The Somalia-Somaliland talks Thread

[xiinfaniin]

*Blessed;839961 wrote:

What's the point in talking to Sharifs Admin when they will be out in two months? Somalia should address the union with SL, once it has a fully functioning government that doesn't depend on constitutions drawn in foreign cities, a road map lead by foreign governments and peace protected by foreign armies.

That is rather simplistic way of putting it, Blessed. Perhaps it alludes you that it is the political leaders in Hargeysa that realize time may not be favorable to them in the post August government as it was implicit in the London directive that 'ordered' the parties to engage.

[xiinfaniin]

Che,

Take away the formality and technicality, and it becomes quite apparent TFG wil be talking to a specific constituency in the north who are heavily invested in the separatist political proposition. The massages and political yoga exercise will give away to the hard reality that exists on the ground. Khatumo grows prominent by the day, not in the form governance and development but in the form of polarized political movement that draws clear contrast with secessionism in Hargeysa .

 

Dont get me wrong, I am for appeasing the north to preserve the union, but only a just resolution will form the basis of instability and security.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Blessed who cares if they are out or not Somaliland is willing to talk to the TFG whether 12.000 Amisom troops are protecting the TFG Government or not. The Govt of Somaliland and the the TFG Somalia Government have the green light to talk and the international community will mediate between the two entities, it can't get any better blessed.Do you think things will miraculously change in Somalia after august i don't think so General Bahuku will still be there Mahiga will still be there after august. The political fights between a decentralized state or clan federalism will continue. Azania vs jubaland and setting up clan fiefdoms in jubaland will continue. And the fight against the islamists will also continue with the help of the international community. So it doesn't really matter if Somaliland talks to sharif or after august with sharif or another President. its the same sharaab only a different bekeri.

[Che -Guevara]

Xiin....I think it depends how you look at the situation in all of Somalia including Waqooyi. I see Somalia as country that broke down to the very basic components namely clans and sub-clans despite the semblance of some governance in the north and northeast. The question for all Somalis is does each clan speak for itself and commit themselves to the union or do we allow pseudo-administrations speak for all tribes that they believe is under domain?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

xiinfaniin;839962 wrote:

xaaji xunjuf, time has proven you and your ilk wrong, your waterloo was in 1992 , and not in the wars of ssc and khaatumo. you miscalculated the resolve of certain clans residing in colonial Somaliland and their determination against separation from the mother land. after twenty years of hype and propaganda, you are at the mouth of political implosion. Alas it is evident that you hope Sheekh Sharif to turn out sympathetic to accepting face saving political agreement while you are afraid of the inevitable and final political contours that are about to shape the emerging state...

Xiinfaniin Somaliland doesn't worry about khaatuumo or others they are busy fighting over checkpoints with the garowe clan enclave between tukaraq and Garowe, let them do their thing. Sh sharif wants to come back as the president he doesn't want to many problems since he is facing to many problems and obstacles in Somalia insecurity, islamists poverty corruption with in the TFG, foreign troops in the country. A charter that is about to be transformed into a constitution. Somaliland govt will talk to sh sharifs govt and u just watch and wait for the outcome ama waynu heshiin ama heshiin mayno Ileen wa lilaahidi eh:D

[Blessed]

Indeed Xiin, simplicity does not elude me.

 

Point taken, XX.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

I also think to avoid technical problems and confusion the two Presidents should lead the talks President Siilaanyo of Somaliland and President sharif of Somalia should directly meet in the country they are supposed to hold the talks. I think Sh Sharif suggested something like that before.

[Carafaat]

Che -Guevara;839972 wrote:

Xiin....I think it depends how you look at the situation in all of Somalia including Waqooyi. I see Somalia as country that broke down to the very basic components namely clans and sub-clans despite the semblance of some governance in the north and northeast.

The question for all Somalis is does each clan speak for itself and commit themselves to the union or do we allow pseudo-administrations speak for all tribes that they believe is under domain?

Che, interesting and very relevent question that has confused the Somali political consolidation process over a 15 years. My take os this is that during the civil wars between the rebel groups begin of '90's 'Somalis' ( or rather rebels using entire clan names were fighting along clan lines) and we know that(traditionally) in times of crisis or fighting few go against the clan line or side of the conflict. And when clans fight along clan lines they also reconciale and make peace along clan lines. the clan system proving the very purpose it is intended for like it has been the case for centuries.

 

This led to the false belief that Somalia can be only governed along clan lines. All the clans in Somalia reconcialed, but still most Conferences and initiatives to reconstruct a Somali state along clan lines failed. Now this surely should raise the question if Somalia can be governed based on clan lines? If it could, then Somalia would have a full functioning goverment(TNG) in 2000 or in 2004(TFG). But it didnt. How about Puntland and Somaliland?

 

Some state that these States equal to clans? But I disagree with that notion and think we should diffrentiate goverment administration and clans. Lets take Somaliland, The 'Sultan' of the Duriyad in Somaliland, Suldaan Mahamed Suldaan Abdiqadir fully participated in the Arta Conference and was even arrested by the authorities went he tried to return. My own Sultan was even arrested by Dahir Riyaale! Ugaas of Borama recently visited Borama for the first time ever from his base in Jigjiga, till the last moment it was not even sure if the local authorities would led him in, Sultan of Makhir regurly visit in Hargeysa and has even went to Garowe. While Erigavo falls under Somaliland authority, LasQoray by Puntland and Badhan/Dhahar authorities both cooperate with Somaliland and Puntland. Faroole is the President of Puntland and his goverment controls Garowe, Qardho, Bosasso, etc. But didnt even control Lascanood while he had support of all the Garaads? Can one say Siilanyo speaks on behalf of his clan? No he doesnt and he even arrested a clan elder(Buurmadoow) while another is in Muqdisho? Can one really state that Faroole represents and speaks on behalf of Beesha? no, he doesnt. The recent examplle of Islaan Bashir defying Faroole and going to Muqdisho while Faroole ordered all the elders to return proves this.

 

Conclusion: Clans are based on the undeniable bond of blood, have their systems and structures. And this absolute not comparable nor related to governance that is based on power, control and enforcement of laws. And to answer your question. Politicly Somaliland and Puntland Authorities represent all those living in the regions they control, irrelevent of ones clan. And if you ever might want to marry a girl from Hargeysa dont bother inviting Siilanyo, invtite the girls traditional clan elders, that is their role .

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Somaliland iyo TFG du Goormay Soomaali U Sharxayaan Waxa Wada Hadalku Yahay?

 

Wadahadalka lagaga baaqay shirkii London inay yeeshaan xukuumadda KMG Soomaaliya iyo Somaliland waa arrin aysan umadda Soomaaliyeed meel ay joogaanba aysan garan walina aysan helin cid si rasmi ah uga bixisa sharaxaad ay dadku ku qancaan,waxaase isweydiin leh labada war ee lakala haysto ee Hargeysa iyo Xamar kala yaal kee run ah?

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Maxayse tahay Ujeedada qarsoon ee laqarinayo ee ka dambeysa wadahadalada?

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Yaase Keeni kara Israac ama Kala go’?

Waxaa warbaahinta laga maqlay in Somaliland ay sheegtay inaysan wadahadalka ka qayb qaadanayn haddii aan laga joojin waxyaalaha carqaladda ku ah oo ay masuuliyadeeda ay saareen madaxweyne Shiikh Shariif,waxayna carabka ku dhufteen inay ka boodsan yihiin laba xubnood oo TFG du ku soo dartay oo ka tirsan maamulka Puntland oo ay sheegeen inay kasoo jeedaan Waqooyi.

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Waxay xuseen in loo wadahadlayo Waqooyi iyo Koonfur oo lakala yahay sidii wixii ka horreeeyay 1dii July 1960 kii.

 

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Waxaad ogaataan haddii aydin runta ka sheegin wadahadalada inaydin wax dan ah u ahayn shacabkiina ee aad waddaan dan kale oo ayna ku dhammaan doonto fashilaad.

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Warkana la heli doono maalintaad isqabataan.

 

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Haddana waxaa durba soo baxaya iftiin ka qarsoonaa shacabka soomaaliyeed marka loo eego wareysigan uu bixiyay Wasiirka Arrimaha dibadda ee Somaliland Dr. Mxamed Cabdullaahi Cumar oo wareysi siiyay laanta af soomaaliga ee BBC da ayaa waxaa hadaladiisa ka mid ahaa:

 

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Labada geesood ee wada halayaa waxaa weeye Somaliland iyo Soomaaliya,sidii dalkani ahaa intaan laysku biirin 1dii bishii Juuly 1960 kii.

 

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Somaliland waxay danaynaysaa oo ay jeceshahay sidii beesha caalamku ay ku baaqday inay wadahadlaan somaliland iyo somalia oo ay ka hdlaan arrimo farabadan oo ka dhaxeeya,ka hadlaan sidii mustaqbalkooda siyaasadeed noqon lahaa.

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Hase yeeshee maaha dad dhulkayaga kamid ah inay umagacawdo inay kasoo qayb galaan oo ay wada hadlaan oo ay darafka kale ay soo fariistaan.

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Arrimahaasi waxay u muuqdaan arrimo aan laga wada hadlayn.

 

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Qaddiyadii siyaasiga ahayd iyo madaxbanaanidii iyo wixii ay somaliland ay ka doonaysay wadahadaladaasi inay kusoo qaado, oo aad mooddo inay ugu talagaleen inay hadheeyeen arrimo kale oo noo gaar ah,oo Soomaaliland ugaar ah.

 

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Somaliland Kama Qayb Galayso Wadahadalka TFG da Haddii Aan Wax Laga Badalin——- FM

 

Siilaanyo Oo Sheegay Kalsooni “Danta Iyo Madax Banaanidu Ay Ku Jirto” Wadahadalka TFG v Somaliland

 

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Dawladda Soomaaliya Tafsiir Haka Bixiso Qodobada Shirka London

 

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[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Gaas: Somaliland dhowaan ayaan wadahadal la fureynaa

 

Xukuumadda KMG ah ee Soomaaliya ayaa sheegtay in ay dhowaan wada hadal la furi doonto maamulka Hargeysa ee Somaliland.

 

Ra’iisul wasaaraha Soomaaliya Cabdiweli Maxamed Cali Gaas ayaa sheegay inay qorsheynayaan sidii ay dhowaan Somaliland wada hadal ula furi lahaayeen.

 

Wuxuuna intaas ku daray in uu rajo weyn ka qabo in wadahadaladaasi ay sida uga dhaqsaha badan ku bilaabmaan islamarkaana uu filayo in qodobo wax ku ool ahi ay kasoo baxaan.

 

Somaliland ayaa horay u qaadacday inay wada hadal la gasho dowladda dhexe iyadoo cabasho ka muujisay xubno kasoo jeeda Puntland oo qayb ka ahaa guddiga ay DKG ahi u saartay wadahalada Somaliland.

 

Arintaas ayaa dhinaca kale dhalisay khilaaf soo kala dhex galay Puntland iyo dowladda Federaalka ah inkasta oo markii danbe shir dhowaan Addis-ababa ka dahcay xal looga gaarey.

 

Wadahadalkan ayaa hadii uu qabsoomo noqonaya kii ugu horeeyey ee ay isku soo hor fariistan maamulka Somaliland iyo dowladda dhexe ee Soomaaliya.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Somaliland oo Diidday ka Hadalka Midnimada

 

Ismaaciil Xuseen Farjar | Hargeysa

 

Somaliland ayaa gaashaanka ku dhufatay hadalo ka soo yeeray mas’uuliyiinta DKMG ah oo sheegaya in wadahadalada dhawaan dhex mari doona Somaliland iyo DKMG ah lagaga hadli doono midnimada labada dhinac, Somaliland ayaa DKMG ah uga digtay in hadalada noocaas ah ee la isu marinayo warbaahintu ay sii fogaynayaan wadahadalo dhex mari kara Somaliland iyo DKMG ah.

Guddoomiye Ku-xigeenka Baarlamaanka Somaliland Cali Yuusuf Axmed ayaa shir jaraa’id oo uu qabtay arrintaas kaga hadlay.

Shirka jaraa’id ka dib ayaa Idaacadda VOA ay wareysi la yeelatay Guddoomiye Ku-xigeenka.

Wareysiga kala oo maqal ah, kala soco Idaacadda VOA.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Somaliland: Gooni ayaan ahaaneynaa

 

13 June, 2012, 07:06 GMT 10:06 SGA

 

Dadka reer Somaliland oo dabbaal degaaya sand guradii 21-aad ee gooni isutaaga

Gudoomiye ku xigeenka Baarlamaanka somaliland ayaa ku dhawaaqay in wada hadallada Somaliland

iyo dawladda KMG ee Somaliya aanay ahayn kuwo lagaga noqonaayo gooni isutaaga somaliland .

Cali Yuusuf Axmed wuxuu sheegay in xukuumada Somaliland loo igmaday oo keli ah sidii ay u kala guran lahaayeen Somalia iyo Somaliland , oo ay u noqon lahaayeen laba dal oo jaar ah oo walaalo ah.

Gudoomiye ku xigeenka baarllamaanka Somaliland Cali Yuusuf Axmed wuxuu hadalladaasi kaga dhawaaqay shir jaraa'id

oo maanta uu ku qabtay xarunta baarllamaanka ee Hargeysa .

Go'anadii ka so baxey shirkii London ayaa ugu baaqey Somaliland iyo Somalia inay wada hadlaan. Madaxweynaha Somalia Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Axmed ayaa horey u sheegey in wadahadalka ay laxiriiraan sugitaanka midnimada Somalia.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Wada-hadaladii Somaliland iyo Somaliya oo U Dhow Inay furmaan, TFG-da oo Wali Midnimo Ku Carqaladeynaysa iyo Aragtiyaha laga bixinayay

“Somaliland annagu maanu aqoonsan aduunkuna muu aqoonsan markaa sideebanu laba dawladood ugu wada hadli karnaa”R/wasaare Gaas

“Wixii la odhan jirey Soomaaliya beri horre ayey ka tashadeen Shacabka Somaliland hadalka Raysal-wasaaraha ka soo yeedhayna waa mid Khayaali ah” Wasir Arrimaha Dibada

“Wada-hadalada waxa ka soo bixi kara in Beesha Caalamku xaqiiqsato rabitaanka Somaliland”Ambasador Cigaal

Hargeysa(Waaheen)-Warar soo baxaya ayaa sheegaya inay bishan June gudaheeda Somaliland iyo Somaliya wada hadalo foolka-fool ah ku yeelan doonaan Magaalada London ee Cariga Ingiriiska.

Wada hadaladan oo daba socda shirkii Bishii Feberaury ka dhacay isla magaaladaasi ayaa la sheegay inay labada dhinac uga qayb gelayaan xubno Wasiiro ah oo labada dawladdood kala metelaya, hase yeeshee aanay labada madaxweyne ee Somaliland iyo Somaliya ka qayb geli doonin.

Ma cadda ilaa hada ajandaha Rasmiga ah ee shirkaasi iyo waxyaabaha lagaga wada hadlayaa , waxaase jira warar isa soo taraya oo sheegaya inay labada dhinac ka wada hadlayaan xidhiidhka ka dhexeyn doona mustaqbalka sidii lagu go’aamiyay shirkii ka dhacay London bilowgii sanadkan.

Somaliland ayaa la sheegay inay wadato qorshe ay ku doonayso madaxbanaani inay ka hesho beesha Caalamka oo ay Somaliya ugu horayso,taasoo bedelkeeda dawlada ku meel-gaadhka ah Somalidu ku gacan saydhay, sida uu laanta afka Somaliga ee Ideecada voa-da xalay ka sheegay raysal-wasaaraha Somaliya Dr. Cadiwali Gaas “Cid kasta oo Masiirka soomaliyeed talo ku leh waa lala arinsanayaa waxna waa laysla meel dhigayaa, taasi ayaana ka mid ah waxyaabaha aanu ka wada hadlayno Somaliland, waxaanan rajeynayaa inaanu meel fiican isla dhigno”

Mar la waydiiyay inay u wada hadlayaan sidii laba dawladdood iyo in kale waxa uu ku jawaabay “dee Somaliland annagu maanu aqoonsan aduunkuna muu aqoonsan, markaa ma garanayo qabka aad I leedahay laba dawladood ayaa loo wada hadalyo, laakiin walaalahayagaa waanu la hadlaynaa waxaanan kala hadlaynaa sidii Somaliya horumar loo gaadhsiin lahaa, taas ayaanay qayb weyn oo muhiima ka yihiin oo lagala tashanayaa”.

Hadalka ka soo yeedhay Raysal-wasaare Gaas, waxa si adag uga jawaabay Wasiirka arrimaha dibada Somaliland Dr. Maxamed Cabdilaahi Cumar, kaasoo sheegay inay dhamaatay midnimadii Somaliya, waxaanu yidhi “Wixii la odhan jirey Soomaaliya beri horre ayey ka tashadeen Shacabka Somaliland. Hadalka ka soo yeedhay Ra’iisal wasaaraha Somalia waxaan u arkaa inaanu ahayn mid Xaqiiqada jirta ku salaysan waanna iska khiyaali, hase yeeshee dawladda Somaliland iyo shacabkeedu waa hore ayey arrimahaas ka gudbeen”ayay ka gudbeen.

Marka laga yimaado yooyootanka labada dhinac u dhexeeya eek u saabsan waxyaabaha shirka lagaga wada xaajoonayo, Somaliland dhankeeda rajo fiican ayay ka qabtaa inay wada hadalada uga soo baxaan waxyaabo muhiim ah “Wada-hadalladan waxaanu rajaynaynaa inay ka soo baxaan Madax-banaani caalamiya oo ay Somaliland ka hesho beesha caalamka, iyo sidii ay dawladda Somaliland taageero buuxda uga heli lahayd beesha Caalamka”Ayuu yidhi Wasiirka arrimaha dibada Somaliland.

Hadalka Wasiirka arrimaha dibada Somaliland ee la xidhiidha rajada Somaliland ka qabto maxsuulka shirkaasi waxa sii tahgiidinaya Diblo maasiyiin reer Somaliland ah oo Wargeyska Waaheen wax ka waydiiyay arintaasi, kuwaasoo uu ka mid yahay Safiirkii hore ee Somaliland e fadhiyay wadanka Shiinaha Ambasador Axmed Xasan Cigaal“hadii wada hadaladu dhacaan oo Somaliya diido inay aqoonsato Somaliland taasi waxay keenaysaa in beesha Caalamku tidhaahdo Somaliland miiska way timi laakiin qoladaa kale ayaa diidan wixii lagu wada hadlay, markaa taasi hadii ay timaado waxa faa’ido inoo ah iyadoo beesha Caalamku xaqiiqsato in Somaliland u bisishay rabitaankeeda oo laynagu Ixtiraamo”.

Amasadoor Cigaal wax uu sidoo kale dhaliilay Siyaasada Wasaaradda arimahaDibada Somaliland oo uu sheegay inay aad u jilicsantahay“Madaxweyne Siilaanyo waxa muuqata inuu Madaxbanaanida Somaliland ku dhegsanyahay oo aanay si fudud uga baxsanayn, laakiin Wasaaradda arrimaha dibada ayaad moodaa in awoodeeda siyaasadeed liidato, madaxweynuhuse waakii ku khudbadeeyay boqol sano haday gaadhayso madaxbanaanida Somaliland waa lama taabtaan inay ka dhabtahaybaana muuqata”ayuu yidhi.

Ugu dambeyntiina waxa uu ku taliyay in Asxaabta Mucaaridka iyo Bulshada laga talo geliyo wada-hadalada ay xukuumaddu la yeelanayso Somaliya“Waxa aniga ila haboon in wada hadalada laga talo geliyo Labada xisbi mucaarid, Tijaarta wadanka ee Maal-gashiga Samaysay iyo dadka wax garadka ah ee Bulshada ku jira”.

Geesta kale Diblo maasi magaciisa qariyay oo Waaheen la soo xidhiidhay ayaa sheegay “Somaliland iyo Somaliya waxay mudo laba todobaad gudahooda ah ku kulmi doonaan Magaalada London, sida wararku igu soo gaadhayana waxa la dhameeyey khilaafkii ka taagna ergada u meteli doonta labada dhinac wada-hadaladda, ka dib markii laga saarey kooxdii ka socotey gobolka Puntland ee Somalia, arintani waxa ay fududeyneysa in Somalidu ay hesho laba dowladood oo deris ah oo is kaashadda, somaliland waxa ay dunida ka heli doonta qadarin , waxaana uu wada hadalkani baajin doona isku dhac dagaal oo laga cabdi qabey in uu dhex mari lahaa Somaliland iyo Somalia oo ku saabsan xuduudaha iyo madaxabanaanidda labada gobolka ,,, waxaan rajeynaya inay Somaliya garowsan doonaan in ay Somaliland aqoon sadaan

Dhinaca kale gudoomiye ku xigeenka golaha wakiilada Cali Yuusuf Axmed oo ka hadlaya wada hadalada Somaliland iyo Somaliya waxa uu yidhi “Waxaan umada Somaliland iyo Somaliyaba u sheegayaa inay wada hadaladu ku saabsan yihiin sidii loogu aqoonsan lahaa laba dawladood oo jaar ah,walaalo ah oo wax wada qabsada, laakiin kala madax banaan, waxaanay u dhacayaan iyada oo la kala yahay laba dawladood oo siman”.

Guddoomiye ku-xigeenka Golaha Wakiiladdu waxa uu sidoo kale gaashaanka ku dhuftay Midnimo dambe“waxaan leeyahay madaxweyne shariif iyo raysal wasaarihiisaba taariikhdii is raaca wax badan ayaa idinka maqan, laakiin way dhamaatay wakhtigii midnimadu”.

Si kastaba ha ahaatee wada hadalada Somaliland iyo Somaliya la filayo inay dhex marayaan ayaa dhawr jeer ooh ore Hakad ku yimi ka dib markii laysku maan-dhaafay Ergooyinka labada dhinac uga qayb gelaya Shirka oo dhinaca TGF-du ku soo dareen laba xubnood oo Puntland ka socda, kuwaasoo dhalasho ahaan ka soo jeeda Deegaamada Bariga Somaliland.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Talks will be held soon in London UK this month mediation coming from the EU and Britain.

Talks will be this month June some sources are saying Somaliand will bring 4 persons to the negotiating table former President daahir rayaale Somalilands current foreign minister Dr Mohammad abdilahi cumar and Professor Siciid gees and baashe maxammad cade.Somalia will also select 4 persons and bring them to the negotiating table. Last time Somaliland and Somalia held talks was in 1989 that's 23 year ago.

[Qandalawi]

I think SL is daydreaming and out of touch with reality. Raisal Warahaa is right, Somaliland is asking for what is not legally right.

 

Somaliland has not achieved recognition, not from the International community nor from the Somali government. Therefore, to demand to sit together as two different and equal countries is absurd.

 

Somaliland officials are not realistic and genuine about these talks. Instead of asking the impossible, why don't they just say we are not interested in talks.