Sharing Scarce Resources ( Somali Husbands)

[Alle-ubaahne]

lol, Nacam, her cow is not holy. GnP, I would love to debate with you, please come again, I will make sure to cause your little mind a sudden stagnation as a result of my penetrating reasons against the wicked western system.

 

Nur, don't worry she is very unwanted in the eyes of the west. To the west, she is a little negro immigrant lady, who is unbecoming to reserve a decent seat in their sociaty. That is for sure. Anigaa iri!

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Nur:

 

you are Guardian of the Secular System, and Protector of laws that conflict with our beliefs in Islam.

Assumption #1

 

 

The man made system you are so much in love [with]

Assumption #2

 

the only Guardian and Protector of a system in collision with your beliefs in Allah and the day of judgement.

Assumption #3

 

The problem you sister have is double edged, ignorance of your Islamic faith, and ignorance of how to play the system to your faith's advantage without violence.

Assumption #4

 

 

So many assumptions, so little time.

 

I believe GnP made a good point about living within the Laws of our adopted countries (while upholding our Islamic values of course). However, even if she hadn't, I fail to see why you would feel the need to attack her in the way you just did. A simple answer would have sufficed, I dare say.

 

I'm truly surprised at you Nur. Whether you are aware of it or not (and I don't see how you cannot be), you basically branded the sister as a 'kaafir' in your post, which is wholly uncalled for. If this is the way you respond to anyone with the slightest objection to what you write, I think I would do well to steer clear of you in the future.

 

Your cow doesnt seem to be so holy either, my dear.

[NGONGE]

^^^ How dare you walk in here with your boots on?

 

I agree with all that you’ve said though not in the same harshness. Whatever the reason the brother had to write those words, they came across as being very harsh and disproportionate to the sister’s comments. Still, unlike the charlatans that clumsily pour more gas on an already burning fire, let us come between them and make peace. For other than derailing the topic, this is also not the usual Nur style. Maybe it was a words thing, or he was in a bad mood or he was making a general point in a very convoluted way?

 

Got to give credit to GnP for her dignified silence (yeah, yeah, I know she probably has not read this yet but I’m trying to cushion the blow).

[-Serenity-]

Guess everyone is expecting an outburst of anger, but I’ll keep it concise.

 

Nur, granted you’re more knowledgeable in the deen than I am and nowhere on this thread have I contested that nor labelled you and that you don’t fail to be patronizing in your tone whenever confronted with something not to your taste, I at least know that Islam teaches us to respect the laws of the kufaar lands we choose to reside and unless you don’t agree with this, I fail to see where we disagree and where you’re coming from. How you are conveying your point is completely opposite to what you’re conveying . Finding faults, belittling and ridiculing their way of life to make your point is simply frivolous. How flawed or deviant their laws are is not a topic of discussion for us. As Muslims who are residents in a western country and given the choice to practice our religion completely, we can choose to accept and stay or leave. I never understood why some people choose to live in non-muslim lands and then completely claim to detest everyone and everything about the place. In this particular case, it’s a matter of deciding which takes precedence(islamically too), following the rules and regulations of your adopted country or practicing polygamy which is not only optional and infact not ideal (as far as my knowledge goes) and breaking the laws of your adopted country and risking being charged.

 

I don’t know if you’re trying to be witty but that comes across as character assassination to me. I don’t respond well to people questioning my faith and where my loyalties lie. You don’t know me and I suggest you lay off the sweeping assumptions. There is nothing unislamic about what I’ve contributed to this thread. And if you choose to reply, I insist you substantiate your spurious assumptions at the very least before labelling me with below the belt titles and tossing out further insults my way for no apparent reason.

[bilan]

^^^ well said, i hate when people use westernized argument to belittle others' opinion, btw i do not understand why are some people obssesed with polygamy when as matter of fact islam does not encourage it. if someone wants to practice it, then that is their choice but there is no need to force others to accept it.

[Khayr]

Salaamz,

 

Here is an argument for Polygamy from a Christian Minister

POLYGAMY IS ILLEGAL

 

 

 

1Peter 2:13-14 requires us to be submissive to the authority, the government that God has put over us. Should a person practice polygamy when it is illegal to do so under the law? Shouldn't he be punished according to the law? Shouldn't a Christian register his polygamous marriage? In opposing God's commandment in the light of 1Peter 1:13-14, would a polygamous Christian be sent to Hell if he does not repent?

 

Times and again, I have been confronted with such similar questions as above, especially from people who live in countries where the must-be monogamy mentality rules. It's time that I address it more thoroughly.

 

I agree that it is right that one should submit to earthly authorities for they carry the task of keeping orderliness and peace over the people it governs, but they do not decide on what is holy and what is not. As a child of God, one must submit intelligently, knowing that the requirements of the law of man may not be the same as that of God's at a particular place or time. Thus we must differentiate and wisely fulfill man made laws that fluctuate with human votes and changing philosophies while we also do not violate God's divine laws that never change. What would you do if man's law conflicts directly with your understanding of God's law? To which do you submit? If you were living in the time of prophet Daniel, would you fall down and worship the golden Image, a law that King Nebuchadnezzar decreed that all men in his kingdom should live by? If you are now in a land where Christianity is prohibited, would you fulfill 1 Pet 2:13-14 by ceasing to be a Christian? Or perhaps like in Nepal, where the preaching of the gospel is prohibited, would you stop sharing the good news? What if Anti-Christ becomes the law of the day? BTW, do you know that 1 Peter was an epistle written to the Jews who were badly persecuted and dispersed throughout the Roman Empire because they violated the Roman Authority at that time? They were torn apart, thrown into lions' dens and burnt as torches. Do you know that the same Apostle Peter was crucified upside down for defying the authorities because of his beliefs that did not agree with theirs?

 

YET, it is not my purpose for anyone to directly defy the law of the land even on any conflicting issues. I am not called to be a politician and I don't intend to be one. I am a minister of the gospel and I believe that this issue is not to be resolved by human force or might, but by the Spirit of God. Thus, my purpose of writing on Biblical Polygamy is at least 2 fold:

 

First, as a believer and a minister of the Word, I must expose what I see as religiously erroneous and speak what I discovered, which is also being increasingly discovered by many other ministers around the world, that God is actually not against responsible Biblical Polygamy. It is then up to the people and the government concerned to accommodate what they see as good and just or to change what they see fit. Man's laws are not God's divine laws that cannot be changed. Man's laws can be changed according to what the government or the people see as good or beneficial at a particular point in time. And that was how polygamy finally became outlawed. For that was what they thought, that it was bad for the people, rather what they thought God says. But it was not so in the beginning. The Patriarchs and others practiced it and neither God nor Jesus spoke against it. In the modern times, advanced thinkers like the then Prime Minister of Singapore (still renown for his wisdom and foresight in the world today), now Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew even advocated polygamy as beneficial for dynamic nation building. Had he violated the law of Singapore by giving a suggestion such as this? I think not. Had he violated God's law? There are no scriptures against it. 1 Pet 2:13-14? Certainly not. And as a free citizen, I think I have the right to voice an opinion too. More and more such voices are heard, especially across the Internet. So we see a possibility of a reverse trend in nation building now and I do no more than providing sound scriptural backup for the Authority and the people to make the change if they deem fit.

 

Second, as concerning the practice of it, I appeal to those who are already involved with other women to be responsible to look after these women and their children and not to forsake and discard them. The undeniable fact is, out there people are getting themselves involved, everyday. And they figured out that as long as the parties are consenting and that their spouses are not fighting it and as long as they do not register it, the law does not seem to be even against it. So you tell me, is it strictly illegal for a man to be having an affair with another woman in his life? As much as I do understand, the law in itself does not arrest 2 consenting adults sleeping together nor jail a man for looking after another needy woman and providing for her children, as long as he does not register or hold a ceremony for more than 1 marriage at a time. Oops, he may end up in jail for being responsible enough to do just that. Oh the law! Sigh?! But for sure, it is undesirable to multiply bitter women and rebellious children. Again Sigh!

Let me stray off a little, in some countries, same sex marriages are now legalized. Do you subscribe to it in the light of 1Pet 2:13-14? Sigh! Sigh! Have you sinned if you do not agree to it?

 

Back to our issue, so perhaps, we narrow the issue down to the fact that the law is against the registration and ceremony of another marriage at the same time. Well, many people today cohabit together without registration, and the law does not go around chasing them and putting them into jail as it would to drug abusers. Confused?! Man's law is to keep orderliness and implement the wishes of the people, not necessarily the requirements of God's divine law. Like I say, we must intelligently fulfill man's law and wherever it concurs with God's law, we must not violate it. That's how I understand 1 Pet 2:13-14 and the same applies to the entire Bible.

 

Finally, as concerning God sending people to Hell, He will do so by judging people according to His Law and not according to man's law that changes from time to time and are sometimes inconsistent with His and often man's law does not measure up to His standard or understanding of holiness. Polygamy was never outlawed in Biblical times and 1 Pet 2:13-14 is very often quoted out of context.

Oh, you can be sure God does not throw you into Hell just because you violate man's law when you litter or jay walk.

 

Having given my answers, I have a question for Christian who adamantly use 1Peter 2:13-14 as the objection to the practice of some biblical truths that others are convicted of:

 

Tell me, what would you do if your Christian faith conflicts with the law of the land? Would you compromise and give up Christ or would you stand firm? If you give Him up, you are a man pleaser and God will not know you any more. If you stand firm, you defy the law of the land. You don't have to answer me this question. Because it is not my intention to set Caesar against you or you against Caesar. You just need to answer God yourself. However, many times, I wonder why brethren bring in Caesar's name and pitch it against one another when they are supposed to dwell in the Word and to love and uphold another. I can understand a little how Jesus felt when He was tempted with such questions. Nevertheless, I have always assumed that all such inquirers are sincere, thus to the best I answer them. As for those who are truthful, take heed that it is not by human power nor by human might but by the Spirit and the Word that the work of God is to be done.

 

[CHE]

Nur,

 

Few Questions,

Are the members of this organization past the usual marriage age(as per norm ,between 21 and 29)?

 

 

If so, was it because of school committment?

 

 

If the answer is YES,proceed to read,otherwise disregard.

 

 

It would seem to me that these women had priorities,getting their masters and graduate work done first.But then,its no-brainer that comes with consequence,sometimes at the expense of "getting wived up" and hence lose valuable time towards settling down.

I also dispute that, there are no enough Somali males that are worthy of their partnership.

Polygamy advocacy overlooks the negative aspects that we live in.It also diminishes the role of mothers towards constructive society.

[CHE]

correction

................................the negative aspects of the enviroment we live in .........

[shyhem]

Very Interesting topic i must say.

[Alle-ubaahne]

The integrationist boothlicker is yet suffering from the lack of conscience and a normal ethics. In this regard, he is only here to defend what we had already defeated intellectually. Too bad, indeed.

 

The little girl's opinion of is no weight whatsoever, because she spoke of out knowledge and can't articulate on the basis of a sound Elmi. Many of today's young people who are taught in these western schools are not even capable to distinguish right from wrong. They are totaly misled. I am not blaming GnP, but I've seen many of her likes who took the western dogmas so seriously.

 

they are more loyal to the western cultures than their Diin and social values. I think we are experiencing some of the minor signs prior to the Last Day. We ask Allah not to make us the defenders of the Kufar doctrines, when Islam needs to make our sacrifices for its upholding.

[Bess.]

why does it have to be one way or the other...? :confused: ....be a wife and a mother or be educated and have a career?.....is there no middle ground....

[Gabbal]

be a wife and a mother or be educated and have a career?.....is there no middle ground.... [Frown]

LOL Dr....A wife can be educated, have a career, and still be a wife.

 

Unfortunately some of our people are a bit close-minded shall we say...Khadija, the first wife of the prophet was a wife and mother yet she was one of the wealthiest Quraish businesswoman of her time :eek:

 

Nothing wrong really, its just that sometimes we have to do what we think is right despite the fact that our Somali people don't accept it just cuz it isn't of their norm :rolleyes:

[Bess.]

hey...i knew i liked u for a reason.... besides being cute and all

[Paragon]

.....you basically branded the sister as a 'kaafir' in your post, which is wholly uncalled for.

Really? Did he call her a "Kaafir"? Wow!

[Valenteenah.]

^^ Are we having problems with our reading? :rolleyes: