Should We be Concerned about small things: mixing, smoking etc?

[Abu-Salman]

One of the SOLer brother wrote about some idea we commonly hold:

 

Naxar, that has to do with interpretation. Just 20 years ago Music, khat, cigarrettes, mixed weddings etc etc werent seen as a big deal amongst Somalis. But the Shaykhs we had returning from Saudi Arabia brought with them the Salafi/Wahabi interpretation of the deen. All of a sudden a man who sits down for khat once a week after a hard days work is a major sinner, akin to someone who drinks. And attending the wedding of a family member is unthinkable because of the music.

 

Im not condoning the things i listed above, but i think our shaykhs sumtimes overly condemn some relatively benign things and overlook others that are quite serious in their effects.

 

Indeed, such things were often not a "big deal" and it was more common to hear music among Somalis, with people well versed into the artists and their alluring lyrics, than Quran.

 

Yet, one precisely need to regularly read or connect with the Quran more often than ever in this age of endless distractions and distorted thinking; is that even possible when constantly getting enticed by music, something that has strong influence on human minds and promote very different messages?

 

On another note, I was just shocked to hear the other night that households spending on tobacco surpassed those on health or educations in many developing countries while experts confirm that the now chic shisha is even extremely worse health-wise (all those young Somalis adding shisha to the mix when already severly deficient in non-manufactured, natural food, clean air, Vitamin D etc).

Also, addictive substances such as cigarettes and whisky are now heavily advertised in places such as Africa.

 

Actually, countless countries are now facing public health disasters caused by chronic disorders (diabete, heart disease or cancer) even before their "easier" infectious diseases burden have not been eliminated.

 

And we are not even talking here about greed related international issues such as environmental catastrophes or usury (poorest countries forced to repay many times over their mismanaged national debt or countless enslaved households in the West).

 

So could we not say that indeed, qat, smoking, drinking and mixing are some of the worst disasters, precisely for those and many other reasons (economic, social or familial)?

 

Maybe all of us must regularly read alcohol activists newsletters and public health or criminality and poverty academic papers to realise the full extent of the ravages created by "small things" such as drinks, qat, smoking or sexual indulgence (more children born out of wedlock than in marriages among many communities such as Black Americans).

 

From the absent or abusive father to the mother focused on social events, saving money for villas and other relatives marrying again while not providing adequately for their existent children and then harassing for more money to waste youngsters already struggling abroad, it's very clear that much of our suffering is self-inflicted (economic and other forms of oppression aside).

 

Thus, not everyone will agree that "neglect of the prophet's sunnah is the source of all problems" as summarized by a scholar but we can readily observe in our communities or extended families that most if not all avoidable suffering comes from substances including Qat concomitantly with consumerism as well as lack of patience and self-restraint...

 

 

 

PS: groups or parts of a group with unwise methods is not enough to blind someone from the truth (eg, some here were misinformed about Islam long before Al Shabab);

does the atrocities of Maoists or Stalinists signify that economic redistribution is evil and not actually one of the very most civilised human endeavor?

[Wadani]

Abu-Salman;819878 wrote:

One of the SOLer brother wrote about some idea we commonly hold:

 

 

 

 

Indeed, such things were often not a "big deal" and it was more common to hear music among Somalis, with people well versed into the artists and their alluring lyrics, than Quran.

 

This isnt true brother, Somalis have always studiesd the Quran for hundreds of years, whether they lived in cities or the miyi/baadiye, regardless of their interest and indulgence in the arts/songs.

 

Yet, one precisely need to regularly read or connect with the Quran more often than ever in this age of endless distractions and distorted thinking; is that even possible when constantly getting enticed by music, something that has strong influence on human minds and promote very different messages?

 

This also isnt true. This whole notion that the Quran and all types of music are psychologically and spiritually mutually exclusive, where only one can take a place within the persons psyche, is a false dichotomy. I agree with you that the vast majority of music, especially western music, is filthy and haraam. But we shouldnt throw out the baby with the bath water. I find many Somali songs to be full of wisdom and life lessons, and i dont feel any further from the deen or the Quran after listening to them.

 

On another note, I was just shocked to hear the other night that households spending on tobacco surpassed those on health or educations in many developing countries while experts confirm that the now chic shisha is even extremely worse health-wise (all those young Somalis adding shisha to the mix when already severly deficient in non-manufactured, natural food, clean air, Vitamin D etc).

Also, addictive substances such as cigarettes and whisky are now heavily advertised in places such as Africa.

 

I dont disagree with this. But here is my point. Y do wadaads treat tobacco and khat as imorral, akin to drinking and gambling. The appraoch to qat and smkoing should be similar to our appraoch to fast food, which has just as much adverse health affects if not more. Lets take out the issue of morality when it comes to this and ill be the first one to condemn it. Or else we're being unjust to many upright men, who just happen to smoke or chew.

 

Actually, countless countries are now facing public health disasters caused by chronic disorders (diabete, heart disease or cancer) even before their "easier" infectious diseases burden have not been eliminated.

 

This is true, but lack of exercise and poor eating habits contributes to this equally or more than qat or smoking. Yet i dont see wadaads making fatwas that fast food is haraam. Y the inconsistency.

 

And we are not even talking here about greed related international issues such as environmental catastrophes or usury (poorest countries forced to repay many times over their mismanaged national debt or countless enslaved households in the West).

 

So could we not say that indeed, qat, smoking, drinking and mixing are some of the worst disasters, precisely for those and many other reasons (economic, social or familial)?

 

Yes we can, but moral judgements about piety/and the lack there of should be left out.

 

Maybe all of us must regularly read alcohol activists newsletters and public health or criminality and poverty academic papers to realise the full extent of the ravages created by "small things" such as drinks, qat, smoking or sexual indulgence (more children born out of wedlock than in marriages among many communities such as Black Americans).

 

I didnt consider sexual indulgence to be a small thing, dont get y u added that. lol.

 

From the absent or abusive father to the mother focused on social events, saving money for villas and other relatives marrying again while not providing adequately for their existent children and then harassing for more money to waste youngsters already struggling abroad, it's very clear that much of our suffering is self-inflicted (economic and other forms of oppression aside).

 

This is true.

 

Thus, not everyone will agree that "neglect of the prophet's sunnah is the source of all problems" as summarized by a scholar but we can readily observe in our communities or extended families that most if not all avoidable suffering comes from substances including Qat concomitantly with consumerism as well as lack of patience and self-restraint...

 

True to an extent.

 

 

 

PS: groups or parts of a group with unwise methods

is not enough

to blind someone from the truth (eg, some here were misinformed about Islam long before Al Shabab);

does the atrocities of Maoists or Stalinists signify that economic redistribution is evil and not actually one of the very most civilised human endeavor?

For many it has become enough, and thats the sad reality bro. The merits of socialism vs capitalism, and which would fit better within an Islamic paradigm requires an entirely different debate.

[Abu-Salman]

Yet, one precisely need to regularly read or connect with the Quran more often than ever in this age of endless distractions and distorted thinking; is that even possible when constantly getting enticed by music, something that has strong influence on human minds and promote very different messages?

 

This also isnt true. This whole notion that the Quran and all types of music are psychologically and spiritually mutually exclusive, where only one can take a place within the persons psyche, is a false dichotomy. I agree with you that the vast majority of music, especially western music, is filthy and haraam. But we shouldnt throw out the baby with the bath water. I find many Somali songs to be full of wisdom and life lessons, and i dont feel any further from the deen or the Quran after listening to them

.

.

 

Well, there is no debate regarding the explicit impermissibility of musical instruments in the Sunnah (outside drums during marriage ceremonies), likewise for women singing to men.

However, decent and motivational rythms or poetry are altogether a different issue (within reasonable limits).

Nevertheless, we fully agree on routine music and pure filth masquerading as art, especially the Western or Western modelled forms to which many traditional minded Somalis are allergic too but many others are now increasingly addicted to (alongside their lewd video clips).

 

Y do wadaads treat tobacco and khat as imorral, akin to drinking and gambling. The appraoch to qat and smkoing should be similar to our appraoch to fast food, which has just as much adverse health affects if not more. Lets take out the issue of morality when it comes to this and ill be the first one to condemn it. Or else we're being unjust to many upright men, who just happen to smoke or chew

.

 

Actually, countless countries are now facing public health disasters caused by chronic disorders (diabete, heart disease or cancer) even before their "easier" infectious diseases burden have not been eliminated.

 

This is true, but lack of exercise and poor eating habits contributes to this equally or more than qat or smoking. Yet i dont see wadaads making fatwas that fast food is haraam. Y the inconsistency

.

Well, prohibited "Khamr" explicitely mean any intoxicant or mind altering substance, whether it be from grapes, grains, or other sources ranging from particular mushrooms to chemical reactions and not only wines or spirits as the common misconception goes (alcohol is even rejected by some Christian denominations while all sanction moderation).

 

The Usool-Al-Fiqh or jurisprudence take into account the specific reason for which something is restricted and alcohol was observed as interfering with the clear mindedness central to duties such as the Salat.

 

Qat is, besides, in some ways much worse than alcohol and maybe even more of a powerful catalyst of mental illness as experienced by countless Somalis (not to mention its role in promoting alcohol use and other issues).

 

I fully rejoin you on that fast food should be regulated however (and the Quran or Sunnah insist on proper diet, food and food etiquette);

actually, manufactured food, besides its better known toxicity, is a powerful catalyst of mental problems and improper diet directly influence one behavior too as experts are now increasingly noting (direct role in increases in aggressivity and criminality but also stress, depression, poor attention etc).

We are indeed what we eat as the message goes; the brain is the heaviest energy user organ (eg, diabetics mood swings) or constitued of the omega 3 fats almost absent in Western diets and industrial food.

 

We can not now reject or regulate all the fruits of consumerism and artificial needs creation but can wonder whether some unnecessary substance such as coffee are not, after all, mind altering to some extent (already banned by the influent Mormon Christians).

 

Crucially, it is also true that most Muslims do not realise that alcoholism is a medical condition (at the addiction stage) or stigmatise and deal improperly with vulnerable groups while not fully realising that social factor precipitate such conditions (eg, stress, poverty or marginalisation based on clan factors).

 

Some Al Shabaab methods, made worse by interferences, should not be used to discredit Islam: what about all the infinitely worse abuses condoned by, say for instance, Christianity throughout centuries (serfdom, institutional racism, women as having no soul etc)?

 

There is little doubt that we need proper manners and ethics most urgently, concomitantly with some level of general knowledge or scientific and historical litteracy, ie learning properly the Deen and then some worldly knowledge and that is precisely why we can not afford to compete with Western-style music clips, indulge in endless TV or football commentaries etc...

[ElPunto]

I'm not sure the word 'small' things should be used. The point should be that one needs to keep in mind the comprehensive basis of the religion instead of reducing it to specific prohibited things.

[Wadani]

^ Thank you. Uve encapsulated my point in succinctly.