Maaddeey Posted February 1, 2012 وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لآمَنَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ كُلُّهُمْ جَمِيعًا أَفَأَنتَ تُكْرِهُ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَكُونُواْ مُؤْمِنِينَ Alle dadka ma qasbo, qofka ikhtiyaarkiisa ayuu wuxuu rabo ku sameeyaa: 'FAMAN SHAA'A FAL YU'MIN WAMAN SHAA'A FAL YAKFUR' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boondheere Posted February 1, 2012 madeey! horta ma ilaaheey ayaa qofka ka dhiga wuxuu doono sida ATHIEST ama muslim ama kirishtaan! islaamka wuxuu qabaa qofka intii aysan dhalan ka hor wixii ay ahaan laheeyd waa ay qoran tahay. marka qofka athiest ah ilaah ayaaba u qoray intii aysan dhalan ka hor inay athiest ahaan doonto. haddii ay sidaa tahay suaasha waa yaa qaladka leh ma qofka athiestka ah ama ilaahii aan jaanis siinin ee u qoray inay atheist noqoto before that person was even born. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 Maaddeey;783621 wrote: وَلَوْ شَاء رَبُّكَ لآمَنَ مَن فِي الأَرْضِ كُلُّهُمْ جَمِيعًا أَفَأَنتَ تُكْرِهُ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَكُونُواْ مُؤْمِنِينَ Alle dadka ma qasbo, qofka ikhtiyaarkiisa ayuu wuxuu rabo ku sameeyaa: 'FAMAN SHAA'A FAL YU'MIN WAMAN SHAA'A FAL YAKFUR' But if you go for the latter of the two given choices, you burn in Hell for eternity, so there indeed is 'qasab'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 Boondheere;783309 wrote: ilaaheey hadduu doonayo inuu cadeeyo jirtaankiisa xaqiiqdii uma baahna 7th century arabia book la yiri waa hadalka ilaaheey oo ku qoran af carabi. dadka dunida deggan only 5% ayaa ku hadla af carabi. marka ilaaheey jiritaankiisa in aan la diidin hadduu doonayo waxaa loo baahnaa live CNN oo xitaa meeshuu doono inuu si live ah u hadlo ee uu yiraahdo. " waryaada waan jiraa waad i maqleysaan anigaa idin abuuray. diinta hebel hebel kaliya waa inaad raacdaan" ilaaheey hadduu just 20 seconds uu oran lahaa intaa ilamaha aha dunidan inay jiri laheeyd athiest ama qof diidan jiritaanka ilaaheey laakiiin 7th century book af carabi ku qoran ee oranaya "LOOK HOW WE CREATED CAMELS"" ee ka hadlaya kaliya Arabia xayawaanada ku nool ee aan ka hadlin Look how we created bears. or look how we created dinosours. aniga shaqsiyan waxaan aamisanahay ilaaheey jiritaankiisa waa inuu ku cadeeya not only a arabic book. Hahaha! I haven't read anything that funny in Somali for a while. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted February 2, 2012 ^How so? If choosing the latter, it means you don't believe in heaven or hell (unless you believe in another faith). Maaddeey;782776 wrote: ^^Atheists-ka dadka Quraanka loo soo dejiyey bey ka mid yihiin!, Quraanku wuxuu ka hadlaa 'logic' fara badan, wuuna dhiirrageliyaa in 'caqli' & 'logic' la isticmaalo!. Ineysan Quraan aminsaneyn ma keeneyso inaan lagu akhrin amaba la soo hadal qaadin quraan dhan, oo Gaalada carbeed Quraanka ma aaminsaneyn weyna ku buuqi jireen markii lagu dul akhriyo saasoy tahayna lama dhihin kuwan Quraan ma aaminsanee wax kale ha loo raadiyo!. Sidaas oo kale bay ahaayeen Qawu nuux oo dhegaha ayay faraha gashan jireen markii Qawlka Alle lagu akhriyo!. Aayadaha kore ee Quraanku ma aha kuwo ka hadlaya Ghayb ama Aakhiro ee waa su'aalo caqli ah ee gaalada ku qasbaya iney mar kale fekeraan!. Raamsade, waxaan rajeynayaa in dugsi Quraan lagu geliyey, oodan gaalnimada la billaaban! The pagans/athiests of those days were prepared to contemplate on those verses (and the Sunnah of The Prophet (PBUH). Today many of them choose science and everything must be in black and white (to them). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 N.O.R.F;783750 wrote: ^How so? If choosing the latter, it means you don't believe in heaven or hell (unless you believe in another faith). Elaborate? I don't understand; it comes across as if you're asking me how it's possible for one to go for the second choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 N.O.R.F;783750 wrote: The pagans/athiests of those days were prepared to contemplate on those verses (and the Sunnah of The Prophet (PBUH). Today many of them choose science and everything must be in black and white (to them). What my good man is modestly sugarcoating is this. People at the time of the prophet were not as suitably equipped to deal with questions like that as some of today's people might be. They were basically ignorant. So much so, in fact, that they wouldn't even notice the inference which goes from the question 'who made the heavens and the earth?' to the conclusion 'God did it' violates the basic rules of modus ponens. This only says one thing about you, Maaddeey. Markaa galka seefta ka siib oo la dagaalan ninka. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted February 2, 2012 Garnaqsi;783701 wrote: But if you go for the latter of the two given choices, you burn in Hell for eternity, so there indeed is 'qasab'. Surely, the one who chooses to disbelieve, disbelieves (including the concept of heaven and hell). Maxa khasab'a? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 N.O.R.F;783769 wrote: Surely, the one who chooses to disbelieve, disbelieves (including the concept of heaven and hell). Maxa khasab'a? Yes, but he/she gets punished. That's the qasab. If I give you two choices, one of which if you choose you get punished, then there is qasab. You might choose the one with the punishment for one of several reasons -- for example, you might think I'm bluffing/lying. So that you're the atheist in this scenario. Even if the whole thing indeed is a big lie, there's still qasab because I'm trying influence your choices by fear -- and that's not even accounting for the misery of those who might actually believe that I'm telling the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
N.O.R.F Posted February 2, 2012 ^Well if you believe you will be punished for leaving the faith (due to disbelieving in God) then you still believe. i.e. If one stays in that faith out of fear of punishment then he/she still believes. Taasi khasab maaha. Mise anaa si kale wax u fahmay? Anyway, I will address your other post later on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 N.O.R.F;783779 wrote: ^Well if you believe you will be punished for leaving the faith (due to disbelieving in God) then you still believe. i.e. If one stays in that faith out of fear of punishment then he/she still believes. Taasi khasab maaha. Mise anaa si kale wax u fahmay? No, I think you're looking at the situation from the wrong angle. This is not an issue of what the person believes and its validity. It's a question whether the given choices are free in any meaningful sense. I used an illustrative analogy, which you neither addressed nor appear to have understood: if I give you two choices, one of which you get punished, then there is of course 'qasab'. Humans were made by God an offer they can't refuse, if you catch Godfather reference, and you're making it sound like as if it's free choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maaddeey Posted February 2, 2012 Boondheere, haa Alle waa qoray waxa dadka u dambeyn doona (Janno & Naar)) sida uu u qoray waxa uu Adduunka dhexdiisa ku sameeyo, sida inuu noolaado, guursado, shaqeysto, cunto raadsado, nasto; waxaasoo dhan Alle waa sii ogyahay waana sii qoray, marka maad isku halleysid taas ood 'qaladka' Alle saartid ee iska seexatid?. Garnaqsi, consider this as an example: you are in school , if you do your best and study well you'll pass otherwise you'll fail. Qofkii wanaag sameeya waa la abaalmariyaa meel kasta, Adduun & Aakhiro!. Allah is justice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boondheere Posted February 2, 2012 Maaddeey;783887 wrote: Boondheere, haa Alle waa qoray waxa dadka u dambeyn doona (Janno & Naar)) sida uu u qoray waxa uu Adduunka dhexdiisa ku sameeyo, sida inuu noolaado, guursado, shaqeysto, cunto raadsado, nasto; waxaasoo dhan Alle waa sii ogyahay waana sii qoray, marka maad isku halleysid taas ood 'qaladka' Alle saartid ee iska seexatid?. . oo Waxaad leedahaya Before i was born ayaa ilaahey siiba qoray meesha aan galayo Naar ama janno :confused: taa micnaheedu waa ilaaheey jaanis maba siinayo qofka. shaqsiga intuu uusan dhalan ayuuba leeyahay ilaaheey war midkan naarta geeya. midka ku xigana janada ayaan u qoray marka sxb qaladka qofka maba aha hadduu athiest ama Budist noqdo waayo ilaaheey jaanis maba uusan siin. forexample i was Born 1978. iam sure i did not existed 1976 so allah already before i was born or before i existed he dicided which place iam going to end up after nolosha dunida :confused: sxb if this is a true then dadka naarta galaya waxaa ka masuul ah ilaheey(god) waayo wuxuuba sameeynayey experiment ah this one send him naar this one janna, this one this one.:D and last sxb ilaaheeey in jiritaankiisa aan shaki la galinin hadduu doonayo bal maxaa hal daqiiqi ama nus daqiiqo loo arki waayy ama codkiisa kaliya si live ah loo maqli waayey? intaa haduu sameeyn lahaa ilamaha aha athiest inay jiri lahaayeen. laakiin ilaaah boook kitaab 7th century nin carab ah yiri ilaahaa ii soo dhiibay luqad ah luqadiisii hooyo af carabi ee dadka aduunka degan 95% aysan ku hadal ilaah doonaya jiritaankiisa ku xaqiijiyo intaas kaliya waa qasab in dad baddan ay diidaa ilaahaas oo ay yiraahdaan ma jiro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Garnaqsi Posted February 2, 2012 Maaddeey;783887 wrote: Garnaqsi, consider this as an example: you are in school , if you do your best and study well you'll pass otherwise you'll fail. Qofkii wanaag sameeya waa la abaalmariyaa meel kasta, Adduun & Aakhiro!. Allah is justice. This example would only work if the school would punish you by, say, locking you in a dark room and beating you for the rest of your life. If one fails one's exam, one can still go on with life and be, say, a truck driver or a bricklayer. I can't say the same about the divine situation, unfortunately. If the person happens to not believe in God, they face an eternal fire. Thus one is not free to either believe or disbelieve to meaningful degree of freedom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maaddeey Posted February 2, 2012 ^You don't believe in God, but you talk about punishment and eternal live as you believe in it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
