Sharia Law, Are we Ready For IT?

[winnie]

i have a question about shariah. i was listening to a lecture once, and i remember a small bit but dont remember the context. the lecturer was saying that shariah (not the whole system, and definitely not the laws governing religion, but a part of it which i forget) is supposed to be revised every 10 years, thats where fatwas come in. so my question is, what part of shariah was he referring to, and is he correct?

[Nur]

T.O.B.C.F.M.F

 

Sharia in Arabic means WAY, Path, etc. in the legal context it means the straight path to reach our destination safely ( Siradul Mustaqeem). Its the road that connects the present life to the permanent life, in that regard, unlike the Christian west, our faith and life are intimately connected.

 

The Sharia Law's origin is called Maqasidul Sharia, or the moral of the law, its meant to protect, The Faith, Lives, Dignity, Property, and Offsping ( Kids). The specific rules it uses to protect the above can change from generation to generation, and that is the part that needs revision from time to to time.

 

Wallahu Aclam

 

 

Nur

[xiinfaniin]

Nur,

I am bordering disappointment in you! To me, you were the sheikh with the profitable sayings and thus far you’ve yielded no gems! You can’t with all seriousness gloss our clausal failure with a theological gloom! Your approach is not that much different than brother Geeljire’s; both of you seem to be suggesting that fighting Ethiopia in southern theatre is the only viable strategy to achieve the restoration of Somalia. You both seem to be dismissing the notion of reconciliation as untimely and downplaying the role of our divisions played and continue to play in our downfall. Why?

 

I have depicted what I consider Somalia’s current depressing reality. Idealism and emotions aside, Somalis are no position to fight, or sustain any meaningful fighting with the level of disunity and lack of military and diplomatic support that exist. When you are weak and feeble like we are there are two great prophetic approaches to adopt and benefit. The first one is the one I mentioned in my earlier piece. The Mecca approach! The strategy of being modest in your approaches and staying under the radar of the enemy, stealthily building both your spiritual and material capacity, and demonstrating the ability to choose your battles and refusing to be drawn in conflicts that you have no capacity to fight! The other is the sum of Muhammad’s (scw)political, military, and spiritual leadership. The Medina approach! It was there where he thought us the power of positive thinking, the diplomatic skills to create and establish alliances, and enter military pacts with pagans and Jews in an effort to safeguard and defend his jurisdiction of yathrib, and above all it was in that period in which the Messenger of Allah demonstrated the ability to make difficulty decisions and signed the Hudaybia agreement with a pagan Quraysh! Which one is the fighting sahwah adopting yaa Nur? And if those fighting in the actual fight couldn’t see the big picture as the surrounding difficult environment might not allow them to see, what is that prevents us who are in their comforts in the west realize what these young shabaabs are facing! What does defeating Ethiopia in Xamar, in the big scheme of things, mean if American aircraft-carrying ships are docked on our beaches?

 

When I ask these questions I am not looking for an easy answers or implying that there are quick solutions to our problems. What I want instead yaa sheikh Nur is to abandon this popular group thinking approach of supporting this fight while in reality few could articulate comprehensive strategy to address our mess and point to a way out of it. We have been there before where shabaaabs fought very hard in narrow theatres of wars and in the end ended up looking very naïve in hindsight. We all hoped and thought this would be different since men with great experience were in the helm of Court’s leadership. Now since a complete picture of the primary drivers of last year’s invasion emerged, and since we perfectly understand the context in which this war was waged and still being waged, must it not be imperative to genuinely explore other ways to save this tired shacab yaa sheikh?

 

Geeljire,

 

I see no promises in alshabaab’s strategy in Xamar. These shabaabs are after shahaadah, they don’t care if they win or lose. To me shahaadah is not a goal unto itself, it’s a means! That‘s what I was taught anyways. I would love to see a united Somalis fighting Ethiopia and destroying it. Unfortunately, at this juncture of our history, I don’t see that happening anytime soon. A good strategy must seek unity both territorial and people, and plan to build capacity to challenge this mad state in our neighborhood! To get there we must first reconcile our differences and compromise to each other. I am a realist saaxiib, and I deeply value the lives lost in Mogadishu. Any time people flee from their homes it pains me. It happened to me; we were forced to flee from Xamar, and we left everything we owned in it behind, and we were forced from Kismayo and we left everything we owned in it behind. I understand what war is---it’s not fun. If you are not well equipped to fight it you better not play with the lives of your own people and you must know when to change strategies. So yes I am for peace and reconciliation. I don’t care under where it happens as long it’s genuine and comprehensive. I see divisions and differences that are being exploited and deepened in Somali people. I can clearly see the political gaps between Hargeysa, Boosaaso, and Xamar! The wadaads are not even in the same page on this; they have been having their debates and airing their different takes on our situation. If you are for war however I can’t reproach you for I too once thought we could pull this one and succeed. Now that I am in doubt you must articulate how a war fought in certain sections of Xamar could succeed even if won to restore the Somali state!

 

ps For those still latching on to the title of this thread and asking questions about shariicah in that spirit, I must inform you that this thread has been officially hijacked!

[Nur]

Xiin walaal

 

I am sorry to let you down, don't drop ball on me so quickly bro. I was not done yet!, I took your question very seriously, and since the day you've posted, it remains to be a mind-power consuming question.

 

Your questions have a long and short format of answers:

 

1. Shortest Solution: Please read " Open Letter to Ehud Olmert" But right after posting that open letter, Americans and Ethiopians were pounding Somalia mercilessly, I guess Mr. Olmert was irritated by my letter.

 

2. Long Term Solution: is the one I am trying to engage you with, some patience please.

 

To address your long set of questions, I have made a prelude, to prepare you for a long journey, at the same time, gave you short answers for your mind teasing questions, the best I can, given available time in my busy schedule.

 

but, as you have known me by now, questions like yours have no ready-made answers on the eNuri Shelves, nor a fast food order from a motorsists window, yours are more like a fancy dinner order in a five star restaurant, you are supposed to wait longer, to get a jucier meal steaming with spices and nutritious menues.

 

To do just that, I have broken the problem in the following way:

 

1. What is the Nature of the Problem at hand?

 

2. What is the ultimate goal to be reached?

 

3. How to get there?

 

4. What is the break down of activities that will lead us to that ultimate goal.

 

 

So far, I am at the first question, trying to agree with you on the nature of the problem, we can not proceed further until we have a unified vison on nature of problem.

 

Later, we need to agree on the final settelement of the problem, because te final settlement is so important, all of your suggestions that you have hastely suggested have to be tested if indeed they can deliver, or lead us to a dead end. Consequently, the otput from this stage will open another discussion on how to get there which is what you have already began hitting me hard with your hoobiye, and finally the structured activities that can help us in this maze.

 

Now, if this approach is fine with you, I can proceed, and it can be a learning journey for all viewers, so let me know, because, I am not ready answering questions that I have not developed their background drivers.

 

 

Nur

[Fabregas]

Xiinow, I'm not downplaying reconciliation. I am only asking those that constantly advocate it to tell us/me how, where, who and when the reconciliation will work? Everyone is for peace adeer, nobody wants war, least of us those who sit confortably in the West. But reality is different from what we desire and dream of. You know the reality in Somalia; you have indentified all the problems';

 

But it again it boils down to the matter: When a Tigray mecenary is raping a Somali women at a checkpoint, what action should those with any dignity living in that area take? Call the U.N., hold conferences, protest, lobby the T.F.G? That is essentially what is at stake in Somalia. Suppose you sit down with the Somali warlords under a Qhudac tree and they still hold that Ethiopia has a 100% right to stay in Somalia, what then?

 

 

Therefore, I am not for war, but self defence as Allah swt ordered when your land, property, women, childen and brothers are all grossly violated. To me this is far more important and urgent than attempting to reconcile and unite Somalis in Bosaso and Hargeysa. For you can unite them, but it wouldn't be of any great use, when you have a country that is part of Greater Ethiopia and massively funded by the West. This(resistance) isn't a means to ressurecting the SOmali state, reconciling all Somalis or making all them love each other, but it is a neccesity and command by Allah swt for those in that region that have any human dignity. Again, I'll leave it to you to articulate how the middle path, ie to reconcile( make peace) will work and how this will effect the people under the onslaught of Ethiopian tanks . I'll touch on Alshabaab and the displacement, suffering and pain at another time.

[Kashafa]

When a Tigray mecenary is raping a Somali women at a checkpoint, what action should those with any dignity living in that area take

Were you to listen to some of our misguided well-meaning, well-intentioned, brothers oo jah-wareer ku dhacay , they would say(with a straight face): "Talk to the Tigray Mercenary, give him a chance to finish the rape, let him cool down a bit before you talk to him. Offer him some water. Remember Hudaybiyah. Be wise ! Don't be emotional. So what, a Muslim woman just got raped in front of your eyes. Don't let the xamaasad provoke you into doing something rash and unwise, say like, trying to prevent the rape of your Muslim Sister. And if the Tigray Mercenary wants to kill her afterwards, run and get the knife for him. Remember Hudaybiyah ! Remember how the Prophet handed over a new Muslim Convert who made Hijrah, handed him over to the Qurayshi Kufaars, in accordance to the Truce of Hudaybi. Unity ! Reconcilliation !. Love ! (insert any other empty sweet-sounding word)

 

Xiin,

 

With all due respect, akh, your views have been devolving over the past few months, to the point where they are almost indistinguisable from that of a TFG cheerleader. In your blind pursuit of 'peace and stability', you have shown to be willing to sacrifice principles superior men have bled for. I understand your good intentions, laakin jah-wareer(confusion) culus aa ku haayo. Especially vis-a-vis your understanding of the Seerah and how it applys to todays world(Fiqh Al-waaqic).

 

No matter. I await your discussion with Nur and Geel-jire and would ask you to respond to, concede, or provide an alternative to the points they raise. Laakin criticism aa maanta dhan lasoo istaagaa with no alternative course of action(not only hadal), kalaam rijaal ma ahan, abti. Geel-Jire made some strong points, basing his argument on both historical precedent and the Qu'raan, which I will repeat below. Kindly respond.

[Kashafa]

Originally posted by ThePoint:

Nope. Somalis need many years of Islamic re-education camps before this is implemented.

And untill such a glorious time arrives, untill all Somalis are magically certified to be 100% 'Islamically re-educated' with a Halaal stampmark on the forehead, let us be ruled under T-72/MiG jet-assisted 'Zenawian democracy', more accurately known as fowr-bointi-fife clan-based rule. After all, genocidal occupation is far more beneficial to the people than hastely introducing Shariah law.

 

^^ Welcome to the wonderful logic-defying world of Is-Qancis.

 

Geel-Jire, Baraakallahu feek, walee waa hadashay, fahal min musmic ? I will recap and reiterate some of the more salient points you have made.

 

Suppose you sit down with the Somali warlords under a Qhudac tree and they still hold that Ethiopia has a 100% right to stay in Somalia, what then?

Then our misguided brothers would tell you:" No problem. The Ethiopian supporters are our brothers and we will work with them regardless. Reconcilliation ! Unity! And if that means that Ethiopia has to occupy us for decades, we will accept that fate if it means no more war"

 

Intee ka martay ayada Quraanka: "Wa'doo low tudhinu fa'yudhinoon"

Unity isn't strenghtened by numbers and weapons. But it is strenghtened by repenting to Allah swt, fearing him and distancing ourselves from any group of people that openly reject the laws of Allah swt. It is the Sunnah of Allah swt that whenever he tested a group of believers, he always sent against them the superpowers and great chieftans of the time. David(Daud) took on Goliath(jalut); Muhamad(saw) took on the Quraish and his followes took on the Persians and Romans; Issa(c.s) took on the Romans and the Zionists; Musa took on the might and power of the Pharoah; and Ibrahim took his nation/family of Idolaters

Therefore, they were outnumbered, ouresourced and almost always their own clans, families and nations mocked them for what they sought to achieve

In my opinion it is better to a have a small family of righteous believers, then a whole family of strong and united people who include those that rejected the law of Allah swt and openly supported/aided those that fought against his law

Has any occupation force ever been removed or severely limited by negotiating with the colloborators who implement the policy of the occupier

Million shilling question. Dare anybody respond ? You see, simple logic is the best antidote to the 'stop the resistance' crowd'.

So it is natural some clan elders, regions and perhaps even entire groups of people would seek to live in friendliness or even under the grip of Ethiopian influence in return for a little bit of peace and for the Ethiopian dictator to point his guns at another region/clan

You're all about realism, right Xiin ? Then accept the reality that there will always be Somalis that will prostitute themselves for Ethiopias sake. And no matter how much you bend ur back for 'reconcillation & unity', they will continue to serve Ethiopia's interests.

We find the in the Quran that only a small band of Bani Israel struggled in the path of Allah swt and the rest didn't even though they oppressed and Allah swt commanded them to do so. So what do you expect of the clan chiefs and leaders of Somali regions that are actually living in peace and under no direct threat? Allah swt said:

 

 

246. Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? they said to a prophet (That was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of Allah." He said: " Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?" They said: " How could we refuse to fight in the cause of Allah, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families ?" but when they were commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them . But Allah Has full knowledge of those who do wrong.

Identifying problems and criticising the approach of the Islamic Courts is an easy thing but it is hard to bring another viable solution that works

Cazallahu Maqaamak. You will find those that criticise the ICU and the Muqaawma to be bankrupt when it comes to alternatives or any other viable path towards saving Somalia. Yaa uu sheego, Surrender and Capitulation is not in the dictionary of Rijaal-al-Islam.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Nur:

1. What is the Nature of the Problem at hand?

 

2. What is the ultimate goal to be reached?

 

3. How to get there?

 

4. What is the break down of activities that will lead us to that ultimate goal.

 

Good order yaa Nur! I am bussy these days but I shall find a time to continue this with you yaa Nur.

 

Originally posted by GJ_Goate:

I'm not downplaying reconciliation. I am only asking those that constantly advocate it to tell us/me how, where, who and when the reconciliation will work?

you are asking how to reconcile somalis, where, with whom, and when!

 

how: through compromise

where: does not matter.

with whom: between all parties, Courts, alshabaab, tfg, SL, between clans!

when: right now!

 

I mean you have to accept in principle that talking to each other and to your enemy is a strategy that some times works. You will have to try it to find out! As for those who are actually in the battle fields of Xamar no one blames them for trying to defend themselves.

 

Adeer you cant put the burden of finding an alternative on me. I am at least conceding that this war is not working and is causing more harm than benefit in my opinion. I try to read between the lines of your piece and all the justifications you managed to muster seem to be hinging on pride and self-defense. This is about Somalia adeer. It’s not about individuals or communities and how they pride themselves. I would not waste my time if I felt otherwise. I am still avoiding your misquotes of the Qur’an and your attempt to apply the narrative of banii Israel that happened in a much different context to the Somali conflict. Adeer Somalis are all Muslims. Their fight and division are political in nature. The clan chiefs you referred to are all Muslims to me! And with all sincerity and truthfulness even those in the tfg are Muslims to me. Granted that there is an Ethiopian component to our conflict but the fight in Xamar is not between Ethiopians and Somalis ONLY. There would not be any argument if that were the case. I wish that was the case brother but it’s not!

 

Akhiiran, Geeljirow, the rape of a Muslimah is a criminal act, and is indeed quite significant in my Islamic consciousness. When an Ethiopian soldier does that act in Xamar it does indeed overflow, as Liqaye would say, our cup of shame! In reality though it does not matter who does the act adeer; there are thousands of good Muslims who still bear the scars of rape by fellow Somalis. Citing this act as a reason to continue this fight is not a credible argument. You are commenting on the edges of this conflict when you cite examples like that yaa camel boy…

 

Kashafa, I appreciate if you participate in this discussion with proper vocabs ; mamnuuc cindii are the words like dabadhilifs this and dabodhilif that…it only shows how angry you are with the painful occupation that has took place in our country. I know you are angry. Wax kale ma haysaa adeer?

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by GJ_Goate:

This(resistance)

isn't

a means to

ressurecting the SOmali state

,

reconciling all Somalis

or

making all them love each other

, but it is a neccesity and command by Allah swt for those in that region that have any human dignity.

Geeljire, I missed this bit! It's clear now that our goals diverge widely! Please disregard any thing i said above and explain to me how you believe that this narrow goal of resisting the enemy in a specific areas while giving away other regions or dont care about them will yield success?

[Fabregas]

Xiinfaanin, it seems we have misunderstood each other and I believe we are on the same page on the majority of things. I don't have much time to answer the rest of your post. Suffice it to say that I didn't misquote the Quran and that wasn't my intention. Somalis are all Muslims, but Somalis must have disobeyed Allah swt in order for him to send enemies against them and humilate them on this earth?

 

 

The Bani Israel mentioned in the surah were believers too, they even boasted to a Prophet, " They said, " Why should we not fight in Allah's way while we have been driven out of our homes and our children ". But Allah swt mentions to us after fighting was ordained for them only a small band of them took it up and the rest of them abandoned it. I am not saying Somalis are Bani Israel, rather I'm simply pointing out to you that joining a struggle for any entity, clan, man, region or whatever is difficult and not something easy. You just have to look at the Muslim world to know that!

[xiinfaniin]

^^I got the misunderstanding part bro! Don’t waste your time rationalizing why alshabaabs or those in Xamar fight against Ethiopia---it does not need one! Instead address my assertion that such a fight can hardly yield any success toward resolving the bigger issues that plague Somalis and Somalia today!

 

Nur, in a bid to answer your first question, I would say our problems emanate from a poor leadership. That in turn leads to unnecessary divisions and deepens our differences. That in turn makes easy for our enemies to exploit us and take advantage of our weakness. And there you can see the waterfall effect of this leadership anomaly Somalis suffer. This crisis of leadership is why promising and seemingly flawless entities like the Islamic Courts fail. It’s why Somalis are able to talk and deal with Ethiopia and with Pentagon but cant deal with each other. It’s why we are where we are today! I believe gradually finding a way to fix what these bad leaders did is the first step of reforming our selves, and subsequently better our situation. We can discuss how that reform can come about but firstly let us agree or disagree for that matter on whether my diagnosis of the Somali problem is the correct one. Notice that I did not attribute our downfall to the obvious external influences coming from far and near.

 

Take it from there and let’s stay with your first point of defining what our problem is!

[ElPunto]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

quote:Originally posted by ThePoint:

Nope. Somalis need many years of Islamic re-education camps before this is implemented.

And untill such a glorious time arrives, untill all Somalis are magically certified to be 100% 'Islamically re-educated' with a Halaal stampmark on the forehead, let us be ruled under T-72/MiG jet-assisted 'Zenawian democracy', more accurately known as fowr-bointi-fife clan-based rule. After all, genocidal occupation is far more beneficial to the people than hastely introducing Shariah law.

 

^^ Welcome to the wonderful logic-defying world of Is-Qancis.

 

It's called baby steps dude. First establish some level of peace then set up admin. Then codify Sharia(I hate to break it to you but there is little agreement on Sharia itself). Then educate people about it etc. There has to be a process. Unless you wanna do the Taliban example.

 

But then jumping to stu*pid conclusions is your hallmark. And you talk about is-qanciis and logic.

[Fabregas]

quote:Khilaafkan ayaa yimid ka dib markii ay koox dhalinyaro ah oo ka tirsan AL Shabaab ay dileen nin ku sugnaa makhaayada lagu caweynayey goor habeen ah ka dib markii uu ka dhaga adeygay in uu damiyo Music u daarnaa.

 

Clearly the young man with the pistol wasn't ready for implementing Shariah law and the man who sadly and tragically lost his live wasn't ready for it either. This is type of behaviour amongst a certain group/organisation isn't the firt time in Somalia. A lot of people including many of the Ulema are keeping silent about these issues. It is understandable they don't want to openly condemn and divide the people. Lakin, if people don't rectify and openly point out the mistakes such as the above and general conudct of the Islamic movements with regards to the SOmali people, then it serves the enemies of the Somali people, and perhaps they will stop supporting them in the long run. It is not acceptable that people who aren't scholars and young men come up with instant fatawas and take the lives of people!