Puntland Rejects 4.5 The Conference Scheduled End Date Delayed

[Jacpher]

Abtigiis;767165 wrote:

wayna kaa hadaba! Pirates as spoilers, as usual.

 

Their rejection of the 4.5 is not to benefit the 0.5 clan. It is to usurp disproportinate political representation.

 

The 4.5 is not good but to amend it is not to open a pandora's box with this lame 'districts' business but to elevate it to 5 and allowing the minorities togather as one unit.

 

There is hardly any other formula that will pass without bringing issues far harder to solve than the ones the 4.5 has resulted in.

You guys are overreacting. AT is just saying without 4.5 formula, he's screwed if political power is shared based on districts pre-civil war. He doesn't like "this lame 'districts' business" because it literally puts out of the border. So no he's not arguing against this out of a moral conviction but for his own clannish reasons. But, what he doesn't realize is that PL made the opportunity avail for Somalia to come up with a better system and instead of focusing on solutions, he's pointing clannish accusations for the good of his own clan.

 

It's a good move by PL but removing the 4.5 is not enough. We need a thorough plan on how to solve the clan/land disputes which are the root cause of the never ending civil war.

[Dr_Osman]

Let me add I don't see why the mogadishu folks have an issue with what farole said. 4.5 is a disgusting system and rewards somalis based on tribal affiliation. Imagine a similar system was used in America where parliament was representated based on Race. For example imagine white americans were given 61 seats, african americans 61 seats, hispanics 61 seats and .5 for others. Thats whats occuring in Somalia and it is not democratic, its not nationalistic, its just backward and causes alot of division. Farole wants to put an end to this miserable system and create a fair system where parliament seats are given based on constituencies like any other democracy around the world.

 

I think the true colors of the mogadishu elites are showing for all somalis to see and it is sad but when history goes down it was the puntians who wanted to get rid of this 4.5 nonsense and head towards a fully fledged democracy just like when Americans go rid of that nonsense segregation system and we know who the winners are today.

 

Wake up if your nationalistic then you wouldn't support none of this 4.5 to begin with and you would see somalis as somalis not in a 4.5 vision through ina salad glasses!!!

[Ariess]

A Parlement should represent, balance and influence. So the political blocks should definetly be based on regional interest in order to enforce and accomodate cooperation between clans for the common good of their respective region and PM's are linked to their respective region. And as long as there no direct elections the clan representation should be balanced according to "equal" representation for the diffrent clans(5.0).

 

This would be a temporary allocation system that facilitates and supports the current common goal. Till direct elections can be held where seats can be allocated based on the votes.

[Som@li]

Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar;767177 wrote:

How will it be allocated without census? Will a large gobol with less population receive more allocation than a small gobol with more people? Simply, another reason it won't work.

.

Absolutely, with fair democracy, one man one vote, each region must get the number of seats based on the number of people living ithere, BUT How can you share seats on regions when one does not know how many people living in each state?

 

It is the right way, but of course not feasible now, as you have to have proper censor first, plus also monitor the movement of the population, as the population changes between states, so as the representators of that state, It is a long way ahead.

 

Many also forget that why Sodare, Cairo,and all the conference before Arte failed, Somalis could not agree on anything regarding power sharing.

 

One should not also be excited or be afraid on the concept of sharing power thru regions.Having many regions does not necessary mean more seats.

 

This conference will not yield anything, and Puntland will not able to hijack. I too like the 5.0 over 4.5.

[Duufaan]

Shirkii Garoowe Oo Galabta Lagu Kala Kacay Iyo Faroole Oo Gogoshii Laabtay ” Qosolkii Shalay Oo Qiiro Ka Danbaysay”.

Garoowe(Allssc): Wararka ka imanaya magaalada Garowe ayaa sheegaya in shirkii wadatashiga Garoowe uu hakad ku yimid isla markaana kulankii maantan lagu kala tagay kaddib markii madaxda kooxaha ka qeybgalayay shirku ay isku af-garan waayeen waxaa laga yeellayo hanaanka awood-qeybsiga ee 4.5.

 

Warar ku dhow dhow shirka oo ay Codka Shacabka SSC heshay ayaa sheegaya in Mudane Faroole ay ka biyo diideen hannaanka awood qeybsiga 4.5 oo ay ku adkeysteen in qaabka awoodda lagu qeybsanayo laga dhigo Degmo iyo Gobol, balse arrintaasi waxaa qaadacay xubnaha kale ee shirka ka qeybgalay.

 

Wixii kasoo kordha AmuurahanKalasoco Codka Shacabka SSC

 

Cismaan Qandala Allssc Garowe Somalia.

[General Duke]

4.5 is outdated and hated by everyone. So let's get deputies from every district and regions of the 18 regions of Somalia. Mogadishu alone has 16 districts. And MPs would represent districts and not clans:

Let's see how this plays out.

[Saalax]

12 regions of Somalia. MPs competing in elections would have some bad effect for some such for example in Galgadud region the H are

majority there with a minor D-population. Does that mean 4 H-MPS from Dhusamareeb, Cadaado,

Ceeldheer and Ceelbuur districts and

one 1 D-MP from

Abudwaaq district.

[Abtigiis]

General Duke;767222 wrote:

4.5 is outdated and hated by everyone. So let's get deputies from every district and regions of the 18 regions of Somalia. Mogadishu alone has 16 districts. And MPs would represent districts and not clans:

Let's see how this plays out.

18 regions? That is outdated and most somalis believe those regions were formed for the hegemony of a certain clan during the siyaad days.

 

Districts mean clans in somalia, so the clan issue will not die because we are calling it districts now.

 

Also, it will fuel a drive to have new districts everywhere, as demographic changes in the last 20 years mean there must be new ones. That is if the formula for designating an area a district is based on a cut-off number of population. If a district is anywhere with a population size of 50,000 for instance, Garowe and Galkacyo will BE districts.

[Che -Guevara]

^What's population of Galkacayo and Garowe?

[Abtigiis]

Infact, I meant those two would be districts. UNDP figures show about 94,000 for Mudug (urban) and 50,000 (for Nugaal). Small other villages are included as urban in this calculation.

 

Anyway, the real issue is that in the absence of any agreed-upon criteria (also absence of proper census), it is not possible to talk about districts in Somalia without opening new arguments and infighting among clans.

[Che -Guevara]

We need something that could be amended, 4.5 doesn't lend itself to reforms. We either acceptit in whole or do away with it.

[Carafaat]

Clan Balance(4.5/5.0) and regional representation from districts and province does not have to be exclusive. Combination or hybrid model is possible.

[The Zack]

Everyone is after their own interest. Faroole and the entire D block are for choosing the parliament based on districts and states, the rest (Sakiin, Canbe and Caalin) are for the 4.5 system. - See how these three are all on one side? It is not coincidence, they know they are ripping others off LOL.

 

Common sense tells me (and no I am not siding with one side) that the 4.5 formula is just wrong. Let's be honest, how is it fair for Bay & Bakool to get same number of MP's as Gedo, Upper Jubba, Lower Jubba, Bari, Nugaal, more than half of Mudug, Sool, Sanaag and half of Galgaduud all combined? Bal ii sheega...

 

They are not comparable both geographically and population wise.

 

Down 4.5!

[Carafaat]

The Zack;767265 wrote:

Everyone is after their own interest. Faroole and the entire D block are for choosing the parliament based on districts and states, the rest (Sakiin, Canbe and Caalin) are for the 4.5 system. - See how these three are all on one side? It is not coincidence, they know they are ripping others off LOL.

 

Common sense tells me (and no I am not siding with one side) that the 4.5 formula is just wrong. Let's be honest, how is it fair for Bay & Bakool to get same number of MP's as Gedo, Upper Jubba, Lower Jubba, Bari, Nugaal, more than half of Mudug, Sool, Sanaag and half of Galgaduud all combined? Bal ii sheega...

 

They are not comparable both geographically and population wise.

 

Down 4.5!

loool. Zack come on. Bay, Bakool, Shabelle's are much more populated then those desert provinces you mentioned. According to the last cencus made in Somalia back in the 70's.

 

http://mappery.com/maps/Somalia-Ethnic-Groups-Map.jpg

 

And lets be honoust who still controls the biggest portion of Somalia today? Al Shabaab dominated by certain clans who have been marganalized in the past. They gained a lot of self-confidence and have been governing themselves the last two decades. With or without Al Shabaab they wont give up their power so easly.

 

Zack, Jaalle's days are really over.

[Qandalawi]

^SSC alone has more population than the areas you mentioned, meeye nimankii SSC secessionist bal ujawaba idinkaa ladaganoo tiradooda yaqaanee

 

But that's not the point. The point is every Somali individual was against this 4.5 formula, in fact people were extremely angry against this formula when Puntland politicians justified their political dominance and power sharing deals via the 4.5 formula. However, now Puntland is actually opposing it and others raise suspicion that they are up to something. Well, keep the 4.5 but don't cry fool later.