Congratulations, You Won

[Chimera]

ElPunto;783542 wrote:

Is the deal an utter cloak of darkness?

I haven't seen a single piece of writing regarding this deal. Yeah pretty dark to me.

 

What specifically would you like to see that you haven't seen? What is missing from this agreement that is standard practice in well run developed countries? Fill in the blanks.

- The duration of their leases.

- The percentages.

- The role of the federal government.

- The role of the governments the oil-companies are registered in.

- The conduct of exploration and contingency plans.

 

I want to see this in writing, not Al-Jazeera videos or BBC articles.

 

Let's assume for your sake that this deal is an utter cloak of darkness.

Assume? Where is the deal in writing? Everything now is just through hearsay from those involved, no disclosure of the agreement has been made, hence its an utter cloak of darkness.

 

Is it important at this juncture - when we have no idea whether there is oil there if RR gets 95% and PL gets 5% or vice versa? No - any deal terms are purely hypothetical at this point since we don't know what we're dealing with.

Somalia has oil, and it has alot of it, geologically and geographically speaking its tantamount to wondering whether there is ice in Antartica. Its therefore absolutely important that whatever deal is signed, benefits the Somali people, otherwise we will be duped like the Chadians, I'm pretty sure they had the same mentality as you when they entered into those agreements.

 

 

This is more than a little ridiculous. How can you suffer environmental destruction when you are not even producing oil and when you've no idea if you even

have

oil. How can the government make an environmental protection agency or contigency plan if they don't know what they're even dealing with? How can you be bringing this up when we haven't even reached the starting line?

You're illogical, how can Puntland set up a "Petroleum and Minerals Agency" if they have no idea of there being oil in those basins? Why invest in green-energy today when there is plenty of oil around? Why go to a damn college if your not sure you're going to graduate or be alive in four years time? What's the point of the bloody future if your illogical argument wants to force us to look only at the present?

 

Before raising this point - which is so premature - did you find out whether Range Resources has a good environmental record in other places it operates? Or what sort plans and procedures it generally has with regard to environmental protection? If you haven't examined those aspects - to raise this point at this stage is completely without merit.

What about this: http://www.lhup.edu/rmyers3/MyRange.htm

 

On its website Range affirms its commitment to safe water: "Because Pennsylvania has one of the largest water resources in the nation, we recognize that being good stewards of these resources is extremely important." But apparently the folks at Range define good stewardship in a slightly different manner than is customary. On May 27, 2009 a leaking waste-water pipe from a Range gas well polluted a tributary of Cross Creek Lake in Washington County. The spill killed fish, salamanders, crayfish, and aquatic insects.[1] On May 14, 2010, the DEP fined Range $141,175 for spilling 250 barrels of fracking fluid into a high-quality waterway in Washington County in October 2009. [2]

 

Range claims on its website that their "commitment to protecting the environment" can be seen in their erosion control efforts. According to the DEP, Range was cited at least six times between 2009 and 2010 for "failure to minimize accelerated erosion" at sites in Clinton, Lycoming and Green counties.[3] The citation of September 28, 2009 noted that their failure to implement and maintain an erosion plan resulted in sediment discharge into Hoagland Run.

 

Range also insists that they "work every day to train our employees and contractors and see that they follow and understand regulations and company standards related to safety." If that's true, it's difficult to understand why Range was cited twice in 2009 for "Failure to notify DEP of pollution incident." In the Cross Creek incident, Range employees waited nearly four hours before contacting DEP.[4]

 

Range's website notes that "After drilling is complete, our aim is to be a good guest and leave things the way we found them - or even better." However, according to the DEP, one of Range's Greene County operations was cited on March 22, 2010 for "Failure to restore site w/in 9 months of completion of drilling or plugging."

 

This is in America, which has an established system to deal with shady companies, and hence RR was forced to rectify its mistakes, what exactly does Puntland have in place to force them to do this? How do you know Faroole will give the slighest damn about an oil spill in Bosaso, as long as the money keeps rolling in? I do, he won't give a damn, and there will be no one in the future to hold him accountable, because some genius in the past told us "how do you know there is oil in the first place" lol.

 

One more point - you and her keep bringing up the BP disaster. This is has nothing to do with how the oil, if we have any, would be extracted. In PL - it is on land - and with BP in the Gulf of Mexico - it was from the bottom of the seabed. These 2 different locales have entirely disparate environmental risk. It's not an appropriate comparison even if Somalia was extracting oil.

What? Somalia is going export oil by air through the careful positioning of pipelines upwards in to the sky that will shoot out the black liquid to China and beyond? Oil is exported by ships, plenty of situations where oil-spills have happened in such scenarios, off-shore drilling is not the only threat to an ocean's eco-system.

 

These five points are moot. Make or break an oil-blessed country?? Damn - you don't even know if you are an oil blessed country or in what quantities.

Stuck in the present again, Somalia has oil and it has alot of it.

 

People raising objections at this point are simply illogical. Their thinking is - we have no idea what we have but we shouldn't even look to see if we have anything because we're afraid of x, y and z.

Clear misrepresentation of the concrete argument you have such a hard time countering. Instead to be more factually correct you should have stated that we do not want to be exploited, nor do we want our future generations to suffer from the illogical and shady decisions of our time, hence we want transperancy and accountability.

 

Why are you so afraid of these two terms?

[Fiqikhayre]

Of course another option would be to wait anything from 5-15 years and leave possible infrastructure and lively hood improvements out? Unfortunately Puntlanders are not mate out of such self-pitying and watching oneself in inaction.

 

MMA told us Federalism was not possible in Somalia and that it is not going to work - Although it is the only form!

 

Puntland is the leader! Our objectives were to bring a national government back for the Somali people that works under the Federal governance system with autonomous states forming a new Federal Somalia after they themselves decide to join it. To up-hold the territorial integrity of our country. And lastly but not least that every Somali wherever he lives is entitled to enter business dealings with outside companies to develop his place of birth of least village level and share the profits with the district, region, state and federal levels after a constitution is adopted.

 

Puntland people are pro-active people and through their want of improving themselves and being in a role-model position for the rest of Somalia it see's itself as a pioneer, a state that cannot do wrong.

 

This is Bilan's problem, it's psychological her mind frame is to do more with the uniform communist like equality and centralist form that she has been indoctrinated with.

 

She see's it as a crime and scares to death that the elected leader of Puntland, State Parliament could get hard cash from the Oil companies, which will result in the improvements of livelihoods. In her mislead believe the money would be best save in Mogadishu, the national's capital! An iron grip and fist should be extended to the regions where the wealth is found and possibly suffocated if they rebel!

 

Cleary the sorts of MMA, Bilan and others live an different era to the reality on the ground. Praises be to Allaah things have moved on and for the better, I say.

[N.O.R.F]

Chimera;783562 wrote:

I haven't seen a single piece of writing regarding this deal. Yeah pretty dark to me.

 

 

 

- The duration of their leases.

- The percentages.

- The role of the federal government.

- The role of the governments the oil-companies are registered in.

- The conduct of exploration and contingency plans.

 

I want to see this in writing, not Al-Jazeera videos or BBC articles.

 

 

 

Assume? Where is the deal in writing? Everything now is just through hearsay from those involved, no disclosure of the agreement has been made, hence its an utter cloak of darkness.

 

 

 

Somalia has oil, and it has alot of it, geologically and geographically speaking its tantamount to wondering whether there is ice in Antartica. Its therefore absolutely important that whatever deal is signed, benefits the Somali people, otherwise we will be duped like the Chadians, I'm pretty sure they had the same mentality as you when they entered into those agreements.

 

 

 

 

You're illogical, how can Puntland set up a "Petroleum and Minerals Agency" if they have no idea of there being oil in those basins? Why invest in green-energy today when there is plenty of oil around? Why go to a damn college if your not sure you're going to graduate or be alive in four years time? What's the point of the bloody future if your illogical argument wants to force us to look only at the present?

 

 

 

What about this:

http://www.lhup.edu/rmyers3/MyRange.htm

 

On its website Range affirms its commitment to safe water: "Because Pennsylvania has one of the largest water resources in the nation, we recognize that being good stewards of these resources is extremely important." But apparently the folks at Range define good stewardship in a slightly different manner than is customary. On May 27, 2009 a leaking waste-water pipe from a Range gas well polluted a tributary of Cross Creek Lake in Washington County. The spill killed fish, salamanders, crayfish, and aquatic insects.[1] On May 14, 2010, the DEP fined Range $141,175 for spilling 250 barrels of fracking fluid into a high-quality waterway in Washington County in October 2009. [2]

 

Range claims on its website that their "commitment to protecting the environment" can be seen in their erosion control efforts. According to the DEP, Range was cited at least six times between 2009 and 2010 for "failure to minimize accelerated erosion" at sites in Clinton, Lycoming and Green counties.[3] The citation of September 28, 2009 noted that their failure to implement and maintain an erosion plan resulted in sediment discharge into Hoagland Run.

 

Range also insists that they "work every day to train our employees and contractors and see that they follow and understand regulations and company standards related to safety." If that's true, it's difficult to understand why Range was cited twice in 2009 for "Failure to notify DEP of pollution incident." In the Cross Creek incident, Range employees waited nearly four hours before contacting DEP.[4]

 

Range's website notes that "After drilling is complete, our aim is to be a good guest and leave things the way we found them - or even better." However, according to the DEP, one of Range's Greene County operations was cited on March 22, 2010 for "Failure to restore site w/in 9 months of completion of drilling or plugging."

 

This is in America, which has an established system to deal with shady companies, and hence RR was forced to rectify its mistakes, what exactly does Puntland have in place to force them to do this? How do you know Faroole will give the slighest damn about an oil spill in Bosaso, as long as the money keeps rolling in? I do, he won't give a damn, and there will be no one in the future to hold him accountable, because some genius in the past told us "how do you know there is oil in the first place" lol.

 

 

 

What? Somalia is going export oil by air through the careful positioning of pipelines upwards in to the sky that will shoot out the black liquid to China and beyond? Oil is exported by ships, plenty of situations where oil-spills have happened in such scenarios, off-shore drilling is not the only threat to an ocean's eco-system.

 

 

 

Stuck in the present again, Somalia has oil and it has alot of it.

 

 

 

Clear misrepresentation of the concrete argument you have such a hard time countering. Instead to be more factually correct you should have stated that we do not want to be exploited, nor do we want our future generations to suffer from the illogical and shady decisions of our time, hence we want transperancy and accountability.

 

Why are you so afraid of these two terms?

Hear hear.

 

When I watched the AJE video my first thought was he was lying. Until the agreement is seen there will be many questions.

[xiinfaniin]

No to exploitation, and no to shady deals. Yes to transparency , and accountability.

 

But at this point both No's and Yes's are neither her nor there. We are at the exploration phase. Once the ninety-day drilling operation is complete and prospects are known/estimated, there will be production agreement that will be signed. Somalia's federal government will be involved. Possibly, companies doing the drilling now, may not be the ones entering production contract with Somalia.

 

In short, we are putting the cart before the horse.

 

Consider this: Somalia has been neglected for twenty plus years. War, famine and terrorism has become the hall mark of our national identity. When the world financial papers and mega media outlets are dedicating segments discussing the prospect of oil and how it can transform the region and its people, reasonable Somalis should welcome the respite of bad coverage , instead of commenting hypothetical scenario of environmental disaster and what have you.

[ElPunto]

^Exactly. Bal adiga usheeg.

 

Chimera;783562 wrote:

I haven't seen a single piece of writing regarding this deal. Yeah pretty dark to me.

 

 

 

- The duration of their leases.

- The percentages.

- The role of the federal government.

- The role of the governments the oil-companies are registered in.

- The conduct of exploration and contingency plans.

 

I want to see this in writing, not Al-Jazeera videos or BBC articles.

 

 

 

Assume? Where is the deal in writing? Everything now is just through hearsay from those involved, no disclosure of the agreement has been made, hence its an utter cloak of darkness.

I'm sure SOLers can enlighten you here. From my perspective not important at this time.

 

Somalia has oil, and it has alot of it, geologically and geographically speaking its tantamount to wondering whether there is ice in Antartica. Its therefore absolutely important that whatever deal is signed, benefits the Somali people, otherwise we will be duped like the Chadians, I'm pretty sure they had the same mentality as you when they entered into those agreements.

Really? - it is believed that the oceans contain vast quantities of resources but that is neither here or there until it is proven. I'm afraid your analogy is a poor one.

 

You do know agreements can be changed in the future? If the Chadians were duped why do you assume we will be too since we have you and Bilan to stop us from that folly. Ultimately deal terms don't much matter now - let's see what we have - and then the real negotiating will begin.

 

You're illogical, how can Puntland set up a "Petroleum and Minerals Agency" if they have no idea of there being oil in those basins? Why invest in green-energy today when there is plenty of oil around? Why go to a damn college if your not sure you're going to graduate or be alive in four years time? What's the point of the bloody future if your illogical argument wants to force us to look only at the present?

No - you're illogical. They set up that agency to prospect and to spur business in the hope that they will strike oil. But you're asking them to set up an environmental agency/contingency to prevent oil spills when they don't even know they have oil. It's not a proper comparison.You make plans on what is possible and probable - you don't make plans on something that is not a possiblity.

 

What about this:

http://www.lhup.edu/rmyers3/MyRange.htm

 

On its website Range affirms its commitment to safe water: "Because Pennsylvania has one of the largest water resources in the nation, we recognize that being good stewards of these resources is extremely important." But apparently the folks at Range define good stewardship in a slightly different manner than is customary. On May 27, 2009 a leaking waste-water pipe from a Range gas well polluted a tributary of Cross Creek Lake in Washington County. The spill killed fish, salamanders, crayfish, and aquatic insects.[1] On May 14, 2010, the DEP fined Range $141,175 for spilling 250 barrels of fracking fluid into a high-quality waterway in Washington County in October 2009. [2]

 

Range claims on its website that their "commitment to protecting the environment" can be seen in their erosion control efforts. According to the DEP, Range was cited at least six times between 2009 and 2010 for "failure to minimize accelerated erosion" at sites in Clinton, Lycoming and Green counties.[3] The citation of September 28, 2009 noted that their failure to implement and maintain an erosion plan resulted in sediment discharge into Hoagland Run.

 

Range also insists that they "work every day to train our employees and contractors and see that they follow and understand regulations and company standards related to safety." If that's true, it's difficult to understand why Range was cited twice in 2009 for "Failure to notify DEP of pollution incident." In the Cross Creek incident, Range employees waited nearly four hours before contacting DEP.[4]

 

Range's website notes that "After drilling is complete, our aim is to be a good guest and leave things the way we found them - or even better." However, according to the DEP, one of Range's Greene County operations was cited on March 22, 2010 for "Failure to restore site w/in 9 months of completion of drilling or plugging."

 

This is in America, which has an established system to deal with shady companies, and hence RR was forced to rectify its mistakes, what exactly does Puntland have in place to force them to do this? How do you know Faroole will give the slighest damn about an oil spill in Bosaso, as long as the money keeps rolling in? I do, he won't give a damn, and there will be no one in the future to hold him accountable, because some genius in the past told us "how do you know there is oil in the first place" lol.

What about it? Is this part of pattern of behaviour? What is their overall record? I need more information than one case. As to shady - I refer you to Ngonge.

 

How do you know there will be no one to hold Faroole accountable in the future? Is this about Farole or RR and the environment? If Faroole - let's see if oil is there and before production demand an environmental mgmt plan. If about RR - find out their record and their procedures first. But all that is hypothetical. I think reason dictates we wait at this point.

 

What? Somalia is going export oil by air through the careful positioning of pipelines upwards in to the sky that will shoot out the black liquid to China and beyond? Oil is exported by ships, plenty of situations where oil-spills have happened in such scenarios, off-shore drilling is not the only threat to an ocean's eco-system.

Pipeline on to tanker. It's done all the time. To make a comparison between BP and the PL onshore is mistaken. Again - it's odd to be talking about this at this juncture.

 

Stuck in the present again, Somalia has oil and it has alot of it.

So you keep saying. You have a hard time differentiating between your wish/hope and what has been proven empirically.

 

Clear misrepresentation of the concrete argument you have such a hard time countering. Instead to be more factually correct you should have stated that we do not want to be exploited, nor do we want our future generations to suffer from the illogical and shady decisions of our time, hence we want transperancy and accountability.

 

Why are you so afraid of these two terms?

If you have nothing - can you be exploited? If you don't know what you have - how can you know if you're being exploited? Illogical and shady decisions can be changed and transparency/accountability demanded - but what is needed right now is facts regarding the oil resources in Somalia. Without facts to go upon - illogical/shady/accountability/transparency are words on a screen.

[Chimera]

ElPunto;783585 wrote:

^I'm sure SOLers can enlighten you here. From my perspective not important at this time.

I'm sure they can, but the onus was on you!

 

Really? - it is believed that the oceans contain vast quantities of resources but that is neither here or there until it is proven. I'm afraid your analogy is a poor one.

Ah, yes, until its proven and so we can say the myriad of planets scientists are 100% sure of having water are "unproven" claims because they haven't actually taken water from the surfaces of those planets.

 

You do know agreements can be changed in the future?

What is this? Elpunto the "presentist" speaking of the future? No way!

 

If the Chadians were duped why do you assume we will be too since we have you and Bilan to stop us from that folly.

Yet we are called "haters" or more amusing "environmentalist" as if its somekind of insult, its a badge of honour.

 

Ultimately deal terms don't much matter now - let's see what we have - and then the real negotiating will begin.

Wouldn't it be better to see the current deals, and deduce from that whether those signing them are actually competent to do so when the real negotiations start?

 

No - you're illogical. They set up that agency to prospect and to spur business in the hope that they will strike oil.

How do they know there is oil? You just told me it was "unproven", why bother then? In one part of your post you're dismissing 80 years of geological surveys in Somalia, and in the next part you assume there is actually something beneath the soil.

 

It makes no sense.

 

But you're asking them to set up an environmental agency/contingency to prevent oil spills when they don't even know they have oil. It's not a proper comparison.You make plans on what is possible and probable - you don't make plans on something that is not a possiblity.

Why can't the likes of Bilan wish for Puntland to show visionary planning by establishing such a protectionary agency? By the time the oil would be exported this agency would have matured sufficiently and trained the necessary people for contingency plans, not to mention acquired expertise.

 

What about it? Is this part of pattern of behaviour? What is their overall record? I need more information than one case. As to shady - I refer you to Ngonge.

RR is a small company, yet their mishaps in America can't be swept under the rug, since that is the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world, a clear motive to be on good behaviour, and still this mess happened. Puntland has none of America's institutions to hold them or any other company part of this or future deals accountable for their mishaps.

 

How do you know there will be no one to hold Faroole accountable in the future?

Who is holding him accountable for his extension?

 

Who is holding him accountable for missing funds?

 

Who is holding him accountable for the deportation of IDP's from the South?

 

Who is holding him accountable for the arrests of journalists?

 

Answer = Nobody.

 

Is this about Farole or RR and the environment?

All of the above! I don't want to see a one man show a.k.a Gaddhafi 2.0, nor do I want to see the type of practices American oil-companies are unleashing on Nigeria's environment.

 

If Faroole - let's see if oil is there and before production demand an environmental mgmt plan. If about RR - find out their record and their procedures first. But all that is

hypothetical

. I think reason dictates we wait at this point.

Why wait, what would the negative side be of caution? None! What would the negative side of lazynimo and myopia be? See the Niger Delta!

 

Pipeline on to tanker. It's done all the time. To make a comparison between BP and the PL onshore is mistaken. Again - it's odd to be talking about this at this juncture.

What? People can fantasize about Somali cities reaching Tokyo and Dubai status but how dare someone give a thought about our People's rights and Nature's health?

 

If you have nothing - can you be exploited? If you don't know what you have - how can you know if you're being exploited? Illogical and shady decisions can be changed and transparency/accountability demanded - but what is needed right now is facts regarding the oil resources in Somalia. Without facts to go upon - illogical/shady/accountability/transparency are words on a screen.

Your attempt at a counter-argument is still stuck in the presence, while my argument and that of Bilan is firmly rooted in the future, for this entire endevour is a futuristic project, which needs futuristic planning. If you think RR or those other companies like Africa Oil are waiting for "facts" to make a fortune in the future then that is a clear delusion of reality, for they have planners, and they have gone through all the geological surveys of the last 80 years in Somalia to plan the future of their businesses and wealth, why shouldn't we do the same?

[Chimera]

xiinfaniin;783576 wrote:

No to exploitation, and no to shady deals. Yes to transparency , and accountability.

 

But at this point both No's and Yes's are neither her nor there. We are at the exploration phase. Once the ninety-day drilling operation is complete and prospects are known/estimated, there will be production agreement that will be signed. Somalia's federal government will be involved. Possibly, companies doing the drilling now, may not be the ones entering production contract with Somalia.

 

In short, we are putting the cart before the horse.

 

Consider this: Somalia has been neglected for twenty plus years. War, famine and terrorism has become the whole mark of our national identity. When the world financial papers and mega media outlets are dedicating segments discussing the prospect of oil and how it can transform the region and its people, reasonable Somalis should welcome the respite of bad coverage , instead of commenting hypothetical scenario of environmental disaster and what have you.

Xiinfaniin my call for more transparency and accountability comes as result of reading the Oil-histories of countries like Chad and Equatorial Guinea, and the environmental destruction ongoing in Nigeria. I will take a decade of bad media coverage with our resources and nature safe, over a decade of cleaning an environmental disaster, or having to deal with a Siad Barre on steroids high on oil-money. Are you hundred percent sure, those negative hallmarks of our current national identity will disappear once the oil start flowing? Do we have the type of leaders to raise our people's standards of living? While Oodweyne recently called me a bootlegged version of you - which I take great pride in, I however do not share your optimistic view in this case.

[ElPunto]

Chimera;783603 wrote:

I'm sure they can, but the onus was on you!

 

Ah, yes, until its proven and so we can say the myriad of planets scientists are 100% sure of having water are "unproven" claims because they haven't actually taken water from the surfaces of those planets.

 

What is this? Elpunto the "presentist" speaking of the future? No way!

No there is no onus on me - I told why at this juncture it's irrelevant.

 

I take it you're not disputing it is unproven. In Somalia and on the planets.

 

I speak of the future when I have an idea of what it may probably be and plan accordingly for it in the present. I don't make current plans on daydreams of what the future might be. It's as if I plan and build beach hotels in Somalia now on the basis that Chimera will be the president of Somalia in the near future and tourism will boom.

 

Yet we are called "haters" or more amusing "environmentalist" as if its somekind of insult, its a badge of honour.

Complain to those who called you hater not me. Environmentalist is a badge of honour. But you're confusing that with Chicken Little. That is not a badge of honour.

 

Wouldn't it be better to see the current deals, and deduce from that whether those signing them are actually competent to do so when the real negotiations start?

I agree - we should see the current deals. But we are at the exploratory stage - it doesn't matter much at this stage of the process. It will be vital at the stage of extraction and production. There is a difference.

 

How do they know there is oil? You just told me it was "unproven", why bother then? In one part of your post you're dismissing 80 years of geological surveys in Somalia, and in the next part you assume there is actually something beneath the soil.

 

It makes no sense.

I'm tempted here to tell you to re-read what I wrote but I will try once again. They didn't/don't know there was oil - they hoped for it. The oil resources are unproven. This is what this stage of the process is about - proving them. You can have a hypothesis and then move to prove it. But you can't make plans on the hypothesis being true without proving it to be so first - ie make an environmental agency/contingency.

 

Why can't the likes of Bilan wish for Puntland to show visionary planning by establishing such a protectionary agency? By the time the oil would be exported this agency would have matured sufficiently and trained the necessary people for contingency plans, not to mention acquired expertise.

You can wish for that. But you're facing scarce resources. Quite frankly I'd rather the money was spent on wells and schools rather than an agency whose very need for existence you have yet to establish.

 

RR is a small company, yet their mishaps in America can't be swept under the rug, since that is the wealthiest and most powerful country in the world, a clear motive to be on good behaviour, and still this mess happened. Puntland has none of America's institutions to hold them or any other company part of this or future deals accountable for their mishaps.

Yes - you have shown me one mishap. What does that mean for Puntland? That they should cancel the exploration in Dharoor? Should they cancel all contracts? We're talking about the present here.

 

The other thing - before you can impugn the environmental record of this company - you do have to show it is a clear and willful pattern. Otherwise this is more chicken little.

 

Who is holding him accountable for his extension?

 

Who is holding him accountable for missing funds?

 

Who is holding him accountable for the deportation of IDP's from the South?

 

Who is holding him accountable for the arrests of journalists?

 

Answer = Nobody.

No one - but the petty dictates of this flawed leader can't be compared to potentially hundreds of millions if oil is found. The central government, oil producing districts and even sub-sub-clans will demand to know where the money went.

 

All of the above! I don't want to see a one man show a.k.a Gaddhafi 2.0, nor do I want to see the type of practices American oil-companies are unleashing on Nigeria's environment.

I don't either. We're not at that stage. And really you think the present situation in PL/Somalia is better than LIbya or NIgeria in terms of infrastructure, access to services, etc. I don't believe so. Becoming like Libya or Nigeria is a step up for Somalia. Though I and you have higher aims.

 

 

Why wait, what would the negative side be of caution? None! What would the negative side of lazynimo and myopia be? See the Niger Delta!

 

What? People can fantasize about Somali cities reaching Tokyo and Dubai status but how dare someone give a thought about our People's rights and Nature's health?

 

Your attempt at a counter-argument is still stuck in the presence, while my argument and that of Bilan is firmly rooted in the future, for this entire endevour is a futuristic project, which needs futuristic planning. If you think RR or those other companies like Africa Oil are waiting for "facts" to make a fortune in the future then that is a clear delusion of reality, for they have planners, and they have gone through all the geological surveys of the last 80 years in Somalia to plan the future of their businesses and wealth, why shouldn't we do the same?

Don't we have to have an inkling of the future before we make plans for it? Isn't it prudent to wait and see before plunging into plan making? Won't it make a differnce to our plans if the oil found is 200 million barrels or 20 billion barrels? Don't you have to marshall your scarce resources effectively rather than speculatively?

 

Your argument is based on a premature and alarmist conception of the future. Not sure there is anything that will change that.

[Carafaat]

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;783194 wrote:

LoL, Blue. You reminded me to this childhood friend of mine. Back in somewhere in mid 2000s, he used to email me from Nayroobi, telling me to call this special number that he got from this 'congratulations, you won' website. Since the phone number was an American number, he told me to call it for him. I told him iska iloow waxaas, oo waa beentood. He wouldn't believe it. Scam iyo waxaas muu kuu yaqaan. I told him, haye waa kuu wacaa. But ma anaa u wacay. No frigging way.

Looool.

 

MMA, I had some similar experience with friends back in African and Europe with great deals which actually were ponzi schemes and email scams. I tried to explain it, they didnt belief me either and some even thaught I was being xaasid. Nowadays, if someone doesnt seem interested in any free advice I dont even bother and say Good Luck!

 

And this case is quite similar. Cause any smart business minded person would always be interested in advice, certainly when its free of charge.

[Timur]

Chimera;783608 wrote:

Xiinfaniin my call for more transparency and accountability comes as result of reading the Oil-histories of countries like Chad and Equatorial Guinea, and the environmental destruction ongoing in Nigeria. I will take a decade of bad media coverage with our resources and nature safe, over a decade of cleaning an environmental disaster,

You live in the diaspora eating seven meals a day, your opinion on environmental disaster in this scenario is a joke. "Our resources" - lol. For someone who lives in Norway or California its expected of you to have a bad sense of seeing other peoples' perspectives.

 

I'll take the opinions of the poor remittance-reliant families in Bari instead, and I'm sure the environment is not their first concern or even fifth concern.

 

This naive kid reminds me of those White liberals who care more about African wildlife than African people.

[Axmed-InaJaad]

Carafaat;783699 wrote:

Looool.

 

MMA, I had some similar experience with friends back in African and Europe with great deals which actually were ponzi schemes and email scams. I tried to explain it, they didnt belief me either and some even thaught I was being xaasid. Nowadays, if someone doesnt seem interested in any free advice I dont even bother and say Good Luck!

 

And this case is quite similar. Cause any smart business minded person would always be interested in advice, certainly when its free of charge.

lol talow how many somali's were tricked by these scams. somali's always want easy money

[uchi]

Who are you Chimera? Why would anyone show you the contract? You're not that important dear, go back to your bitter life and let the grown ups worry about the future of Puntland & Somalia.

[kingofkings]

Chimera;783608 wrote:

Xiinfaniin my call for more transparency and accountability comes as result of reading the Oil-histories of countries like Chad and Equatorial Guinea, and the environmental destruction ongoing in Nigeria. I will take a decade of bad media coverage with our resources and nature safe, over a decade of cleaning an environmental disaster, or having to deal with a Siad Barre on steroids high on oil-money. Are you hundred percent sure, those negative hallmarks of our current national identity will disappear once the oil start flowing? Do we have the type of leaders to raise our people's standards of living? While Oodweyne recently called me a bootlegged version of you - which I take great pride in, I however do not share your optimistic view in this case.

Once the oil comes, will you still ask silly questions?

[Carafaat]

Axmed-InaJaad;783712 wrote:

lol talow how many somali's were tricked by these scams. somali's always want easy money

There have many ponzi schemes in Somali community. The fact that we are an oral society who give little value in actual written contracts and because of our extensive network, mouth to mouth adverstising or propaganda spreads fastthus making us easier pray for these ponzi schemes.

 

Did you know there are even stock listed ponzi schemes or pyramid games? And this oil deal contains many elements of a ponzi scheme/pyramide game.

[Che -Guevara]

uchi;783723 wrote:

Who are you Chimera? Why would anyone show you the contract? You're not that important dear, go back to your bitter life and let the grown ups worry about the future of Puntland & Somalia.

Chimera is the one of the most well meaning nomad on this SOL. His questions about the oil is not out of bitterness and envy. Healthy discussion about this potential wealth should be welcomed.