Quran challenges Atheists!

[sharma-arke451]

xabad;951049 wrote:

I'd rather critique the current situation around the world. Ask yourself this,

which faith

is behind the incessant violence & troubles around the world

?

terrorists outrages

, endless bombings,

abductions

,

vicious persecution of other faiths

,

degradation of women,

etc the list is endless..

no single faith is responsible for the violence and trouble around the world, and to claim that, is utter non sense and being biased, because each and every part of the world which has violence and trouble, has a specific reason for the cause and that disproves your claim to blame squarely on Islam. and to generalize that cause is a flaw and a primitive idea. for example the killing in Myanmar, the israel occupation, the Chinese Uyghurs Muslims, the American invasion in Iraq, the violence in Mexico, etc etc . these examples show the opposite of your claim.

 

terror outrages it depends on who does it. if it is an American drone, it is an American terror outrage, if it is zetas drug cartel in Mexico terrorizing villages and towns, it is zetas cartel, if it is Buddhists in Myanmar killing innocent villagers and destroying their homes, budhists are to blame, if it is Al-shabab fighting Burundians and Ugandans in Mogadishu, or even killing an innocent life, its Al-shabab, and so on and so forth,,,

 

about abductions, Well over 200 cases of parental child abduction cases occur each day in the United States. where is Islam in that?

 

by fact, Islam is the single most persecuted faith on earth. look around the world and tell me, the number of Muslim countries invaded? and you blame the victim for persecuting? what an irony.... Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Myanmar, china uyghurs, Chechnya, Bosnia, Mali, Palestine etc etc

 

degradation of women means enslaving women, and the west is a champion in this. look around and see the nudity, the old age houses,the prostitution, the rape cases, the late night casinos and shopping women in showrooms, the porn industry, the playboy, las Vegas, the girlfriend etc etc, if this is not degradation, i don't know what will.

[DoctorKenney]

Sharmarke, I don't think there's any use reasoning with him on this basis. He knows he's doing nothing but repeating old Fox-News quotes. We've heard this crap for the last 10 years, no surprises there.

 

He's forgetting the fact that Muslims have had a long and rich history, and that we weren't always like this. We weren't always in the poor and powerless state we're in today. He's forgetting the prosperous and booming years of the Abbasid and Ottoman Caliphates, the Muslim Caliphate in Cordoba with its thousands of libraries, hospitals and universities.

 

Xabad isn't aware of these things. His knowledge on world history only reaches back 10 years. :cool:

[DoctorKenney]

Apophis;951345 wrote:

I used to believe religion was "the root of all evil" but that is not true. People are the root of all evil. People will use all sorts of ideologies to justify their evil.

For the 1st time ever, I actually agree with Apophis. It doesn't matter if they call themselves Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Marxist, Capitalist, Democrat, Republican.

 

People are the problem, and ironically they are also the solution.

 

"If Allah had not repelled some men with others, the Earth would have surely become corrupt" (Quran 2:251)

[xabad]

sharma-arke451;951304 wrote:

no single faith is responsible for the violence and trouble around the world, and to claim that, is utter non sense and being biased, because each and every part of the world which has violence and trouble, has a specific reason for the cause and that disproves your claim to blame squarely on Islam. and to generalize that cause is a flaw and a primitive idea. for example the killing in Myanmar, the israel occupation, the Chinese Uyghurs Muslims, the American invasion in Iraq, the violence in Mexico, etc etc . these examples show the opposite of your claim.

Yes i repeat one single faith uses violence as a tool today with minor exceptions of course ( Burmese & Sri Lankan Buddhists recently ) - but they are an aberration and a tiny speck in a sea of Islamist outrages documented and undocumented. Muslims almost always never get on with their neighbors, they are belligerent and supremacist. why ?? because their religion enjoins them explicitly to hate and fight other faiths, which is not a recipe for co-coexistence. No other religion, on this earth is like Islam in this regard. i challenge you on this

 

sharma-arke451;951304 wrote:

terror outrages it depends on who does it. if it is an American drone, it is an American terror outrage, if it is zetas drug cartel in Mexico terrorizing villages and towns, it is zetas cartel, if it is Buddhists in Myanmar killing innocent villagers and destroying their homes, budhists are to blame, if it is Al-shabab fighting Burundians and Ugandans in Mogadishu, or even killing an innocent life, its Al-shabab, and so on and so forth,,,

 

about abductions, Well over 200 cases of parental child abduction cases occur each day in the United States. where is Islam in that?

When you have no cover, obfuscate and try to play dumb . These people don't abduct children in the name of religion. We are talking about persecuting and killing people in the name of your religion.

 

sharma-arke451;951304 wrote:

by fact, Islam is the single most persecuted faith on earth. look around the world and tell me, the number of Muslim countries invaded? and you blame the victim for persecuting? what an irony.... Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Myanmar, china uyghurs, Chechnya, Bosnia, Mali, Palestine etc etc

Muslims should not blame anyone but themselves, they have always sown & continue to sow trouble, so its no surprise they are being put in their place.

 

sharma-arke451;951304 wrote:

degradation of women means enslaving women, and the west is a champion in this. look around and see the nudity, the old age houses,the prostitution, the rape cases, the late night casinos and shopping women in showrooms, the porn industry, the playboy, las Vegas, the girlfriend etc etc, if this is not degradation, i don't know what will.

LMAO, the typical retort of Islamic misogynists, sxb, you can't deny what everyone around the world knows, ISLAM = anti-woman.

[xabad]

DoctorKenney;951342 wrote:

Sharmarke, I don't think there's any use reasoning with him on this basis. He knows he's doing nothing but repeating old Fox-News quotes. We've heard this crap for the last 10 years, no surprises there.

I never watch nor like FOX News. so come back with something better.

 

DoctorKenney;951342 wrote:

He's forgetting the fact that Muslims have had a

long and rich history,

and that we weren't always like this

. We weren't always in the poor and powerless state we're in today. He's forgetting the prosperous and booming years of the Abbasid and Ottoman Caliphates, the Muslim Caliphate in Cordoba with its thousands of libraries, hospitals and universities.

Xabad isn't aware of these things. His knowledge on world history only reaches back 10 years. :cool:

its utterly pretentious, goofy and frankly embarrassing for you a black man in africa to claim the civilizations of Arabs and Berbers in the past. i can't think of any think dumber runti. the gall, its like a kenyan catholic feeling sublimated at the achievements of renaissance era Italians. BONKERS

[DoctorKenney]

You're missing the entire point, if you had any intelligence, I'm just countering your claim that Muslims are incapable of creating a civilization, so I gave you examples in the past to prove you wrong. I have given you specific examples where Muslims have set up civilizations more advanced than any at the time. Whether I'm an African Muslim or an Indonesian Muslim is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

The fact that this went over your head is shocking to me. Warya, ha igu mashqulin

[xabad]

DoctorKenney;951373 wrote:

You're missing the entire point, if you had

any

intelligence, I'm just countering your claim that Muslims are incapable of creating a civilization, so I gave you examples in the past to prove you wrong. I have given you specific examples where Muslims have set up civilizations more advanced than any at the time. Whether I'm an African Muslim or an Indonesian Muslim is irrelevant to this discussion.

War, I'm repeating to you again as a black man you can't claim Arab achievements in the past, you should be ashamed. i don't believe they had any civilization anyway, they had harems and eunuchs and lots of slaves, the few scientific breakthroughs were by rationalists mostly non Arabs who hid their beliefs, the rest was translations of Greek works. Ha igu mashqulin kulaha, what a typical teenage girl talk.

[sharma-arke451]

xabad;951049 wrote:

societies that follow this religion are always

violent,

backward

, obscurantist,

intolerant

, fatalistic and have a " us vs them " mentality wherever they are.

they

can't get along with peoples of other faiths ever

, even when their

in other people's lands

they try to foist their

retrograde way of life

on other societies who are

more

civilized

than them

.

there is more to resource in violence than religion (Islam), only if you know the geopolitics of our current world. leave alone Islam, even the bloodshed in the name of religion is minute compared to the one shed in the name of scrambling for resources, in other words ECONOMICS.

 

to brand Muslims as ''backward'', it depends on where your logic compass lies. and this, is a matter of perception and taste. no wonder, your backward is the forward for others. if ''backward'' is anonymous with chastity, respect for humanity, justice, all good in your books, so be it.

 

intolerant is an adjectives that describes the inability to withstand the religion,culture,race etc of someone/other people. then what do we call the burning of the Qur'an in the USA? the ban of niqab in France? the insulting cartoons and videos? the ground zero mosque outrage? the Myanmar Buddhist killing of Muslims? the to name a few,,,,,islamophobia

 

''they'' in your phrase is used out of proportion. because there is difference between Islam and Muslims, the former is the religion and the latter the person who believes in Islam.

 

civilization is subjective and there is no one way about it. what forms the basics of the civilization of some people, may be a taboo in some other civilization. so the ''more civilized'' is neither here nor there. and mark you, ethics and morality is different from civilization, if you are confusing the two, which i suspect.

 

@apophis you have a point there.

[DoctorKenney]

xabad;951383 wrote:

War, I'm repeating to you again as a black man you can't claim Arab achievements in the past, you should be ashamed. i don't believe they had any civilization anyway, they had harems and eunuchs and lots of slaves, the few scientific breakthroughs were by rationalists mostly non Arabs who hid their beliefs, the rest was translations of Greek works. Ha igu mashqulin kulaha, what a typical teenage girl talk.

Okay, let me break it down to you cause you seem to be totally incapable of understanding anything:

 

1. You made the claim that Muslim societies are backward, fatalistic, and generally incapable of making a positive contribution to the world. You also implied that Muslims can't even form an advanced civilization.

 

2. I reference the Ottoman Civilization (Turkish) as well as the Abbasid Civilization (Arab) as well as the Cordoba Civilization (Spain), who were ALL Muslim, and who were ALL advanced civilizations. The first 1000 years of Islam had seen the rise of our greatest scientific scholars, universities, and research centres. RIGHT NOW, the Islamic world is very poor and powerless, but this is the exception, not the rule. For most of Islamic history, we were doing very well for ourselves.

 

3. You respond saying "You are a Somali man, you have no right to claim the achievements of the Arabs and Turks. But that is totally irrelevant, as you made the claim that MUSLIMS can't form a great civilization, and this has NOTHING with me being Somali.

 

If you can't understand how dumb you sound, then what is the use of discussing this with you.

 

And as for us being "backward", why don't you come and visit my city, where half of the African-American women are carrying children and they don't know who the father is. Why don't you come to some of the American cities, where kids actually shoot strangers just to get a reputation. You wanna talk about "backwards".

 

We Muslims are poor, but we will never be backwards. Don't ever assume that being technologically advanced automatically makes you more "civilized".

[DoctorKenney]

Sharmarke, I suggest you don't waste your time with this B.S.

 

We already know where this man's thoughts lie. I could show him 20 hours of film documentary heralding the great Islamic civilizations of the past, but in his mind he would still believe that Muslims haven't made any contributions to human civilization.

 

If he were interested in finding out the truth, I could understand that. But he's speaking purely out of hate, he's outright denying the achievements of past Muslim civilizations, and his words are no different than people such as Robert Spencer and Sam Harris.

 

There is no use in being defensive to xabad. Millions of Muslims are being suppressed, invaded and exploited but he has the nerve to over-look these and claim we are the problem. The nerve of him

[DoctorKenney]

And 1 more point, China is one of the greatest civilizations in human history. Their ancient civilizations were unsurpassed and they had some of the greatest rulers, scientists, and intellectuals in the world.

 

But for a brief period of time (1900's-1990's), China was a poor, "backward", uncivilized nation. Today, that's quickly changing and China is growing extremely fast and should be the world's largest economy within a few years.

 

They had their ups, and they had their downs. Now imagine a Chinese man living in the 1940's....claiming that Chinese people are all backward and that China has no history to be proud of, etc. Imagine how ridiculous he would sound saying that.

 

The same can be said for the Muslim Ummah. We had our ups, and we had our downs. Right now, we're at a low point in our history. We are powerless and poor today. But this will certainly change. I don't know how xabad is incapable of seeing this

[Coofle]

DoctorKenney;951675 wrote:

And 1 more point, China is one of the greatest civilizations in human history. Their ancient civilizations were unsurpassed and they had some of the greatest rulers, scientists, and intellectuals in the world.

 

But for a brief period of time (1900's-1990's), China was a poor, "backward", uncivilized nation. Today, that's quickly changing and China is growing extremely fast and should be the world's largest economy within a few years.

 

They had their ups, and they had their downs. Now imagine a Chinese man living in the 1940's....claiming that Chinese people are all backward and that China has no history to be proud of, etc. Imagine how ridiculous he would sound saying that.

 

The same can be said for the Muslim Ummah. We had our ups, and we had our downs. Right now, we're at a low point in our history. We are powerless and poor

today

. But this will certainly change. I don't know how xabad is incapable of seeing this

On the long run, rapid Chinese development and rise as a world dominant super power is not beneficial to Muslims, For that China is an non-religious and frankly secular.

[xabad]

Yes, Muslims can't form modern civilization as we currently know it, that is because freedom of conscience, freedom of expression, equality before the law, gender equality, etc are absent, this is the context in which i used the word. civilization is not about conquering lands like Andalus by sword and enslaving peoples and using their women in harems. No one buys your claim that islam was ever prodigious producer of scientific knowledge at one time either, even the few tangible scientific advances were by atheist Persians as i said before. the rest of your reply about african americans and whatever is irrelevant and off topic.

[Maaddeey]

^^ Have you ever came across, the famous saying of Omar (Ameerul Mu'mineen): Akhta'a Omar, wa asaabat imra'ah? (Omar is wrong and the woman is right). The problem with you and others who were Muslims in their yester-years is they don't know much about Islam and how the prophet and Sahabas acted, then you emphasize only on the mistakes Muslims of today do.

 

My only talo is: 'waryaa, wax baro, duf ku bexe'

[xabad]

Maaddeey;952095 wrote:

My only talo is: '

waryaa, wax baro

, duf ku bexe'

Much of Islam is extremely unsavory and goes against basic human dignity and decency. check the news any day for confirmation. i came across a harrowing story today of an Afghan 8 yr old girl who was sold off into marriage to a Mullah in his late 50's and bled to death on the wedding night. Horrific, but it's fully permissible in the Islamic sharia system, in fact its sunna coz the prophet did it. Slavery is also permitted in Islam and had it not been for western dominance, you bet the practice would still be widespread in Darul Islam.