Why Bomb Afghanistan?

[nuune]

^^ Nur, good answer, Maashaa Allaah.

 

Ninkan xarkaha goostey in seetada qumaati loogu adkeeyo weeye.

[Nur]

Baarkallau feek akhi Nuunne, laakin usoo ducee, waa nin daciifa ahee, tabar uu naarta Allah uga baxsado ma hayee.

 

Nur

[Raamsade]

Originally posted by Nur:

Of course Raamsade, your beliefs do really complement each other:

 

1. There is NO GOD

2. IF THERE IS A GOD, ITS PROBABLY AMERICA, VERY POWERFUL, THUS NEVER WRONG BECAUSE IT HAS NO ONE TO ANSWER TO!

 

 

Nur

There is certainly no ET called God, Allah, Yahwe, Elohim, Vishnu, Osiris or what have you. But even ETs, if they exist, can be wrong as is America. For instance, it was wrong for America to invade Iraq but was absolutely justified in its invasion of Afghanistan.

 

This is beauty of being a freethinker; I'm not bound by any dogma and orthodoxy. I take positions as dictated by my conscience and reasoning; not what some bearded pretender or ancient tome says.

 

You, on the other hand, must always support a Muslim against an Unbeliever regardless of who is right or wrong on any particular issue. To you the Taliban were correct to refuse cooperation with NATO demands even though it was worst possible choice they could've made by every rational consideration.

 

The fact remains, had the Taliban cooperated with NATO and not chosen to put Jihadi solidarity over the welfare of their people or even their own naked self-interest, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Nur]

Raamsade

 

You write:

 

"You must always support a Muslim against an Unbeliever regardless of who is right or wrong on any particular issue"

 

 

My starting point is that I have a God ( Allah) to whom I owe my life and who will eventually take it back, and then who will raise me alive and audit my contributions on earth and for humanity.

 

Your starting point is that you are GOD, that you have created yourself through shear probabilities evolving from non-intelligent matter to your current state of very complex well organized intelligent matter called Raamsade.

 

I find perfection in my Maker, and imperfection in people, including myself. I always point out these imperfections mostly found in non-believers ( be they those who claim to be Muslims but their actions speaks volumes of Kufr, or honest Kuffar like yourself)

 

 

Thus, Islam, which I champion on these pages, and those truly dedicated for Islam and wise Kuffar, always agree by obedience or by common sense with Allah, while I find everyone else, kuffar and their "Muslim Moderate allies" to be in manifest errors for all the issues they disagree with the revelations.

 

 

As for you, I have yet to see, a single instance in which you have defended Muslims or Islam, to show the impartiality that you claim.

 

 

Nur

[LayZie G.]

^Nur, forget what he claims, or what he or others belief. Lets focus on the issue at hand, are you an impartial observer when it comes to the 'Afghan Invasion'?

 

If yes, why do you entertain the views of 9/11 conspiracy theorists? Why are you obessed with sources that support just outlandish charges, namely Bush was behind the 9/11 attack?

 

 

Yes, 9/11 was indirectly due to past aggressions caused by American foreign policy but anything else is just absurd and unsubstantiated.

 

The recent source you posted about the Professor is just another theatrical moment meant to entertain gullible audience. (most of his work lies with the grievances raised by folks like yourself and his own grievances against the 9/11 commission, thats just not enough.)

 

If the answer to the above question is No, why are you wasting your time if you have already convinced yourself about this charade? Why drag this obession about 9/11 and the afghan invasion any furtheR? 2001 to present is a long time, dont you agree?

[Nur]

Lazie G.

 

You write:

 

"Are you an impartial observer when it comes to the afghan invasion."

 

Impartiality of judgement implies availability of mainstream neutral news sources about the subject matter, which you know for sure that it does not exist. More and more people are turning to the internet to get unfiltered information like eNuri News, the platform of those who have no other platform.

 

If you are against ALL conspiracy theories, you should not believe the governments account that some 19 Saudi terrorists who were being directed by a sick man in a cave in Afghanistan, took some hasty flying classes for couple of months in Florida ( Studied in English Language, but would later refer to their Arabic manuals to fly the planes according to official news), who were armed with box cutters, flawlessly flew at very low altitude and sharply maneuvered three wide body commercial planes perfectly to their targets, and as evidence leaving behind ARABIC LANGUAGE flying manual in their rented car at the airport.

 

Unfortunately after the crash, the Black boxes could not be found because they all melted in the jet fuel fire heat that melted the entire steel structure of the building in the same time it takes a professional demolition company to bring a building down, but conveniently a clean Saudi Passport of one of the terrorists was found lying clean in the ruble, being the only passport on site as the evidence that warranted the invasion of Afghanistan, because the other passport they found was contested by a guy in Jeddah, Mr. Al Ghamdi, the mysterious twentieth terrorist? which embarrassed your reliable authorities and forced them to retract their story. Which makes you wonder, why can't they manufacture the airplane black boxes with the same ultra heat resistant material like the Saudi Passports?

 

Conspiracy Theory is said to be true ONLY when ALL people refuse to believe in it. That is when it has done a great job in fooling ALL the people, but Like Kennedy said, its not possible to fool all of the people all of the time.

 

But don't get me wrong sis. you have a fundamental right to believe the government version of 911, of the Weapons of Mass destruction found in Iraq which justified its invasion and the killing of 1.5 Million Iraqis, Niger Uranium Transfer to Iraq, and many stories in the news that are all TRUE because the government can not lie to its own people, and would not hurt its own people, because that is absurd.

 

This platform, balances the official story that you believe in, with another version that is gaining more and more believers as events unfold before us, and its normal that you see it absurd, just like many people thought the Watergate cover up was absurd.

 

If your objection is to the age of this thread ( 2001- 2010), the reason I am posting on the same thread is for archiving purposes, it helps a lot of new readers follow the story as it developed from 2001, that is the beauty of the internet age, every thing is captured and kept forever, not only by the servers and hosts of SOL, but also by readers who can get a copy of entire thread with a single keystroke.

 

If on the other hand your objection is due to the occupation of Afghanistan, it shouldn't bother you at all, unless you are a party to the injustice the befell that innocent nation, which continues to this day, as long as the occupation continues, writers will be writing about it, and eNuri will be selecting best ones for this OLD page. I am sure you agree that truth and justice have no expiration date, those with short span of attention, or memory, are doomed to repeat it.

 

 

Nur

[LayZie G.]

Watergate? LOL

 

Iraq and WMD?

 

C'mon, I thought we were talking about 9/11 conspiracy and afghan invasion, when did we get into the Iraq War and Saddam Hussein?

 

Because you presume to know what my belief is about the Iraq War and the so called WMD, you might as well know that just like you, I too believe that the Iraq War was unjustified war and illegal under international law long before Bush's ultimatum to Saddam Hussein on the eve of the war.

 

I never believed the Iraq War was about WMD, just for the simple fact that the UN position at the time made more sense to me(diplomacy over confrontation, disarmament if such weapons existed and compiling with UNSC resolutions) than the findings of Bush's cronies and immediate action.

 

Its unfortunate that Iraq was invaded under false pretense but thats done and over with, no sense in going back, don't you agree?

 

As for the unfiltered news, why is it that I do not see you reporting the heinous crimes committed in the hands of your beloved Taliban in Afghanistan and the so called "Pakistani Taliban"?

 

I think it was last year when the Afghan Taliban dropped poisoneous gas on all girls school somewhere in remote Afghan province, 80 or so girls were later hospitalized all because they did not want the girls to attend school, which means the girls did not follow the decree and as a result, they paid heavy price.

 

Why don't I read about your so called unfiltered source of news about masjid bombings and suicide tactics by those criminals?

 

Why is your reporting always about the pro-west forces in the region but never about the militant murders who are resisting surrender?

 

Remember, nothing America does shocks me. American Presidents are all the same, whether it is Obama and his drones or Bush Jr, Sr or even Mr Watergate himself or LBJ and his mass bomb raids. American Presidents since Vietnam and long before that never misrepresented themselves. If America's interest oversees is threatened, they will do whatever it takes, even if it means invading other countries, thats how American Foreign Policy was defined since the Spanish-American War.

 

In Vietnam, it was Mr Watergate himself who vetoed a bill to consult congress prior to committing soldier, this was the same man who was bombing north vietnam(left by his predecessor) while Kissinger was in peace negotiations with the enemy.

 

Technically, we can declare the vietnam War as illegal in the eyes of the United States constitution because technically congress never declared war but they found themselves in the middle of it for close to 20 years.

 

United States is many things but one thing it is not is a mastermind behind 9/11. If anything, they were out of the loop.

 

Yes, an arab can roam around American cities the same way maryooleys can leave canada for the United States and take up an identity of a friend or relative in order to gain employment and keep up the pretense for a very long time without a detection. Thats the America you need to know, not the America that you think planned an attack on its infrastructure and caused the death of its citizens.

 

This platform, balances the official story that you believe in, with another version that is gaining more and more believers as events unfold before us, and its normal that you see it absurd, just like many people thought the Watergate cover up was absurd.

Based on your answer above, I will take the answer to my question as a yes. Balanced means representing the two sides equally and you are nowhere near close to being impartial on anything to do with that part of the region.

 

Lets try again, shall we?

[Nur]

LaZei G sis writes:

 

 

 

A wise conclusion sis, that speaks volumes!

 

Nur

[LayZie G.]

What does your faith in your imaginary friend Allah have to do with the topic of this thread? The Taliban also believed they had a friend in Allah but he wasn't there for them when they needed him the most. I guess Allah isn't the best of friends.

We should all learn to exercise some restraint when speaking of Allah or the nabi(PBUH) because words are powerful and words have consequences. DO NOT BE THE BAIT in John Donne's poem with your verbal arsenal against the almighty, creator of this universe by making out to be somebody from next door or "describe him to be an imagined figure",

For thee, thou need'st no such deceit,

from Nur or atleast as John Donne would have us believe.

 

Its no accident that in this world, there are more believers living than there are of non-believers and you do them disservice when you belittle their creator. Not believing and mocking are two different things, which is why I believe you have the right to question God to you heart's content and go as far as not believing "in God" but you do not have the right to mock God.

[Nur]

LazieG

 

Baarkallahu feeke ukhtii, may Allah accept your bold dtand for his cause:

 

Allah SWT says in Surah Ancaam:

 

(saying): " 93..................And if you could but see when the Zalimun (Raamsade and his ilk) are in the agonies of death, while the angels are stretching forth their hands (saying): "Deliver your souls! This day you shall be recompensed with the torment of degradation because of what you used to utter against Allah other than the truth. And you used to reject His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) with disrespect!

 

94. And truly you have come unto Us alone (without wealth, companions or anything else) as We created you the first time. And you have left behind you all that which We had bestowed on you. We see not with you your backers whom you claimed to be as powerful as Allah. Now all relations between you and them have been cut off, and all that you used to claim has vanished from you"

 

 

Nur

[Raamsade]

Originally posted by LayZie G.:

We should all learn to exercise some restraint when speaking of Allah or the nabi(PBUH) because words are powerful and words have consequences.

Let us be frank, words have "consequences" only if you are a follower of a believe system that endorses the assassination of poets and satirists. If not then words are just words.

 

 

Originally posted by LayZie G.:

Its no accident that in this world, there are more believers living than there are of non-believers

Ever heard of the fallacy of Argumentum Ad Populum?

 

 

Originally posted by LayZie G.:

and you do them disservice when you belittle their creator. Not believing and mocking are two different things, which is why I believe you have the right to question God to you heart's content and go as far as not believing "in God" but you do not have the right to mock God.

What are you on about? I haven't mocked any ET. I simply expressed my views. As an atheist I believe all ETs are false and perforce imaginary. That is what I believe just like you and Nur believe there is an ET called Allah. If you're free to express your believe in Allah, should I not have the right to express mine?

 

Mind you it wasn't I that broached the topic of Allah, it was Nur who gratuitously inserted Allah into a political discussion.

 

I'm quite surprised about you. This is out of character behavior for you. Which leads me to suspect that you're atoning for your sins in the Holy Trinity thread. I'm strapped for time now so we'll respond to that thread another time.

[nuune]

^^ RAAMSADE Wax dhintey baad tahay, oo u baahan rescue, you have being given the platform to air your silly posts doesn't mean you have to mock Allah and call names,

 

if Lyzie-Girl corrected you, and told you not to mock the Master of the Universe, Allah, what has she done to you, what were you expecting her to do, be on your side and call Allah names etc, wax isku fal, meyd aan dhiman baad tahay oo u baahan in la dillaaciyo si looga soo daadiyo uurku-jirtada quruntey ee dhax daadsan qalbigaaga,

 

 

bro Nur, don't hold any more respect for this malice and menace, I have being following the posts all along, he doesn't deserve that much respect anymore, he is not here to have a descent discussion with you or with anyone else, he is here to mislead others, call Muslims bad names, redicule Islam, which he fails all the time, and now he went too far, to the lowest of the lowest, by mocking Allah and calling names, Subxaanallaah.

 

 

As Layzie-Girl already told you, you don't believe in Allah, but you come along the way to mock Allah, what does that says about you, I believe Bro Nur inuu kaa xishoonayo, and he has still hopes for you, respect others as they respect you.

 

Atheist kaa falfal xun waligeey maan arag, first you need other atheists to rescue you, and teach you how to respect people and other faiths, then after that, come to us and have discussion with us, have good manners, and learn how to have a healthy debate with people.

 

But you are a Somali atheist, which is a sad story, and you want to preach to us by mocking Almighty God.

[Polanyi]

Faith in Allah doesn't mean that Muslims don't anticipate temporary defeats and setbacks. Muslims believe that they will eventually become victorious oVER their adversaries, oppressors and people who cause injustice. This is what Mullah Mohamed Umar said to the VOA in 2001:

 

 

VOA: Do you know that the US has announced a war on terrorism?

 

Omar: I am considering two promises. One is the promise of God, the other is that of Bush. The promise of God is that my land is vast. If you start a journey on God's path, you can reside anywhere on this earth and will be protected... The promise of Bush is that there is no place on earth where you can hide that I cannot find you. We will see which one of these two promises is fulfilled.

 

VOA: But aren't you afraid for the people, yourself, the Taliban, your country?

 

Omar: Almighty God... is helping the believers and the Muslims. God says he will never be satisfied with the infidels. In terms of worldly affairs, America is very strong. Even if it were twice as strong or twice that, it could not be strong enough to defeat us. We are confident that no one can harm us if God is with us.

Some 9 years later and the West is willing to negotiate with the Taliban and conceed to letting the Taliban have a say in the political affairs of Afghanistan, so long as they compromise on certain issues.

[Raamsade]

Originally posted by nuune:

^^

RAAMSADE

Wax dhintey baad tahay, oo u baahan rescue, you have being given the platform to air your silly posts doesn't mean you have to mock Allah and call names,

This is called the Glenn Beck Syndrome (GBS for short). You sound like Glen Beck accusing President Obama of hating white people. Every honest and right-thinking person knows that Glenn is merely projecting his own hatred of black people onto President Obama.

 

It is your own prejudice and hatred against Somalis who don't share your views that is mocking and disrespectful. Nothing I've written can be remotely interpreted as "mocking" by ANY rational and unbiased being. You exhibit the same mentality that destroyed Somalis -- the insatiable drive to monopolize everything for a limited group be it your clan or your family or your coreligionists. Let go of this provisional and chauvinistic mindset and embrace pluralism.

 

The sooner you accept Somalis who different from you in believes, political views, clan extraction, sexual orientation or whatnot, the sooner these perceived slights against your "God" will disappear.

 

 

The quote below essentially bears out everything I've written above.

 

 

Originally posted by nuune:

But you are a Somali atheist, which is a sad story,

Why is it sad to be Somali atheist? What happened to respecting other people's believes (or lack of)?

[Cawaale]

Originally posted by Raamsade:

quote:Originally posted by nuune:

But you are a Somali atheist, which is a sad story,

Why is it sad to be Somali atheist? What happened to respecting other people's believes (or lack of)?

what is sadder than seeing an empty soul!. You don't believe in God or religion so be it.

Stop attacking other people's faith(which is by the way more precious then their own lives). i see you committed intellectual suicide with out even knowing it, and the concept of God is too complex for you to comprehend. So spare us with your nonsense.

 

Just because your are living in vacuum and(think) your existence is pointless, it doesn't give you the right to bash other people's faith.

 

PS.Did i tell you what we think about people like you? if i do so, you surely will be offended.