Congratulations, You Won

[Timur]

A well-meaning person does not use MickyD-fed glasses to steer a project that affects people in a place where there are no MickyD chains. This person questions the oil because they cannot see Somalia move on without their participation, its as simple as that.

 

What do those of us who want this project to succeed get out of it? Nothing. And at best it provides us only a chance to work in a lucrative civilian job that we can get today in Qatar, Abu Dhabi or any other present oil-producing state, even in Alaska or Alberta!

 

A well-meaning person looks at both sides and supports the side that can produce the most amount of utility - this is ethics 101. There is no risk for the communities in northeastern Somalia whether or not this project works out, least of all some "environmental" risk - this is not the lush Niger delta nor Mississippi delta nor the Orinoco delta, this is arid northern Somalia where there are no rivers or lakes to be contaminated (if this person or the illiterate Bilan girl had been educated even marginally on the topic they would know that the contamination of river deltas are the archetype of oil-based environmental degradation - clearly not a case anywhere in arid Puntland). In any case, if one of chimera's arguments is that "now is the right time" (a common & ignorant phrase) then it defeats their silly environmentalist position. I'm also an environmentalist (a genuine one, not the type who pops up when it suits them) and I see no case to be made here, there is no "environment" to destroy in the middle of arid Bari; had this been in the Jubba river valley or on the shores of Ras Aseyr you could make a case and I would support it, but this is not that.

 

If I had more time I would write a bit longer and put chimera in his/or her corner, perhaps tomorrow will be more open.

[Che -Guevara]

^There's always a concern if the production area is close to human habitation whether landscape is arid or lush with green. Toxicity would always concern specially in regards underground streams if there are any. That said, if the question is does the good out weigh the bad, I would yes and any potential oil and minerals should be explored. We can't just continue living in abject poverty, the underlying of the Somali cause.

 

In any case, legitimate questions shouldn't be dismissed and those asking them be 'put in there place'. After all, Somalia belong to all Somalia despite the current fractious nature of our society.

 

MMA....Politics is what changed and brought GO on board.

[uchi]

Che -Guevara;783776 wrote:

^There's always a concern if the production area is close to human habitation whether landscape is arid or lush with green. Toxicity would always concern specially in regards underground streams if there are any. That said, if the question is does the good out weigh the bad, I would yes and any potential oil and minerals should be explored. We can't just continue living in abject poverty, the underlying of the Somali cause.

 

In any case, legitimate questions shouldn't be dismissed and those asking them be 'put in there place'. After all, Somalia belong to all Somalia despite the current fractious nature of our society.

 

MMA....Politics is what changed and brought GO on board.

Hmmm, nothing legitimate in his hate speech rant~

[Carafaat]

uchi, asking question regarding natural resources in Somalia can't be called hate speeches. But you seem to be angry, care to explain why?

[Somalia]

Carafaat;783935 wrote:

uchi, asking question regarding natural resources in Somalia can't be called hate speeches. But you seem to be angry, care to explain why?

Care to explain the sudden interest of other people in the affairs of Puntland?

[Carafaat]

Somalia;783938 wrote:

Care to explain the sudden interest of other people in the affairs of Puntland?

Puntland waa hormoodka, madaxda Somalia, reer Boqorkeena. And with like every Royal family, it kind of attracts attention. Look at the Brittish Royals, they are daily in the news and get all kind of slander. Just get used to it, cause its the price of fame.

[uchi]

Carafaat;783935 wrote:

uchi, asking question regarding natural resources in Somalia can't be called hate speeches. But you seem to be angry, care to explain why?

It's an 8 page thread, perhaps read all his posts~ hate speech maybe is too strong of a definition.

[Chimera]

ElPunto;783613 wrote:

No there is no onus on me - I told why at this juncture it's irrelevant.

Time flies sxb, in March the black liquid will be gushing out of the rig, and we still won't know whether these current characters are capable of making the kind of deals that will transform our people's future for the better.

 

I take it you're not disputing it is unproven. In Somalia and on the planets.

The weight of evidence and expertise tips the scale from theory to reality.

 

I speak of the future when I have an idea of what it may probably be and plan accordingly for it in the present. I don't make current plans on daydreams of what the future might be.

We are discussing a country here with a population of 10 to 12 million people, and another hundred million creatures in our land and oceanic habitats. Future planning, and being ready can't be misrepresented into being "day-dreams". One can deduce from the material available that Somalia will be a major oil-producing country, hence we should learn from other countries' mistakes and prevent such mishaps.

 

It's as if I plan and build beach hotels in Somalia now on the basis that Chimera will be the president of Somalia in the near future and tourism will boom.

Oh trust me, Somalia becoming a tourist giant is not even a matter of "if" but one of "when", so that would be a great investment in the long run.

 

Complain to those who called you hater not me. Environmentalist is a badge of honour.

The heckling by intellectual light-weights doesn't bother me in the slighest. Most of them are Somalinet refugees, nobodies basically.

 

But you're confusing that with Chicken Little. That is not a badge of honour.

A fallacy, I did not say we shouldn't have explorations in Somalia, however if there is no accountability nor transparency what's the point of these explorations in the first place when we don't even know if the deals will benefit the average man and woman back home?

 

I agree - we should see the current deals. But we are at the exploratory stage - it doesn't matter much at this stage of the process. It will be vital at the stage of extraction and production. There is a difference.

As I said before; time flies. A few months ago I noticed an article with pictures of trucks and equipment heading towards the Dharoor Valley, not long after articles galore of the fully-fledged Oil-rig in place. It took me by surprise, and a similar fast leap will occur with this exploration.

 

I'm tempted here to tell you to re-read what I wrote but I will try once again. They didn't/don't know there was oil - they hoped for it. The oil resources are unproven. This is what this stage of the process is about - proving them. You can have a hypothesis and then move to prove it. But you can't make plans on the hypothesis being true without proving it to be so first - ie make an environmental agency/contingency.

Granted, but its better to be safe than sorry.

 

You can wish for that. But you're facing scarce resources. Quite frankly I'd rather the money was spent on wells and schools rather than an agency whose very need for existence you have yet to establish.

An all-encompassing environmental agency is very must justified today, even if no oil were to be found. Plenty of competent Somali activists and professional that could be part of such an organisation. In fact this a pet project of mine if things pan out for me financially.

 

Yes - you have shown me one mishap. What does that mean for Puntland? That they should cancel the exploration in Dharoor? Should they cancel all contracts? We're talking about the present here.

Caution is not a vice its a virtue. The exploration companies are already planning their profits and their shares, why shouldn't Puntland demand they also plan contingency plans? And if they have, why is it not available to the public in simple writing? I can find anything I want to know about Apple Inc with a simple mouse-click, and this is the most valuable company in the world, why is there such a lack of info on this project prospected to be worth 20 Apple companies?

 

The other thing - before you can impugn the environmental record of this company - you do have to show it is a clear and willful pattern.

2 cases is a pattern, and in the most powerful country in the world to boot.

 

Otherwise this is more chicken little.

You're curious about the oil beneath Somalia's soil and willing to shove all other important matters aside. We both know what curiousity did to the Cat.

 

No one - but the petty dictates of this flawed leader can't be compared to potentially hundreds of millions if oil is found. The central government, oil producing districts and even sub-sub-clans will demand to know where the money went.

They will get pocket-change to what they actually deserve. A few hundred million would be enough to shut the clan-leaders up, while the flawed leader - held accountable by no one - will stash the billions in Europe, which already houses 800 BILLION DOLLARS from African clowns dubbed "leaders".

 

I don't either. We're not at that stage. And really you think the present situation in PL/Somalia is better than LIbya or NIgeria in terms of infrastructure, access to services, etc. I don't believe so.

Somalia's current living standards are result of a paralysing conflict, otherwise major investment would have put Somalia in a good position. We shouldn't sacrifice our resources or nature that holds the potential to benefit the next twenty-five generations just because of our current situation. Nothing suggest the situation will get better when the oil is pumped out at disadvantaged deals. Somalia root causes need to be addressed first, for all that Oil could not save Libya from a brutal civil-war.

 

Becoming like Libya or Nigeria is a step up for Somalia.

A peaceful Somalia without tapping into its resources made bigger gains in women-rights, education, democracy and self-sufficiency than both those countries. Neither could the latter countries have survived two decades of state-collapse. Somalia is going its own path and will evolve into a genuine robust country, much like the evolution of European countries a century ago.

 

Though I and you have higher aims.

Oh, most definitely. A Malaysia with better beaches, or a Turkey in Africa - atleast by 2030!

 

Don't we have to have an inkling of the future before we make plans for it? Isn't it prudent to wait and see before plunging into plan making? Won't it make a differnce to our plans if the oil found is 200 million barrels or 20 billion barrels? Don't you have to marshall your scarce resources effectively rather than speculatively?

People make contingency plans without something being found all the time, its part of business. In fact in some countries this is compulsory, much the same way architects and real-estate giants have to take a myriad of things into account when they plan to built a highrise building in the middle of a city,

 

Your argument is based on a premature and alarmist conception of the future. Not sure there is anything that will change that.

My evidence of corruption and non-accountability occuring in Puntland has already been established in previous posts, and the cases of pollution at the hands of foreigners and their Somali collaborators is well-known, hence my alarmist conception is very much justified.

[Carafaat]

uchi;783947 wrote:

It's an 8 page thread, perhaps read all his posts~ hate speech maybe is too strong of a definition.

Brother Chimera is one the most constructive and enlightened folks around here. Have enjoyed every single of his threads here. Therefor an apology would be suitable in this case then. Unless you want the 9******* star Nomad opposing you for real.

[Burn Notice]

Carafaat;783977 wrote:

Brother Chimera is one the most constructive and enlightened folks around here. Have enjoyed every single of his threads here. Therefor an apology would be suitable in this case then. Unless you want the 9******* star Nomad opposing you for real.

if Chimera believes what Bilan wrote has merit then it is as deluded. I will write an email to all the oil companies and tell them to stop throwing away millions of dollars on siesmics and just use Google earth to find the oil lol

 

Messi rules

[General Duke]

I find this whole thing amusing. The Oil will not be a problem for you. Today the poverty of Puntland is not a problem for you. Thus all this concern for the environment, for the profit sharing, for the well being of the civilians of this region. A region who's cities some of you want to occupy. Who's politicians you vilify and insult. Who's historical contribution you play down.

 

No the likes of MMA, Carafat, Oodweyne and even this Bilan, should not worry or waste their time on the harmful effects of this Oil deal. It will be a problem for this region to handle and of its people to solve, a people I might add that you never cared for in the least. Why then do you worry if we get sucked into a Ponzi scheme? Or care if, Oil waste seeps into and kills all the green pastures?

 

No my brothers, don't worry about us, we shall take care of ourselves and if we can help, as always you shall find us available and willing to help you.

[kingofkings]

General Duke;784405 wrote:

I find this whole thing amusing. The Oil will not be a problem for you. Today the poverty of Puntland is not a problem for you. Thus all this concern for the environment, for the profit sharing, for the well being of the civilians of this region. A region who's cities some of you want to occupy. Who's politicians you vilify and insult. Who's historical contribution you play down.

 

No the likes of MMA, Carafat, Oodweyne and even Bilan, should not worry about the harmful effects of the Oil. It will be the problem of this region and of this people who you never cared for. Why do you mind if we get sucked into a Ponzi or if Oil seeps and kills all the green pastures?

 

No my brothers, don't worry about us, we shall take care of ourselves and if we can help, like always we shall help you.

Well done. Bravo! Encore!. Couldn't said better myself.

[kingofkings]

i just can't get enough of their lame attempt of concern for people they never cared for or for that matter liked. Now, they tell us their concern for our land in order to hold back the local people attempt to improve their standard of living. I have one message for all of you; no amount of fake concerns will hold back Puntland and their future endeavours.

[General Duke]

^^^^Its weird. But hey I love the new angle. Now its all about the "people". The same people the Al shabaab supporters here wanted to blow up. The secessionist supporters call "pirates" and "defeated lot" and who's regions they want to occupy. The same people that the fake nationalists nostalgics claim their houses are bigger than and so on...

 

Adeer we shall not wait, nor procrastinate on our god given right to better ourselves. You can wait for your recognition, for your just government, we shall not wait any longer, not a second more to take what is ours...

[Burn Notice]

General Duke;784414 wrote:

^^^^Its weird. But hey I love the new angle. Now its all about the "people". The same people the Al shabaab supporters here wanted to blow up. The secessionist supporters call "pirates" and "defeated lot" and who's regions they want to occupy. The same people that the fake nationalists nostalgics claim their houses are bigger than and so on...

 

Adeer we shall not wait, nor procrastinate on our god given right to better ourselves. You can wait for your recognition, for your just government, we shall not wait any longer, not a second more to take what is ours...

Magnificent posts GD

 

Thank you for taking the time for sharing with us...& enlightening the others