Our Position on the war on Khatumo

[ElPunto]

NGONGE;783420 wrote:

Nonesense, saaxib. The people met in Taleex but chose three presidents for eighteen months. The people, frankly, don't know what they want. The people keep coming and going from SL. So why do you want me to give up on the 'people' now? Give me a good and strong reason to do so and I will happily do it.

 

What you're talking about is an admittedly messy process and projecting the people's actual desires based on that. The process has its limitations as you have amply pointed out. But the core desire according to the masses at Taleex is clear. No to Somaliland and secession and yes to a regional state. If you're saying I don't believe that - I haven't seen the arguments there apart from the individuals allied with Somaliland. I'm not sure how fair it is to say that either - it's as if someone insists that the majority of Somalilanders actually don't really want to secede - and all their protesatations to the contrary are just hot air.

 

I'd like to know - How do you define division and the people not knowing what they want - is it based on certain individuals or based on the best available guage of the 'people'? What would it take for you to give up on the people?

[ElPunto]

Naxar Nugaaleed;783496 wrote:

The will of the people of khaatumo is as clear as Day. I know it, you know it, we all know it. But as has always been the case, some here will not feign ignorance and and will continue as we've come to realize about them that the actions of few politicians are somehow indicative of the division or unity of these people. This day and age we should really know better. we have seen people come out in support of the new state in almost all of the cities, towns, and settlements. We have seen towns that word pro Somaliand such as widhwidh or pro puntland such as xudun and taleex Proclaiming their allegiance to the new state. Yet here are those silly naysayers with their none sense about division. We have witnessed the reaction in buhoodle when their native son spoke against the leaders of khaatumo yet give the khaatumo president who hails from ceerigabo district the welcome we have all witnessed. Yet here are those silly naysayers with their nonsense about division. It is also obvious that those silly naysayers rather than praise what it is a sound footing, that they paint the structure of the new state as weakness when it's obvious that's it speaks to the ingenuity of the designers. Khaatumo has one president, a position that will rotate among three execatives that were elected. All in all, we shall see what is to become of this state but my message to all the prophets of doom here would be careful. Tell a lie long enough and you will believe it your selfs. The stench of your dishonesty can be sensed miles away.

I think that when Ngonge criticizes Khatuumo supporters as less than forthcoming - he is not completely wrong. What you've said here about division and a few ppl etc is what has been said for a very long time. The point of Khatuumo was to bridge these divisions and make concrete changes in the political landscape. I understand that is going to take time but so far the omens are not all that positive. So long as the will of the people can be over ridden so easily by a few men - and this is the key - there is no plan by the Khatuumo leadership to effectively neuter them then the fingerpointing should be more directed inward than outward.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Please enlighten us what khaatumo can do about a man sitting in hargeisa ang garowe? Should khaatumo go to war with both sland and pland? Calool uu shaqeysteyaal intat godaha gashateen bat leydiheen wax ka sameeya, orda ethenku Iska so saara kabacdi rer khaatumo wax ka sameeya daha.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^^^Naxar what about ciidamada oo boqolaal gaadhaya oo ku kala jira Somaliland iyo mamuul beleedka garowe.

[xiinfaniin]

Political prostitutes exist in every region and clan. Since the fall of Somali government there was no government formed for Somalia that did not comprise politicians from Somaliland region. Yet we understand the political convictions of those politicians are not reflective of the prevalent political direction of the said region.

 

Arguing the sheer existence of Xaabsade and his militia or any disgruntled politician for that matter is a reflection of a unique division with the Khatumo folks is transparently weak argument ---facts on the ground contradicts it.

[NASSIR]

This is what Xiinfaniin said couple of years ago

 

 

Whether Somaliland loses or wins as a result of

Maakhir state

coming into the political equation of the northeast region is clearly an afterthought of sort. A more germane point is that

Puntland’s status as a regional state diminishes as a direct consequence of Maakhir’s formation.

What’s even more interesting and quite naïve at that is the argument I am hearing about the viability of this newly created state being rested on the success of the old man’s project, the tfg. Of course this development is quite negative, and can’t be gowned as a positive when it comes to Puntland’s feasibility as a counter weight to Somaliland’s influence in the region. It marks a new dawn for creating mini tribal enclaves and deepening political fragmentation in Puntland. Let’s face it: Maakhir state, if it comes to fruition, is a flake of Puntland’s crumbling house.

If it succeeds, it would thrive and grow lofty on top of Puntland’s graveyards,

and it would represent the defeat and the political failure of Puntland, not its success adeer. Starting positive threads on this is a poor political gambit haddaba. So let’s put that to rest

[NASSIR]

Revisit the old discussion here

http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/33428-Why-the-Makhir-project-is-positive

[xiinfaniin]

Oodweyne,

 

I am afraid that you and I do not see eye to eye on Xaabsade's representation on the Khatumo region. To me he is political prostitute, to you he is a useful i-di0t that serves temporary purpose

 

Nasir,

 

I am not sure where your confusion is coming from, but this thread is about Khatumo, and not an imaginary state called Maakhir , or other web based admins such as Raascasary , and the so called Western Mudug

[ElPunto]

Naxar Nugaaleed;783604 wrote:

Please enlighten us what khaatumo can do about a man sitting in hargeisa ang garowe? Should khaatumo go to war with both sland and pland? Calool uu shaqeysteyaal intat godaha gashateen bat leydiheen wax ka sameeya, orda ethenku Iska so saara kabacdi rer khaatumo wax ka sameeya daha.

That is a question for you to explore not others. Shouldn't there be thinking/planning/strategizing about sidelining Xaabsade and his militia and regaining Las Anod? If there is - that is good. The point remains that the Khatuumo leadership has to turn the will of the masses at Taleex into concrete political reality - otherwise it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

 

Your other point that people shouldn't pay your political prostitutes is moot. If you didn't have them in the first place no one would 'godaha gashateen'. At the very least you have to be the loudest voice denouncing your political prostitutes.

 

 

Political prostitutes exist in every region and clan. Since the fall of Somali government there was no government formed for Somalia that did not comprise politicians from Somaliland region. Yet we understand the political convictions of those politicians are not reflective of the prevalent political direction of the said region.

 

Arguing the sheer existence of Xaabsade and his militia or any disgruntled politician for that matter is a reflection of a unique division with the Khatumo folks is transparently weak argument ---facts on the ground contradicts it.

 

There is the reflection of the people's will and then there is the reality on the ground. One man and his militia control the capital of Khatuumo and no amount of the people's will has budged him upto now. This reality is not commonplace in Somalia today - where a community has spoken unanimously and a few have thwarted that voice completely. The Khatuumo leadership has an opportunity to do some self reflection and come up with some way of sidelining these prostitutes. Barring that - this project is not going to go far.

 

Clearly this isn't a done deal and the agressive actions of Somaliland in Buhoodle are but one part of a pattern. Unless the larger question is addressed - and SSC has its best opportunity to do so given the overwhelming support for Khatuumo - Ngonge and others will have arguments that are at best half right.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Two things, ElPunto.

 

You are right, acknowledgment of the historic political divisions that caused the switch of Lasanod in the first place is needed from the proponents of Khatumo State. I also agree they need to devise practical strategy to sideline those sawing the division from within.

 

But arguing, as some are doing here, that any disgruntled politician and his few dozen militia that crosses the political divide over to Somaliland is a reflection of Khatumo State's political cohesiveness is a bogus one. Although Haabsade was one of the major factors in the fall of Lasanod, today the militia muscle that abuses the city is not his. It is Somaliland militia that holds the city and defends it. Practically, Haabsade has a propaganda value---he does not has fighting force or militia that defends the separatist cause.

 

Taleex, Buuhoodle, WidhWidh, Xudun and Boocame are in Khatumo hands, and the new admin has a solid support in each of those cities. Lasanod is in Somalialnd hands. If Haabsade defects today, there is nothing he can do about the status of the city. But Khatumo can do something, and it will, we are told

[xiinfaniin]

Oodweyne;783629 wrote:

Xiiny

,...

:D

 

I see you have decided to play the fool or at any rate deaf in here. Well, I suppose, when from one's end there is no argument worthy of the tea others will be paying in-order to listen to your take of things, then, what better way to deflect things than to start using

"sign language"

(at least metaphorically) , so that one could indicate to others that one is not understanding what was been said in here, indeed...

:D

 

In other words, that you hide behind what Haabsade is, whilst, given a wide-berth to the argument that is inherent with other's assertion, which is, that, of why if things are as you say they are, then, we don't observed the phenomena of some hired-goon of TFG ruling a scintilla of a land in Somaliland; could well be understandable under the circumstances...

 

After all, when all else, fails, then, there is always, that never disappointing straw man, that could be to hand in here. Isn't, my friend?

You have a point when you say Somaliland politicians that assume cabinets posts in TFG have no influence on the territory they claim they represent. The thing is (and i know you like to ignore this), Qaybe was from Buuhoodle and he once assumed one of the highest post in your admin , becoming the speaker of Somaliland parliament at some point. Yet we know Buuhoodle has never been in Somaliland column. Just like our current Defense Minister, he was a politician who got hired by his friends . But the problem is you don't see or never saw him that way. You want us to believe simply because you employ a guy with a dozen armed militia, that your admin is legit in those lands. And the way to prove it in your collective separatist lot's mind is to send marauding militia high on Qat to some towns, harass the locals and disrupt the peace in their lands, and say we are in control, just like the story of Widhwidh few months back.

 

You never realized similar approach would've easily worked against you. I guess you will find out soon, for I know something, Oodka

[ElPunto]

^Agreed for the most part. Hopefully things will progress properly to reflect the people's will.

 

I will quibble with this: 'any disgruntled politician and his few dozen militia that crosses the political divide over to Somaliland is a reflection of Khatumo State's political cohesiveness is a bogus one.'

 

In the naked Somali context - political cohesiveness doesn't matter much. Territory does and Xaabsade has brought over rather valuable real estate indeed.

[xiinfaniin]

ElPunt wrote:

 

In the naked Somali context - political cohesiveness doesn't matter much. Territory does and Xaabsade has brought over rather valuable real estate indeed.

 

Absolutely. And Khatumo needs to revise that net gain , and bring the city back into people's hands.

[Taleexi]

Rest assured, Khaatumo leadership acknowledges what at stake in here.

[bilan]

Khaatumo shalay dhalataye bal cagaha u dhiga marka hore, had they not wasted so much time for waiting Faroole, I think LA would’ve been in their hands now.