Sharing Scarce Resources ( Somali Husbands)

[Cara.]

That must have been in response to Naden's request.

 

Layzie, if you cannot think of any reason why the woman could do better than him, then I think it's best to let you grow up with that mentality. Should make for some good entertainment.

[Nur]

Naden sis writes ( page 12)

 

" Nur, brother, do you think this discussion on polygamy should at least include some mention, if not an in-depth look, at the issue of orphans and their mothers? The verse on polygamy is inextricably linked to orphans and being fair/just in their care. Is there a hidden assumption that every second (or 3rd or 4th) wife is a widow w/kids that my dense mind is missing in the multiple scenarios brought up by you and the posters? If not, why is the permissability of the practice not linked to the 2 conditions in the verse: 1) fear of not managing orphans' affairs justly, 2) taking a second (or 3rd or 4th) wife - no doubt the mothers of these orphans, or else verse 3 sura 4 would not bring them up at all. "

 

 

Response:

 

I have unintentionally overlooked to answer this question, InshaAllah , I will come back with a full answer, thank you for your composure and patience.

 

 

Nur

[Naden]

Nur,

 

The 60-something businessman needs to grow up. A younger woman will not bring back what the years have taken.

 

Funny how he describes his life as I have served my time , like a prison sentence. If there is wisdom to go with graying hair and clogging arteries, it would mean that he and his life partner have accumulated enough mutual interests to finally pursue them now that the children are grown and finances are not an issue. But to run after flesh when the love, history and companionship are already there? Blah, I say.

 

Tell him to go home, eat his salt-reduced dinner, have a good laugh with the woman who was there through thick and thin, and then thank God for the life he has led and is now leading.

[Nur]

Naden sis

 

You write:

 

"The 60-something businessman needs to grow up. A younger woman will not bring back what the years have taken."

 

Answer: But it might revive old forgotten and pleasant memories!

 

 

You write:

 

"Funny how he describes his life as I have served my time , like a prison sentence.

 

 

Loooooooooooool, wallahi thats how he put it, he truly expressed himself here, many other men feel in prison, lets hear it!

 

 

You write:

 

"If there is wisdom to go with graying hair and clogging arteries, it would mean that he and his life partner have accumulated enough mutual interests to finally pursue them now that the children are grown and finances are not an issue. But to run after flesh when the love, history and companionship are already there? Blah, I say."

 

 

Naden, sis be kind to the guy, you are not in his shoes, if he still kickin and his lady on the rocker chair weaving kofio barawani, and he's got an eye for a younger lady, and he is healthy enough to have a need, why suppress him? specially when there are takers?

 

You write:

 

" Tell him to go home, eat his salt-reduced dinner, have a good laugh with the woman who was there through thick and thin, and then thank God for the life he has led and is now leading. "

 

 

He is more on the road for business trips, five star hotels and all, if he was not observing Allahs ules, he would ave played a great role as an ideal hsuband, while livinga double life.

 

 

Nur

[Nur]

Naden sis

 

 

Allah SWT says in Surah Nisaa:

 

1. O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship) . Surely, Allah is Ever an All­Watcher over you.

 

2 And give unto orphans their property and do not exchange (your) bad things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by adding it) to your substance. Surely, this is a great sin.

 

3 And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan­girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.

 

 

When Islam appeared in Arabia, the main message was for mankind to surrender to their maker llah SWT. If they agreed to surrender to Allah, then regualtions followed.

 

Regulations had a rule:

 

Everything is halaal ( permitted) unless otherwise forbidden by a verse or Hadeeth.

 

But there was an exception to that rule.

 

1. Wealth ( aquiring and spending)

2. Marriage ( who we can marry)

 

For the above two, all of aqusisitions of wealth and sexual relationships is forbidden except for what has been explicitly supported by Quraan and Sunnah.

 

o, regulation in Islam had severl forms:

 

1. re-Confirm a pactice that existed in Jaahliyah (pre-islam)

 

2. Modify a practice

 

3. Forbid a Practice.

 

 

In the case of marriage, polygamy was reconfirmed, but modified, in conjunction with wealth, as it existed in Judaism and Christianity.

 

So, let us look at the background of the verse:

 

1. It addresses a core issue which is not even marriage, its about orphans, and how to be equittable to them regarding their wealth..

 

2. It sets rules for caretakers of orphans who oversee wealth of orphans.

 

3. It gives a safety net to caretakers and guardians of orphans not to mix their wealth with the wealth of the rich orphans that they are waliyy (acretaker).

 

The situation arises when a caretaker:

 

1. Wants to take advantage by marrying an orphan to use her wealth to marry another.

 

2. Wants to pay less dowry, not in line with going rate of dowry (mahr).

 

So to avoid the above injustice to the orphan, Allah offered to marry other women, two, three or four, and in case, again one fears to commit injustice, one should only marry one wife.

 

 

Nur

[Naden]

Nur, there are many consequences of the testosterone drop in men after a certain age. A young woman is seldom a remedy for any of them but the lady in the rocking chair may have a trick or two up her sleeves .

 

So if he thinks of his marriage as a prison, then all that talk about a loving marriage, a life partner, and a devoted wife where guilty mutterings of a foolish old man about to make himself look even more foolish.

 

It does make you wonder if he was lying to you or lying to himself (as gaudy a symptom of being past your prime as a red sports car).

[Nur]

Nadem sis

 

 

You write:

 

"It does make you wonder if he was lying to you or lying to himself (as gaudy a symptom of being past your prime as a red sports car). "

 

Sis

 

A routine lie detector test for men is in order, every three years!

 

 

Could it be that women ( married ones) are also lying to themselves by ignoring an impending (Midlife Crises) for their hubby? I know of a man who is as a happy as if he has a second lease on life, his second wife is younger than his daughter, at 16, this Halimo was presented to him as 19, yet, his Madam, who is oblivious, has no idea this lil lady exists, we have a real problem, how long are Faaraxs and Halimos going to lie to each other? ( He lives in the west, second lady lives with her parents back home in Somalia) By the way he adores his First lady, but he shivers when he thinks about the news hitting home! he needs humanitarian assitance by the Red Crescent, can you help him?

 

 

Nur

[Naden]

Nur, brother, who needs assistance in this case? The man who sees it fit to marry a child younger than his or the wife who is not given the courtesy of a notice. His shivers and fears are nothing more than a desire to keep both lives, in my opinion.

 

And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the

orphan­girls

Where did you get 'orphangirls'? It must be an interpreter's take because the verse refers to orphans without specifically pointing to girls.

 

Wants to take advantage by marrying an orphan to use her wealth to marry another

How did you get this from the verse?

 

While the verse is vague about the nature of women to marry, it could also refer to women with orphaned children.

[Nur]

Naden.

 

Please do not put ideas ahead of facts. The context in which the verse weas revealed referred specifically on Orphan Girls ( That is if you accept Ibn Katheer, and all of the other tafaaseer), and the ahaadeeth, this is not a matter of conjecture, Context is Important here.

 

If you need substantiation , InshAllah I will do

 

 

Nur

[Naden]

Nur, they are all ideas, brother.

 

How does marrying other women solve the problem of a man wishing to exploit the wealth of an orphan girl through marriage to her?

[Nur]

Yaa Ghaaliya, here is how:

 

 

Ibn Katheer said in the explanation of the verse:

"If anyone of you (addressing men)is a guardian/caretaker (of the assets ) of an orphan girl and he is afraid that he may not be fair with her dowry as he would give to other women not under his care, then let him (not marry the orphan girl under his care) instead, he should marry other women of his choice (upto a limit)

 

Imam Bukhari has reported from Urwah, that Urwah (nephew of Aisha, wife of Prophet Muhammad SAWS) Aisha said to him: O my nephew, (the verse means) an Orphan girl under the care of her Waliyy makes him a partner in her Estate, and he becomes attracted to her wealth and beauty, so, her Waliyy desires to marry her without paying due Dowry ( Mahr, so he pays her as much as he pays (less than what she deserves justly). So care takers were prohibited from marrying the orphan girls under their care unless they treat them fairly by paying highest possible dowry due to her peers (in her wealt and beauty class).

 

As a close example from our own culture, in Somalia, its customary to employ a maid who is also a relative, yet, she ends up not being paid equivalent of what other maids are paid, she is neither given the right of a relative and treated as a member of the family, nor is she paid like other girls working as maids to other families.

 

Wallahu Aclam

 

Nur

[Naden]

Nur, thank you for the ghali term.

 

But what about male orphans, walaal? Even more urgent, what about orhpans (both male and female) who are under the legal age of taking care of their affairs or marriage? I would think that this is the case where most orphans' inheritance is stolen.

 

The verse immediately preceding this verse also speaks about orphans yet it is widely understood to mean both male and female. If you pay close attention to the verse, you will see it refers to nisa'a or adult women. You will also find in verse 6 that the orphan or 'yateem' is to have his or her affairs managed till reaching marriage age, his or her wisdom assured and then entrusting them with their affairs.

 

How is a female who has lost her father yet is old enough to marry to be feared for as a 'yateem'? According to the verse, being of marriage suitability (an indicator of maturity), she is to have her money given to her to manage as she pleases. Admonishment not to absorb a wife's wealth into one's own for this woman is no different than a woman who comes to inheritance at 40, for instance.

 

In any case, even if this narrow subset of orphans (a grown, fit to be married, woman) is to be protected by the verse, how does this apply freely to your 60-something year old businessman? Or to the double marriage earlier in the thread whereby a man is marrying two women at the same time with little indication if he was thrown to the multiple marriage out of fear of taking a third woman (an orphan with an inheritance)?

[Nur]

Naden sis

 

You are raising multiple questions.

 

1. The First: The verses in Surah An Nisaa are indeed addressing the plight of Orphans, however, the verse in question is well known to be addressing the orphan girls estate problem, as this was an unjust practice that needed a legislation. That does not mean that the boys wealth can be freely used by a guardian, because, the boys according to the Arab culture, upon reaching responsible age, used to take over their estate, while girls, usually entrusted (equivalent to power of attorney) their husbands to everseaa their estate.

 

Second Question: In The Quraan, Maturity does not conflict with being ana orphan, as girls used to get married as early as they reach puperty.

 

Third Question: Dont worry about the sixty old man, the verse does neither support him nor its against him, polygamy was an existing pre-Islamic custom , the verses simply limited the number to four (4)

 

 

Nur