Veteran Bashir Goth - Critiqued

[Wadani]

I know that bro, never disputed that. Once again, i was just letting people know that the SNM clan also lives in areas of sool and sanaag, because many people don't know that.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

No clan claims eastern sool and eastern sanaag its just part of the country but the locals of the region there run their regions..

[burahadeer]

^^^ let khatumites claim every thing as usual.I want my little piece of land & gona claim what's not mine don't go together...delusional as eva! Seriously they became irrelevant with their blundering.

[LANDER]

STOIC;800708 wrote:

Lander,

Let's suppose, if the SL project will not take off twenty years down the road and the south builds a confident government, i think it will be safe to play a genial host to the blue flag one more time.I hope a consensus will be reached by SL leaders to abandon the project or else we will stay in limbo forever...I'm sure this back-to-the-future approach brings little enthusiasm in you and all the die-hard secessionist, but I'll not be surprised if opinions shift.I console myself that the rest of the world will take notice, but sometimes practical problems will call for practical solutions.My goal is not to induce a sense of defeat and i wholeheartedly support the project. This is not a mishmash of appeasement, but just looking ahead....for now all what i'm saying is just pie-in-the-sky....

Well first off Somaliland isn't a 'project' or an experimentation those are words exclusively used by detractors and resoundingly anti-Somaliland crowds, its unfortunate you would refer to it as such. Somaliland is a fact on the ground today and I'm sure you're well aware of its growth in governance and sustainability. Nearly a decade ago, when you and I first started posting in these forums, Somaliland was hardly known even amongst Somalis, its government institutions were quite weak (or non-existent in some cases) and its reach was limited. Nevertheless, in the mind of most Somalilanders their country was to be nurtured and strenghtened, most of them didn't consider and don't consider a Plan B. The country has grown in leaps and bounds since than and its case is fairly well known in the international arena, Though I may be perceived as a "die-hard" Somalilander as your suggesting in these neck of the woods (SOL), my views within the Somaliland political spectrum could hardly be described as such. Ironically, I feel your views are shared by a certain segments of the population in Somaliland and its diaspora but for totally different reasons. Those who feel that Somaliland is under constant existential threat and that the majority of resources should be devoted to defense and and security also talk about these same 'scenarios' of being made to fall under the blue flag. I do not agree with these people and feel a future Somalia that can stand on its two feet can only be a positive for Somaliland in resolving its political status and solving outstanding issues. However, its not to say that these folks are completely wrong I just feel they're overly focused on that front. I don't see political 'limbo' as a doom on Somaliland and I don't see it only having two options being either recognized as a sovereign entity or going back to a union with Somalia as again your suggesting. Lastly, I can't really say what will happen in 20 years or what the political stance of most Somalilanders will be vis-a-vis the affairs of their country. However, what I can tell you based on what I see today, that hoisting a blue flag or unifying with other Somalis in a single country will simply not be an option for Somalilanders. There is an entire generation of younger people born in the 90s that have not witnessed the war and who's view are far more 'hard core' or nationalistic than my own and the generation that came before me. They were born under the green, white and red and have never known Somalia, some of them surprise me in just how politically aware they are, so that is one of the main reasons I also think what your suggesting is simply not plausible.

[NGONGE]

LANDER, my or Stoic's support of SL is never going to be as strong or fanatic as yours, saaixb. Today, I am waving the SL flag and celebrating the achievements of the state. However, tomorrow, should circumstances change and it becomes more pragmatic to support a greater Somalia, I too will dust off that blue flag from under my bed and head that way (of course, I doubt circumstances will change to that extent).

 

It is the eternal Somali problem that you all have (and here I lump you with the other Somalis). Maaddeey alone is not the one that suffers from extra amounts of 'xamaasad', you all do. In fact, this thread is a case in point. Here we have a unionist criticising a Somalilander by suggesting that he's a unionist at heart! Err, if he is, would it not be more prudent to sweat talk such a person and ensure that he's (happily) on your side rather than drive him away? Why go out of your way to antagonise such a proflic and good writer, which can only result in him writing even more articles that belittles your side?

 

Khaatumo really needs someone like Mr Goth in their side. Hell, they could even do with A&T (now that he made Wardheer news his new home) instead of that mad man that is Osman whatever his name.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

There is an entire generation of younger people born in the 90s that have not witnessed the war and who's view are far more 'hard core' or nationalistic than my own and the generation that came before me. They were born under the green, white and red and have never known Somalia, some of them surprise me in just how politically aware they are, so that is one of the main reasons I also think what your suggesting is simply not plausible.

This is true they are the future of Somaliland and they hardly remember or even know a Somaliland Somalia unity give it another 10 years and see what happens.

[STOIC]

Lander,

 

We may have different of opinions on this issue, but we are both supporting SL aspirations (I refrain from using the word Project from now). Somaliland is a fact on the ground.No question about that.For the first time in its exceedingly long history , Somaliland today is recognized as independent region that has traveled the long path from dirt-poor dream of secession to a fully recognized legitimate region..Somaliland has battled to fend off South Somalia hegemony in Somali government.They have marched into the Wilderness of Somalia along with their guns.They have gained the stalwart ally of countries like Britain and the western world because of their pure aspiration to rebuild their homeleland.Somalis of different clans and descriptions have also sought refuge in major Somaliland cities.It is this stunning results that won the hearts of people like me.Now lurking beneath all this accolade is the recognition Somaliland people and government crave for.

 

Whether tomorrow produces a new recognition and commitment from the rest of the world -or a continue reluctance to do so-would in large part determine the future of Somaliland.The new legitimacy conferred on Somaliland by the London conference has kept and reinforced the lid on Somaliland secession.The South Somalia is forced to negotiate with SL.Everything seems to be falling in place for Somaliland.Yet at heart, we all know that it would be foolish for SL to negotiate with any Somalia government until a two legitimate government are elected in South Somalia to test their stability.If you try to confront the issue consciously you will realize that Somaliland will stay this way for a very long time.When the shifts and shakiness of South Somalia rings warning bell to the rest of the world, SL can keep pushing.Before that could happen, of course, you need to entertain what if South Somalia can produce a legitimate government and the lid is blown-off for SL recognition by the rest of the world.I think we would be forced in this spirit to settle for whatever the world hands to Somaliland people.I understand this will NOT seat well with collective conscious of the kids born after 1991, but what Choice do we have then? Somaliland can go one of two ways then, and i doubt this needs any elaboration.For now Sheikh Shareef can hem and haw whether dancehall state (Khatumo) is a legitimate state while the world take notice of SL aspirations...

[Mario B]

STOIC;801267 wrote:

Lander,

 

We may have different of opinions on this issue, but we are both supporting SL aspirations (I refrain from using the word Project from now). Somaliland is a fact on the ground.No question about that.For the first time in its exceedingly long history , Somaliland today is recognized as independent region that has traveled the long path from dirt-poor dream of secession to a fully recognized legitimate region..Somaliland has battled to fend off South Somalia hegemony in Somali government.They have marched into the Wilderness of Somalia along with their guns.They have gained the stalwart ally of countries like Britain and the western world because of their pure aspiration to rebuild their homeleland.Somalis of different clans and descriptions have also sought refuge in major Somaliland cities.It is this stunning results that won the hearts of people like me.Now lurking beneath all this accolade is the recognition Somaliland people and government crave for.

 

Whether tomorrow produces a new recognition and commitment from the rest of the world -or a continue reluctance to do so-would in large part determine the future of Somaliland.The new legitimacy conferred on Somaliland by the London conference has kept and reinforced the lid on Somaliland secession.The South Somalia is forced to negotiate with SL.Everything seems to be falling in place for Somaliland.Yet at heart, we all know that it would be foolish for SL to negotiate with any Somalia government until a two legitimate government are elected in South Somalia to test their stability.If you try to confront the issue consciously you will realize that Somaliland will stay this way for a very long time.When the shifts and shakiness of South Somalia rings warning bell to the rest of the world, SL can keep pushing.Before that could happen, of course, you need to entertain what if South Somalia can produce a legitimate government and the lid is blown-off for SL recognition by the rest of the world.I think we would be forced in this spirit to settle for whatever the world hands to Somaliland people.I understand this will NOT seat well with collective conscious of the kids born after 1991, but what Choice do we have then? Somaliland can go one of two ways then, and i doubt this needs any elaboration.For now Sheikh Shareef can hem and haw whether dancehall state (Khatumo) is a legitimate state while the world take notice of SL aspirations...

The world recognises "Somaliland" as a peacefull region of Somalia... nothing more, nothing less.:cool:

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^Yes and the world recognizes Somalia as a failed state

[Mario B]

Xaaji Xunjuf;801283 wrote:

^Yes and the world recognizes Somalia as a failed state

Yes, in which "Somaliland" is part of the failure, because clan warlords 21 years ago brought down the Central government and set up regional fiefdoms....that's why it's a failed state. You are part of the failure....:cool:

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Mario B;801288 wrote:

Yes, in which "Somaliland" is part of the failure, because clan warlords 21 years ago brought down the Central government and set up regional fiefdoms....that's why it's a failed state. You are part of the failure....:cool:

Not really

 

[Mario B]

Xaaji Xunjuf;801293 wrote:

Not really

 

A map of a "Phantom state" lol ....try harder my friend. :cool:

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Dont need to the map says it all and i am not you're friend

[Mario B]

Xaaji Xunjuf;801303 wrote:

Dont need to the map says it all and i am not you're friend

So your state comes "alives" on some illustration in some economic magazine...what a shameless loser you're!!

[Taleexi]

NGONGE;800895 wrote:

LANDER, my or Stoic's support of SL is never going to be as strong or fanatic as yours, saaixb. Today, I am waving the SL flag and celebrating the achievements of the state. However, tomorrow, should circumstances change and it becomes more pragmatic to support a greater Somalia, I too will dust off that blue flag from under my bed and head that way (of course, I doubt circumstances will change to that extent).

 

It is the eternal Somali problem that you all have (and here I lump you with the other Somalis). Maaddeey alone is not the one that suffers from extra amounts of 'xamaasad', you all do. In fact, this thread is a case in point. Here we have a unionist criticising a Somalilander by suggesting that he's a unionist at heart! Err, if he is, would it not be more prudent to sweat talk such a person and ensure that he's (happily) on your side rather than drive him away? Why go out of your way to antagonise such a proflic and good writer, which can only result in him writing even more articles that belittles your side?

 

Khaatumo really needs someone like Mr Goth in their side. Hell, they could even do with A&T (now that he made Wardheer news his new home) instead of that mad man that is Osman whatever his name.

Unprincipled, prolific writers are not welcome to the Khaatumo lot.