Quran challenges Atheists!

[Boondheere]

Maaddeey;786238 wrote:

Quran talks in details about Astrology, Embryology, Xiddigaha, how rain is formed, mountains, oceans and many other things.

 

Boondheere, as you mentioned in the other thread Allah talked about DhulQarnain and how he traveled around the world , that contradicts your earlier claim that Quran only talks about the Arabia desert, I'lll -IA- post all the above one by one, watch this space!.

 

what i meant of this verse about dulqairnay was the scientifical error of the vers.

 

about Dulqarnain according the Quran he went were the sun setts down and he found the Sun sitting in Muddy spring. this means dulqarnayn wuxuu tagay halka ay qoraxda ku dhacdo wuxuuna arkay qaraxda oo dhx fadhida meeel biyo fadhiisad ah oo dhiiqo ah.

 

sxb this is a big scientifical error, first the sun does not setts down. qoraxda ma dhacdo. its just the rotation of the planet which makes the sun to disappear from the land your living in but the other parts of the earth the sun is still upp .

 

the scientifical error?

 

first the sun is biger 333,000 times than Earth.

 

the distance between earth and the sun is 93 million miles.

 

the problem of this verse is the ancient people waxay u maleeyn jireen qoraxda markii ay dhacdo maqribtkii inay qoraxda meel biyo fadhiyaan ay fadhiisato. ka dibna subaxdii ay soo baxdo. dadkii hore ma aysan ogeeyn inay qorax aysan dhicin oo mar waliba ay cirka taagan tahay. dhibaatada aayadan waa dhulka saxaraha ah galabtii marka ay qoraxda dhaceyso waxay u eg tahay inay wirwirka qoraxda awgeed inay meel biyo fadhiyaan ku dhaceyso qoraxda. laakiin sida aan ku iri waa big scientifical error . wirkirka biyaha u eg oo marka qoraxda oo sii dhaceyso la moodo meel biyo fadhiyaan inay ku sii galayso markii ay arkeen ayey dadkii noolaaa 7th century arabia markaa ayey moodeen qoraxda inay ku dhacdo meel muddy spring ama meel biyo fadhiyaan coows ka baxa.

[Maaddeey]

^here's your answer!, wax aadan aqoon u lahayn ha gelin 'Baraadar'

 

 

[Boondheere]

maaddeey of course this sheikhs is 21 century person and he will not admit what quran really says. but read quran tafsiir from ancient Islamic Scholars Such as AL Tabari and ibn Abaas and read how they explaine Dulqarnain how he discovered the sun sutting on muddy spring. even al Tabari goes far and says Dulqarnain is a Alexander the great.

 

in 21 century sheikh will not admit this because its a suicide admitting the scientifical error of the quran.

 

i have hadiith Bukhaari which explaines the sun sittings

 

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421

Sahih Bukhari Hadiths: Abzur Ghifari (ra) narrated: one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) asked me, “Abzar do you know after setting where does Sun go?” I replied, I do not know, only Allah’s apostle can say better. Then Prophet (SA) replied, “After setting, the sun remains prostrated under Allah’s Aro’sh and waits for Allah’s command for rising again in the East. Day will come when sun will not get permission to rise again and Qeyamot will fall upon Earth

[N.O.R.F]

eDIT

[N.O.R.F]

Garnaqsi;785448 wrote:

Thereby committing a textbook example of a

straw man

. That's exactly what I've been trying to explain to him.

Heh.

 

Scenario 1

One CHOOSES to disbelieve (in God, his rewards AND his punishments).

 

Scenario 2

One CHOOSES to believe (in God, his rewards AND his punishments).

 

In both the above scenarios, a CHOICE is made and therefore nothing is being forced on anyone.

Now, and pay attention here, how can one be forced into anything, if he/she CHOOSES to BELIEVE in it in the first place? It doesn’t make sense. On one hand you’re saying there should be freedom of choice and on the other (when one of them exercises that freedom), you say they’re being forced into it thereby making YOUR claim contradictory and not the Ayaat.

 

Wax fahan

[Maaddeey]

Boondheere, I don't think Al Imaam Al Tabari said Dhul Qarnain is Alexandar the great, but other Mufassireen thought so, but Al Mufassir al Kabeer Imaad Ibn Katheer fiercely refuted it, waana iska caddahay!, but I don't know what is that to do with the sunset?. Its only a historical error!.

 

The Bukhari hadeeth and Sciense don't contradict, the sun prostates while its on its movement, as Ibn Katheer explained in his wonderful historical Book (Bidayah wa nihaayah), I recommend you read it.

[Boondheere]

it's obvious that religious scriptures such as quran or any other scripture and science has nothing to do with each other.

 

its clear that quran says dulqarnain went the sittings of the sun and found the sun sitting on spring of murky water. its just one of those things which makes quran and modern sceince far from eachother.

 

the hadiith above, you can see clearly that the narrator of the hadiith ABZAR said " one day the prophet ask me" abzar do you know where sun goes after it setts down! and abzar replied No yaa raa rasuulu allah. and rasuul answered

 

the sun remains prostrated under Allah’s Aro’sh and waits for Allah’s command for rising again

qoraxda waxay jiifataa ama hoosta ka gashaa carshiga allah qoraxda halkaa ayey ku sugtaa ilaa allah ku amro inay dib u kacdo .

you see sxb first if prophet mohamed knew what we all know today whichs the sun never setts down. it just disappears from the land your living because of rotation of the planet like if arabia the sun setts down maqrib, in the same minute the sun is upp on the sky in North america. so why prophet peace upon him did told azar about that sun never setts down !??

 

sxb about scholars, Ibn Ishaq the man who wrote siiratul rasuul" the life of prophe, here what he said about dulqarneyn how reached the place where the sun sets.

 

Dhu’l-Qarnayn before me was a Muslim

Conquered kings thronged his court,

East and west he ruled, yet he sought

Knowledge true from a learned sage.

HE SAW WHERE THE SUN SINKS FROM VIEW

IN A POOL OF MUD AND FETID SLIME.

Before him Bilqis my father’s sister

Rule them until the hoopoe came to her.)

marka sxb definitely quran cannot challenge a atheist person believes because most of scriptures it in the eyes of athiest its just fairytale stories which has nothing to do with reality.

[sharma-arke451]

to me ''claiming'' to be an ''atheist'' is like a middle state which doesn't exist in real but a DELUSION.

 

time immemorial, people disbelieved in one and believed in another. like there are idolaters, who believe in idols, others believe in cows, and many more.,,, but never hanging.

 

it is a hard choice that is never realistic. the easiest blind game.

[Garnaqsi]

sharma-arke451;788006 wrote:

to me ''claiming'' to be an ''atheist'' is like a middle state which doesn't exist in real but a DELUSION.

time immemorial, people disbelieved in one and believed in another. like there are idolaters, who believe in idols, others believe in cows, and many more.,,, but never hanging.

it is a hard choice that is never realistic. the easiest blind game.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts.

[sharma-arke451]

Garnaqsi;788041 wrote:

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts.

at least stephen is not denying the existence of ''god'' but he is arguing for whatever he believes as ''god'' is the real god.

 

here in new delhi, india, is where some of the world's major religions are practiced. irrespective of what they believe as ''god'', they ascribe to the innate belief in the existence of a ''god'' .

the concept of ''god'' is legend and well established in the history of mankind.

 

to me, i differentiate between denial and not knowing. it is easy to guide an innocent brain, but never a denial packed brain.

 

it is easy to deny.that is why i see ''those'' who call themselves ''atheist's'' petty pretenders.

 

p.s. by the way, i never take it serious that there can be an ''atheist''

[Garnaqsi]

sharma-arke451;788081 wrote:

at least stephen is not denying the existence of ''god'' but he is arguing for whatever he believes as ''god'' is the real god.

Goodness, it looks like your reading is as bad as your writing!

 

[AYOUB]

Boondheere;786285 wrote:

maaddeey of course this *sheikhs is 21 century person and he will not admit what quran *really says. but read quran tafsiir from ancient Islamic Scholars Such as AL Tabari

You're clutching on straws buddy. If Dr Naik is *"21st Century", this is what inb Kathir said

 

 

 

 

﴿حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ﴾

](Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretic

 

 

 

 

Boondheere;785930 wrote:

and * the scenery *which the quranic verse is describing *agian its in middle east(وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ ) the word " wanakhlun its means TIMIRTA. so timirta tree in 7th century can be found only in disert of Arabia. there was no TIMIR tree in europe. or china or western western hampshire. so agian allah world is only in middle east. like there was no camel in western hampshire in 7th century. if god was speaking all humans on this planet including red indians in america in 7th century, so why allah says look how we created camels. there was no(NAKHAL) TIMIR tree or camels in papua new guinea or in America in 7th century. quran and hadiith most of times they only talk about the middle east and not other parts of the planet.

That's laughable. Surely you know better. A lot more fruits (like pomegranates, apples, grapes etc) have been mentioned in the Qur'an. *Other animals (like lion) have been mentioned in the Noble book. The camel is a special animal in more ways than one. I'm not saying it because Cabdi Gahayr (AUN) *said "Aakhiro nimaan geel lahayn, lama amaanayne". *If you followed the debate between people who believe in Creation vs neo-Darwinist evolutionists, you would aware how the unique the nerves in camels are used to challenge atheists like Richard Dawkins who claims *"indisputable evidence of the giraffe's evolution from fish".*

 

The quote below if from page is from page 9 of the article in the link below using the anatomy of the camel to counter the likes Richard Dawkins.*

 

b) *According to Dietrich Starck - one *of the leading German evolutionary*anatomists of the 20th century – the recurrent laryngeal nerves are missing in the*suborder Tylopoda (family Camelidae with camels, lamas and vicugnas), see*

Starck 1978, p. 237. However, Hans Joachim Müller, who published the results*of his careful dissections on Camelus bactrianus and Lama huanacus [guanicoe]*

in 19623, found that – although in fact, the *innerveration of the larynx by the*Nervus laryngeus inferior is exceptional4 in these animals – there still is a ramus*recurrens sinister, which arises from the vagus nerve near the heart and ‘curves*around the arch of aorta’ in order *to ascend at the latero-dorsal (and during*

further development at the more dorsal) part of the trachea, but does *not*

innervate the larynx. Müller writes (p. 161):

 

The fact that the ramus recurrens sinister does not innervate the larynx in the*Camelidae, but still takes the ascendent course of the normal recurrent laryngeal*

nerve of all the other mammal families (so much so that J. J. Willemse thought*

he had even found a *normal Nervus recurrens in a young camel

5), yet to eventually anastomose with corresponding recurrent branches of the right*

vagus to take part in the formation of a special network of nerves, *also implies*important and indispensible functions of that route. As for similar observations*on the ramus recurrens dexter, see footnote below 6. To discover*or deepen our understanding of these necessary and probably further vital functions*

will be a task of future research

http://www.weloennig.de/LaryngealNerve.pdf

 

 

 

Now back to the Quranic question posed:*

 

Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

 

*Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.

[sharma-arke451]

Garnaqsi;788584 wrote:

Goodness, it looks like your reading is as bad as your writing!

 

this time round you failed miserably. scapegoat-ism is not a forever game.

 

encourage your poor soul to enjoy the ''sweetness'' of life.

[Garnaqsi]

sharma-arke451;788705 wrote:

this time round you failed miserably. scapegoat-ism is not a forever game.

 

encourage your poor soul to enjoy the ''sweetness'' of life.

This is not about scapegoating. You have read that quote completely upside down!

[Boondheere]

AYOUB;788691 wrote:

You're clutching on straws buddy. If Dr Naik is *"21st Century", this is what inb Kathir said

 

 

 

 

﴿حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ﴾

](Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun,) means, he followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun's setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of these stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretic

 

 

 

until he reached the sitting of the sun where he found the sun sitting in a muddy spring

the verse is clear that it says the sun sitts on muddy spring. and about tafsiir.

 

 

ibn abaas and jalalayn and al tabari one of most importan quran tafsiirs all of them described how dulqarnain reached the sitting of the sun where he found the sun sitting in a muddy spring .

 

Jalalayn forexample

Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun,"- meaning WHERE THE SUN GOES DOWN.

 

"He found it set in a spring of murky water (Hama’a)"- Hama’a means a black mud and the sun’s setting in the spring is from the eye’s point of view, for the sun is larger than the earth. Zul-Qarnain found a tribe living around this spring, who were unbelievers

lets take the other tafsiir sheikh ibn khatir what he said about that verse.

 

 

 

Ibn Kathir stated:

 

Allah’s saying, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun," means that Zul-Qarnain traveled on a path until he reached the furthest point West that a person can reach on earth, which is the western part of earth

 

 

the problem of this explaining is this:-

 

there is no such a thing as an extreme east and extreme west? In fact, one can keep on going east or west until one is back at the point where one started. A flat earth would have an extreme point in all four primary directions (east, south, west, north). Our spherical earth, however, only has an extreme north and south (the poles), but not an extreme east or west (neither east pole nor west pole). This shows that not only in quran, but even the Islamic tafsiiir makers several hundred years later still had a wrong understanding of this earth. On this earth, east and west are only directions but not locations.

 

.

and about quran always talking about middle eastern Arabian scenery like food and different fruits and animals actually there are plenty of evidance that. even in Paradise(jannah) if you look close how people in paradise life going to look like it actually remainds you a lot in 7th century Arabia.

 

 

Like people of Jannah are going to have

waya thuufuna calayhim Gilmaanun ka'anahay Lu'lu'un maknuunun

Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.

 

waxaa ku dawaafaya wiilal yar yar qurux baddan oo aad boodo sidii Luulka aadna loo ilaaliyey :confused:

 

why would i need beatifull boys to serve my food. and why someone finger point to boys quruxdooda??

 

ka waran haddii aan ku oran lahaa dalxiis ayaan aaday hoteel weeyn ayaan ku dagay cuntada waxaa ii keenayey wiilal yar yar qurux baddan??

 

ka waran isla markiiba waxaa is dhihi laheeyd sick. this dude is a homo pedofile who like boys!

 

quran again explaning jannah surah 56 verse 17

 

waya thuufuuna calayhim wildaanun mukhaladuuna

waxaa ku kor wareegaya(dadka janada) wiilal yar yar oo aan duqoobayn waligood":mad:

 

agian quran surah 76 verse 19

There will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them [as beautiful as] scattered pearls.

 

why someone needs to be told youngs boys who look dahab iyo luul qurux darteed ayaa cuntada kuu keenaya. .

 

of course in 7th century it was common in arabia and greek and rome people enjoy wine and young boys and lot of females.

 

so you see even in jannah is 7th century arabian fantacy.