, thinking of and finding ways to stem such an awful tradition. If, you, who seems the most reasonable of Somali patriots is allowing his passion to get the better of him and make him frolic amongst the ignorant rabble, what hope has Somalia, saaxib?

 

The report claims that Somalia has no accounting systems and there is no transparency. But is that the case today (putting the joint-financial board to one side for now)? Is the shop-keeper mentality prevalent all across Somalia’s financial world (from the accounts of the small municipalities to that of the TFG)? Remember, the joint-financial board is only likely to deal with money coming in and the way it’s distributed amongst the various government institutions but who is going to oversee those and who is going to keep an eye on the money there? There are millions of questions this report should have triggered in your head and none of them have anything to do with paranoia or "the man".

 

The International Community (with Turkey at its head) have decided to help Somalia out. The wheels are already in motion and the roadmap is in place. Even if we argue that the World Bank has ulterior motives (which, with the evidence we have, is a far-fetched argument anyway) the process is not likely to stop. So what happens next? Well, like I told you earlier, this could only be nothing but good news. It means that those c*****ng the way for Somalia to stand on its own feet are going to tighten the noose around the TFG and ensure that funds are properly received, spent and accounted for. It means that there is hope yet for the Somalia of your dreams. Only the thieves that plunder Somalia’s money should be upset about such a report, everyone else should rejoice. Wax fahan.

[Mario B]

I agree with Ngonge, as long as we don't have an independent auditor and national audit office, even if the TFG are not stealing they will still be seen as crooks. Only through financial transparency, are we going to save the republic, the sooner this happens the better.

[genius pauper.]

political innocence is to blame for the confussion. An independent financial board entails a diplomatic audit rather than a ''financial'' one. International relations entails entails interest and influence.

The overhead costs incurred by the board has to be bored from the ''loan'' fund. The board will dictate the expenditure and on which projects.

They call it EHM. Economic hit men do it.

In my opinion, it ain't good.

[Mario B]

^^ I agree, we need financial sovereignty, but I can torelate the board as long as the money is not coming from IMF and World Bank but instead from burgetary support and aid. Poor countries should not be put in debt, either help them or stay away. I know the world doesn't work that way, unfortunatley.

[Chimera]

That is the lamest analogy if I ever heard one, your relative's command of "knowledge" is alot more complicated than accounting, one makes your brain grow for a reason.

 

Nobody asked you to comment on this topic NGONGE. If I want to share my personal interpretation of a suspiciously leaked report coinciding with a major event than I have ever right in the world to do so, this is an internet forum not a PHD thesis. There were no billboards inserted in the original post with the signage NGONGE PLEASE REPLY, so spare me your attempt at psycho-analysing me, and the baseless claim that I don't know the process of "auditing", which you can't even deduce from my post in the first place.

 

This is about an old report being recycled at a time of a major conference for reconstruction funds, that in my opinion is tantamount to sabotage, because we know Turkey is on board, but what about Switzerland, what about Malaysia. what about Denmark? Such a report at this particular time could scare them off, and how is that beneficial to Somalia? You can't transparently spend reconstruction funds that aren't pledged, so how would this report benefit Somalia? That was the original intention of my post. All this "you should contact the World Bank about the report" or 'internal/external' auditing stuff you mentioned in that reply is neither here nor there. In fact its irrelevant.

 

The World Bank does business with various African governments who embezzle billions on a yearly basis, and business continues as usual, yet for some reason this same organisation feels the need to investigate and release a report about a government getting back on its feet at the time of a major conference? Yet you dismiss this as conspiracy? LOL

 

I'm not Captain Somalia, this topic has nothing to do with my dreams. I'm being realistic here, Somalia will not be corruption free overnight, not even with the anti-corruption committee currently in place. In fact there was never a period in Somali history where a government was 100% clean, so why should we focus on these missing scraps that could derail the big prize of long-term stability which will result in billions worth of infrastructure and saving of priceless lives?

 

Let these few daanyeers stealing money keep lining their pockets for as long as they stay committed to ending the transition and bringing in a permanent government with its own strong institutions. The likes of Farmaajo learned the hard way when you clean the boat too fast, you capsize, so this has to be a long-term process, where the war-economy is steadily replaced by a more sustainable economy that benefits all groups including politicians and the citizens.

 

You guys are too idealistic, there is corruption even in the west in both government and business, with entire economies going bust, cut Somalia some slack as it slowly recovers, it needs all the major funds it can get, and little scraps can not be the undoing of these potential plans for reconstruction.

[Qandalawi]

Its not as if the TFG had any credibility anyway, or any Somali leader for that matter. We all know their level of fraud and corruption.

 

The report was not big deal.

[NGONGE]

Chimera;838933 wrote:

That is the lamest analogy if I ever heard one, your relative's command of "knowledge" is alot more complicated than accounting, one makes your brain grow for a reason.

 

Nobody asked you to comment on this topic NGONGE. If I want to share my personal interpretation of a suspiciously leaked report coinciding with a major event than I have ever right in the world to do so, this is an internet forum not a PHD thesis. There were no billboards inserted in the original post with the signage NGONGE PLEASE REPLY, so spare me your attempt at psycho-analysing me, and the baseless claim that I don't know the process of "auditing", which you can't even deduce from my post in the first place.

 

Never had you down as one that had hissyfits, Adam. Ok. I’ll humour you and try the Somali style of stroking your beard into listening.

 

Saaxib, this is not personal. You’re a good guy who made a simple mistake. We all do from time to time. It is no big deal. If my words hurt your pride in any way, be the big man and let them pass.

 

The World Bank probably publishes reports about all sorts of countries. But in this instance it did one about Somalia. To say that it’s not fair and that it should do one about the NGOs in Nairobi or the fraudulent Nigerians is akin to little kids shouting “why are you telling me off, you never tell Cabdi off?”. It’s childish, it’s irrelevant and it’s beside the point.

 

I asked you to go find out about the audit scope, objective and information so that you would, understand why the audit was commissioned, what were its terms of reference and any details relating to it. Only then could you (with a straight face) claim that it is an old report or that it was an attempt at sabotage. But, you were hasty saaxib (this might have even strengthened your argument). We all get hasty from time to time though. Waa caadi.

 

Your argument about some countries not pledging any funds because of this report is somewhat plausible, I suppose. But I disagree with it simply because of the timing of the report. This took place during the Istanbul conference when the champions of Somali future (none of them Somali by the way) were all there to lobby any doubters and ensure that the show must go on. Plus, any country that went this far anyway is not likely to back out just because of a report. They all went in knowing how bad the Somali situation IS. It’s not a blind date, saaxib.

 

Hang on; let me stroke your beard one more time before I deliver my next point. Are you calm? Ok, here goes;

The issue of corruption is indeed found all over the world (from MPs expenses and Police bribes in the hacking scandal in the UK to convicts in the jails of India becoming members of parliament) but just because it is found everywhere does not mean it should be condoned, brushed under the carpet or ignored. I told you earlier it is all about a change of attitude, saaxib. The beard stroking that I’ve been mocking you with here is a Somali custom. It is the very ugly tradition of saying “inaga daaya” in order to keep the peace and get on with things. IT IS WRONG and vulgar.

 

The roadmap is going ahead regardless. The only people that can stop it or derail it are Somalis. The only people that can make it work are also Somalis. Somalis like yourself that profess to love their homeland and dream of seeing it back on its feet again. But for that to work, you need to be strong in word and in deed, saaxib. As for being idealistic; idealistic is to memorise the entire history of Somalia but not have a clue about how the future should look like, saaxib. What I am telling you here is practical, pragmatic and RIGHT.

 

Finally (and with a parting stroke of the beard) let me comment on your angry protestation about my contribution to this thread. I agree that you didn’t invite me to comment here but I thought the invitation was implicit (next time maybe you should specify who you want to reply to your threads, saaxib). At any rate, I merely reply to your threads over those of the many kids on here because I believe you to be a cut above the many simpletons that post on SOL. For, believe you me, had I thought you to be a duplicitous man full of humbug I would not have wasted my time posting reply after reply on this thread (stuff and nonsense would have sufficed).

 

Now clam down and see the sense in my words.

[genius pauper.]

@ngonge you sound an audacity filled intellectual who fails to realise the debate protocol.

personal attack is different from arguing a point. Whatever your opinion was, it ended up blaming adam for not knowing audit, and branding his views a ''dream''.

Yakheey practise what you preach.

 

it is an integral pillar of debates, to argue your points for and against an issue, rather than ending up on the opponents neck. A sign of intellectual immaturity,

[NGONGE]

genius pauper.;839044 wrote:

@ngonge you sound an audacity filled intellectual who fails to realise the debate protocol.

personal attack is different from arguing a point. Whatever your opinion was, it ended up blaming adam for not knowing audit, and branding his views a ''dream''.

Yakheey practise what you preach.

 

it is an integral pillar of debates, to argue your points for and against an issue, rather than ending up on the opponents neck. A sign of intellectual immaturity,

Points for and against an issue? Have you been reading the thread, O keeper of "intellectual discourse"?

(as for pointing out that someone is talking humbug; well there really is no nice way of saying, no matter how subtle one is when saying it).

[SayidSomal]

LOL@ stroking beard :D

 

I am with Ngonge on this - minus the soft softly approach - Chimera - brought this upon himself.

[Chimera]

NGONGE, yes that was a clear cut hissyfit, a temper tantrum indeed. Let's not kid ourselves you have been doing this for a while now, and I told you before that I don't need to be psycho-analysed, nor is it your duty to put my feet on the ground from the so-called stratosphere of my dreams, in fact you have no right, no matter how much respect I have for the old NGONGE (I don't recognise the new one).

 

I posted the topic as is, without a single source, because it was never my intention to spark a debate. This was plain "drive-by posting" on my part. I don't know whether you've noticed, but my contributions to the politics section is next to nothing, because I don't enjoy that chesspool, and prefer to do a drive-by post every once in the blue moon. However in the last couple of months, every time I drove by the politics section you've put an isbaaro on me with a myriad of intellectual questions, huh? That's like having a science debate in a sewer, dude I'm not interested in long-winded debates, nor am I interested in winning people over. That was the old me, with lots of energy, lots of spirit, lots of hope, who went under a different monniker and always came with statistics and studies, but this is the new me who couldn't care less about winning debates or arguments on the internet, but since its you I'm always forced to honour you with a reply.

 

Therefore the whole "you don't know the system of auditing'' was a strange claim to say the least, because this was about an organisation that did not comment on the original discovery ages ago but found it necessary to publish a new report on the eve of a major conference about that same discovery as if it were new. How convenient! Neither did they mention the year 2011 after the anti-corruption measures were initiated, and that my friend is "selective auditing". That was my point, and there is no amount of explaining the protocols or proceedures of that organisation that could change my perception that it was plain "sabotage", I know the World Bank's shady history in Somalia's economy, therefore I am by default biased against them, and so they enjoy no good faith with me.

 

I posted that, and I had no other intention, but who dropped an isbaaro on my path of escape from the politics section for the umpteenth time? NGONGE did!! What makes you think anything about the conflict is RIGHT? This conflict is the most absurd thing I have ever seen in my life, to think when I was playing with Ninja Turtles and power-rangers action-figures almost two decades ago, these fools were fighting, and to see them still fight as my little nephew plays with the modern Pokemon toys of today is MADNESS! I absolutely do not want to see my children or even my nephew to experience this mind-boggling absurdity of time and space when they're my age. This in many ways is Somalia's last chance, and nothing should rock the boat because another decade of retarded pointless war and the people there are finished, finito.

 

Is it really that hard to understand why I could tolerate a few unpatriotic danyeers to steals scraps, knowing the absurdity of the conflict and why it must come to an end for the sake of our people? Is it really that hard to understand why I panicked at this "convenient" report that could have damaged Somalia's chances for reconstruction? Is it really that hard to understand that I do not enjoy political debates because win or loose, it will not change the situation on the ground?

 

The situation however is finally changing for the better, but there are many that will loose out in Somalia's rise from the ashes, and the little minnow officials stealing some scraps are the last group I'm worried about, they're a by-products of war, whose significance will diminish with peace. You see, a country can have corruption and still enjoy peace, but a country can never enjoy transparency or accountability while still at war, that scenario is only available in a peaceful environment, and that is the only goal - for now - we should be focusing on. so stroke as many beards as you can I say!