From Kali-talisnimo to Kali-federalismo

[ElPunto]

Carafaat - waxay kaga dhegtay federalism. What is so inherently bad about federalism that dozens of countries and regions before us have found? What is the difference between the decentralization you favour and federalism? What does it matter if certain clans predominate in certain areas as long as everyone has the same rights - ie your obsession with 'clan' federalism? You sound like a broken record.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Guys lets just wait and see how Clan federalism evolves in the next coming years Raskambooni Azania forces are now in Afmadow lets see how it goes , bal idinku ciyaarta dawada.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

ElPunto;836598 wrote:

Carafaat - waxay kaga dhegtay federalism. What is so inherently bad about federalism that dozens of countries and regions before us have found? What is the difference between the decentralization you favour and federalism? What does it matter if certain clans predominate in certain areas as long as everyone has the same rights - ie your obsession with 'clan' federalism? You sound like a broken record.

Did you read the Puntland constitution they are talking about a Puntland citizenship:D

[ElPunto]

^Dee idinka albabkaas furay. Salida see loo ilalinaaya hadii xaaji walba isxadirayo

[Carafaat]

ElPunto;836598 wrote:

Carafaat - waxay kaga dhegtay federalism. What is so inherently bad about federalism that dozens of countries and regions before us have found? What is the difference between the decentralization you favour and federalism? What does it matter if certain clans predominate in certain areas as long as everyone has the same rights - ie your obsession with 'clan' federalism? You sound like a broken record.

ElPunto,

 

With federalism itself is nothing wrong. But we Somali's tend to confuse the allocation of power with the sovereign power.

So to decide that regions get a mandate or power on many diffrent issue's, big budget, number of seats according to regions in Parliament, I dont have any problem with. But laying the sovereignity or sovereign power with federal states is a receipt for disaster sxb, certainly in the Somalia context with the risk of down drillings to sub-sub levels.

 

The recent example of parts of "states" opposing and others supporting and participating in the Turkey Conference. And thus creating more chaos is undesirable.

 

Imagine if a small dispute small breaks out between two "states" and if states are sovereign they can decide which side to support and how to get advantage from it. Sxb, it will become the Somali version of the dark ages.

[Carafaat]

ElPunto;836609 wrote:

^Dee idinka albabkaas furay. Salida see loo ilalinaaya hadii xaaji walba isxadirayo

You are right. On many positive and negative things Somaliland like gave the example. tusbaxan kala datay Somaliland ayaa furtay, Somaliland uun ayaa laga so xiri karaa. But that will be difficult if Somalia falls apart in dozens of "states".

[ElPunto]

Carafaat;836622 wrote:

ElPunto,

 

With federalism itself is nothing wrong. But we Somali's tend to confuse the

allocation of power

with the

sovereign power

.

So to decide that regions get a mandate or power on many diffrent issue's, big budget, number of seats according to regions in Parliament, I dont have any problem with. But laying the sovereignity or sovereign power with federal states is a receipt for disaster sxb, certainly in the Somalia context with the risk of down drillings to sub-sub levels.

 

The recent example of parts of "states" opposing and others supporting and participating in the Turkey Conference. And thus creating more chaos is undesirable.

 

Imagine if a small dispute small breaks out between two "states" and if states are sovereign they can decide which side to support and how to get advantage from it. Sxb, it will become the Somali version of the

dark ages.

What is soveriegn power as you see it? If that is explicitly delineated in a future Somali state - where will the conflict come from? Currently there is no real system and you're projecting the current political mess and wrangling on a potential system that is yet to be worked out.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

El punto you didn't understand carafaat he said if a state has sovereignty over its own so called territory it will undermine the power of the central government for example the semi autonomous region of Puntland does that when ever they have a political conflict with the TFG.

[ElPunto]

^Xaaji manta madan soo qayilin miya? If sovereign powers are delineated there is no conflict. In the current situation nothing has been agreed to and as such PL does as it wishes.

[Carafaat]

ElPunto;836650 wrote:

^Xaaji manta madan soo qayilin miya? If sovereign powers are delineated there is no conflict. In the current situation nothing has been agreed to and as such PL does as it wishes.

Exactly! Then what would happen if we agreed that everyone("state") does what it wants and has power to do so.

[ElPunto]

^But that isn't what a federal system entails - if it was you'd have a point. But you know better than that. Adiga stop sounding like a meaningless broken record.

[Carafaat]

your own words sxb.

[ElPunto]

Have you finally fallen silent on this issue?

[Carafaat]

if sovereign power lies with the states(hence they do with that power as they wish) you predict there wont be anymore conflict without giving any factors on which your assumption is based. I say there will be more conflict, see the proof of the current states undermining the national goverment.

[ElPunto]

I'm not sure you have defined what specific sovereign powers you're talking about. There are sovereign powers that individual American states have. And soveriegn powers that the federal govt of the USA has. Because these have been delineated and agreed upon mutually - there aren't conflicts. So what is it that you're talking about again?