Quran challenges Atheists!

[Garnaqsi]

Maaddeey;784207 wrote:

^You don't believe in God, but you talk about punishment and eternal live as you believe in it?

Hey, we are not talking about me and what I might or might not believe, okay? I was merely arguing that the remark of the Koran saying one is free to believe or not to believe is not meaningful because there is a punishment associated with the second choice.

[N.O.R.F]

^I’m still not getting you. You seem to be saying people are afraid to disbelieve because there is a fear of being punished. To me, you’re inadvertently saying those people still believe (because they fear punishment from God if they disbelieve). If one chooses to disbelieve, then, obviously, he/she disbelieves in that punishment. I don’t quite see where this khasab you claim sits.

 

On your other post, you’re right in that ignorance was abundant in the time of the Prophet (PBUH). People buried their new born girls alive before Islam. Their only ‘modus ponens’ was their common sense. The Quran, which was revealed to them first hand, dealt with matters of belief, law, politics, rituals, spirituality, and economics in an entirely new way. This made sense to them. What they heard was, to them, a just way of dealing with everyday issues and situations. This resulted in a better life, established a culture of justice and mutual corporation unheard of before Islam.

 

Today, there will be many new Muslims. Many of them reverts from other faiths and many atheists. What will there ‘modus ponens’ be?

[Garnaqsi]

N.O.R.F;784399 wrote:

You seem to be saying people are afraid to disbelieve because there is a fear of being punished. To me, you’re inadvertently saying those people still believe (because they fear punishment from God if they disbelieve).

This is bizarre, to be honest! I've no idea how you could possibly infer that from what I've said.

[N.O.R.F]

^Really? From what you've written, thats exactly what you're doing

 

Saying punishment is a form of deterrent and therefore diintu waa khasab doesn't make sense (for the reasons stated earlier). I don't want to dwell on it too much.

[Garnaqsi]

N.O.R.F;784545 wrote:

^Really? From what you've written, thats exactly what you're doing

 

Saying punishment is a form of deterrent and therefore diintu waa khasab doesn't make sense (for the reasons stated earlier). I don't want to dwell on it too much.

With all due respect, since the start of this argument, all you were doing was erecting a straw man. I've been more than generous with my elaborations and used illustrative analogies, all of which are now apparently lost in an intellectually lazy receiving end. Maaddeey of all people (given the nature of this thread) at least came up with an (albeit misled) example of sorts. This argument has been very much one-sided from the very beginning, so much so that it has now become quite frankly boring, so I'm going to leave it at there.

[N.O.R.F]

Heh. What? Like the kid who takes his ball home when things are not going his way? Is this an argument? I thought it was a discussion. Don't throw your toys out just yet.

 

I understood what you said. However, the reasoning/logic used is flawed. You cannot claim the threat of punishment compromises the Ayat you referred to earlier. It just doesn't make sense and is contradictory (for reasons given earlier). Analogies given have thus far failed to suggest otherwise. Did you say lazy?

 

Let me know if you wish to address why people continue to embrace Islam in large numbers as they did 1400 ago years for the same the reasons.

[Garnaqsi]

N.O.R.F;784778 wrote:

Did you say lazy?

Yes, lazy, and this last post of yours was even far more lazier than the sum of all others. You say my logic is flawed and then you cop-out with 'for reasons given earlier'. You say my analogies failed to suggest what I'm arguing yet you failed to explain how. Most of your questions were all and in content: 'Really?' 'Maxa khasab'a?' 'Heh. What?' 'Did you say lazy?' or worse! You're either just really bad at this or you're just taking the mickey. Here is some real talk: go and restate what I'm arguing in your own words and try to take them apart instead of making intellectually lazy posts like the above otherwise save us the trouble of wasting both my time and yours.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

I haven't read the whole thing but I think that misunderstanding is that garow is pointing out a counterdiction in the Quran that if master tells a servent his free but that exercising that freedom will result in eternal punishment is not much of a freedom. Norf on other hand disregards the the counterdiction but correctly points out that the threats of the master need not matter to a servent who chose to cut ties with his master. Hope that helps so that you Peaple may get back to the relevant topic of if or not the Quran really challenges atheistic logic.

[N.O.R.F]

Garnaqsi, I have already explained why/how your claim doesn’t make sense/is contradictory which YOU understood and acknowledged (your explanations only reinforced my conclusion). Others in this thread have also come to the same conclusion (and understand my point(s)). Without wanting the thread to deteriorate further and claims of intellectual laziness as a result of a bruised ego becomes the topic itself, I will carry on with the rest of discussion. I can only advise you to try and at least understand the fundamentals of belief.

 

Naxar, hear hear.

[Garnaqsi]

Naxar Nugaaleed;785174 wrote:

Norf on other hand disregards the the counterdiction but correctly points out that the threats of the master need not matter to a servent who chose to cut ties with his master

.

Thereby committing a textbook example of a straw man. That's exactly what I've been trying to explain to him.

[Maaddeey]

Please guys, Aayaddaan si fiica iila akhriya!:

 

وَفِي الأَرْضِ قِطَعٌ مُّتَجَاوِرَاتٌ وَجَنَّاتٌ مِّنْ أَعْنَابٍ وَزَرْعٌ وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ وَغَيْرُ صِنْوَانٍ يُسْقَى بِمَاء وَاحِدٍ وَنُفَضِّلُ بَعْضَهَا عَلَى بَعْضٍ فِي الأُكُلِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

 

And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!

[Garnaqsi]

Maaddeey;785627 wrote:

Please guys, Aayaddaan si fiica iila akhriya!:

 

وَفِي الأَرْضِ قِطَعٌ مُّتَجَاوِرَاتٌ وَجَنَّاتٌ مِّنْ أَعْنَابٍ وَزَرْعٌ وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ وَغَيْرُ صِنْوَانٍ يُسْقَى بِمَاء وَاحِدٍ وَنُفَضِّلُ بَعْضَهَا عَلَى بَعْضٍ فِي الأُكُلِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

 

And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!

That's the 'look at how we created camels' type of verse that Boondheere was talking about earlier!

[Maaddeey]

Ha is yeelyeelin sxb, sheeg waxa laba geed oo isku neel ku yaal oo hal biyo lagu waraabiyey ay u kala dhadhan duwanyihiin?.

[Boondheere]

Maaddeey;785627 wrote:

Please guys, Aayaddaan si fiica iila akhriya!:

 

وَفِي الأَرْضِ قِطَعٌ مُّتَجَاوِرَاتٌ وَجَنَّاتٌ مِّنْ أَعْنَابٍ وَزَرْعٌ وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ وَغَيْرُ صِنْوَانٍ يُسْقَى بِمَاء وَاحِدٍ وَنُفَضِّلُ بَعْضَهَا عَلَى بَعْضٍ فِي الأُكُلِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لَآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

 

And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!

any person who had being a farmer can observe that two fruit trees nxt to eachother watared same water can give fruits whit different taste.

and the scenery which the quranic verse is describing agian its in middle east(وَنَخِيلٌ صِنْوَانٌ ) the word " wanakhlun its means TIMIRTA. so timirta tree in 7th century can be found only in disert of Arabia. there was no TIMIR tree in europe. or china or western western hampshire. so agian allah world is only in middle east. like there was no camel in western hampshire in 7th century. if god was speaking all humans on this planet including red indians in america in 7th century, so why allah says look how we created camels. there was no(NAKHAL) TIMIR tree or camels in papua new guinea or in America in 7th century. quran and hadiith most of times they only talk about the middle east and not other parts of the planet.

 

and mr maadeey in the quran you know the verse which says dulqarneyn went qoraxda meesha ay ku dhacdo and And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness."

 

qoraxdii oo meel coows biyo fadhiyaan dhex fadhido ayuu dulqarneyn tagay. sxb in desert qoraxda marka ay dhaceyso it look like inay meel biyo fadhiyaan ku dhaceyso. and yes dulqarneyn ayaaba tagay meeshaa. miracle

[Maaddeey]

Quran talks in details about Astrology, Embryology, Xiddigaha, how rain is formed, mountains, oceans and many other things.

 

Boondheere, as you mentioned in the other thread Allah talked about DhulQarnain and how he traveled around the world , that contradicts your earlier claim that Quran only talks about the Arabia desert, I'lll -IA- post all the above one by one, watch this space!.