Think of the Possibilities

[Carafaat]

lool@xaaji.

 

This thread is about possibilities, compromises and if there might be diffrent roads leading to the same destination, for the Somali conflict in general.

 

And wether Somalilands sovereignty can go hand in hand with Somali Unity on the worldstage? Eventhough Its not my intention to claim its the solutions but havent heard any arguments so far why it cant?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

What carafaat fails to realize is that Somalis in particularly the Koonfurians haven't talked to one another and didn't really have the chance to discuss the future of their nation and people.Before you even can discusss the impossibilities or what other political entities might bring forward the dialogue needs to be brought to a level where people can talk about every aspect in the political process that is about to shape their destiny.For those somalis who have not been keeping up with the Historical reality the past 20 years in Somalia somalis never tend to sacrifice their nation Community or clan objectives for others this is an unfamiliar concept my friends so first thing first mr carafaat awoow.

[Ace of Spadez]

Carafaat, I wish you were more practical and realistic than you`ve been thus far. You cannot have war and peace in the same instance. It is a fallacy to believe otherwise. In the same context, Somaliland and Somalia cannot co-operate on foreign policy when they do not recognize one another. The very corner stone of Somaliland`s foreign policy is built on among other things advancing the de jure recognition of the sovereignty of Somaliland. Conversely, Somalia`s current foreign policy is to combat tooth and nail the de jure recognition of Somaliland. All you have to do is read the media in Somalia regarding the trip to Jubba by Somaliland and the reaction to the latest endorsement by the erstwhile savior of Somalia Mr. Augsta Mahiga. The agendas of the two polities are diametrically opposed. The only time they can align is when this diplomatic cold war is reconciled. Until then, it is very difficult for Somaliland and Somalia to engage politically.

 

Now the question is sidee Xeegona Xeego u noqotaa, Ilkana ku nabad galaan. The only avenue left to foster co-operation of the peoples of Somaliland and Somalia is to let refugees come to Somaliland and participate in humanitarian assistance. Anything more than that and you`ve lost the plot I`m afraid. Keep in mind, Somalis irrespective of the politics of their countries, Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Somaliland, Somalia, are one people. They are kith and kin and have direct relations. There is no enmity and there is a lot of co-operation in the social and economic spheres. Trying to make the jump to political co-operation is premature. Somalia will first have to make a single administration for the likes of Gaalkacyo & Beledweyne, before it can enter into an EU style Pan Somali East African arrangement with Somaliland & Djibouti.

[Carafaat]

Ace of Spadez,

 

I know the agenda's are opposed, that there is diplomatic cold war and that it has been difficult for Somaliland and Somalia to engage politicly.But this is not something of late and has been the case for the last two decades. You say lets wait for Somalia's till it gets its act together. We have been waiting for years and this hasnt helped Somaliland either. And that is why many Somali's have become to belief that it is impossible to find any political engagement or compromise and assume that diffrent interest and ambitions are always conflicting, irreconcilable and incompatible. Which I disagree with.

 

I belief that with the right mindset, creative thinking, strategy, tact and some people's diplomacy(if direct diplomatic dialogue with TFG is not opportuun at the moment), we could end this (unnecessary) diplomatic cold war that is effecting our peoples relations, vieuws towards eachother in order to find mutually acceptable solutions for those opposing agenda's and find common ground(in the future).

 

This 'reconciliation' process will be a long process, it wont be easy with all the different political interest and sensitivities nor attainable on the short term. But still one has to take the initiative which wont win you everyone's approval. But I guess leadership isnt always about popularity.

[burahadeer]

somalilanders have seen so much abuse & at last seen the light ; they are in no mood to go back to butcher's house.If any meaningful dialogue has to take place it should be about their general security,commerce & the likes.They know it's a forgone conclusion & no one really can do anything about people's desire to be who eva they wana be.The question we ask should be why anyone need to take SL back into the fold when it proved disastrous last time.Is it some can't get ova it,is it they believe SL is getting ahead of them..jealousy?somalinimo...eh!

There neither be trust nor equality..the best we can do is cooperate on things that matter to both of us...like unhindering movement of people etc.Somalis will always cross to each otha ,inter-marry,deal business & so on...so why is it important to be under one flag that left the legacy of destruction....what if everyone better off this way?

[Carafaat]

burahadeer;767232 wrote:

somalilanders have seen so much abuse & at last seen the light ; they are in no mood to go back to butcher's house.

If any meaningful dialogue has to take place it should be about their general security,commerce & the likes

.They know it's a forgone conclusion & no one really can do anything about people's desire to be who eva they wana be.The question we ask should be why anyone need to take SL back into the fold when it proved disastrous last time.Is it some can't get ova it,is it they believe SL is getting ahead of them..jealousy?somalinimo...eh!

There neither be trust nor equality..

the best we can do is cooperate on things that matter to both of us

...like unhindering movement of people etc.Somalis will always cross to each otha ,inter-marry,deal business & so on...so why is it important to be under one flag that left the legacy of destruction....what if everyone better off this way?

Burahadeer, I think we are talking about the same thing here, dialogue on common interest. Said nothing about talking SL back or giving up its sovereignity.

[burahadeer]

Carafaat;767236 wrote:

Burahadeer, I think we are talking about the same thing here,

dialogue

on

common interest

. Said nothing about talking SL back or giving up its sovereignity.

agree but who is gona tell these guys to put aside the blue ribbon for a second & come up with logic:D

Do you think that's possible!

[Carafaat]

burahadeer;767238 wrote:

agree but who is gona tell these guys to put aside the blue ribbon for a second & come up with logic:D

Do you think that's possible!

Yes, it is possible.And I think its up to us to tell them. It may take a while though.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Carafaat somalilanders don't have time for that

[Ace of Spadez]

Carafaat, I am not against the co-operation of Somaliland, Djibouti, Somalia on any given matter. Nevertheless, Somalia would have to first recognize Somaliland’s sovereignty before there could be any political co-operation. If Somalia continues to refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of Somaliland then that is fine. Somaliland is not in any hurry to gain recognition. In fact, as I’ve said many times on this forum, non-recognition has done a great deal for Somaliland. Somaliland is learning to be self-sufficient. You just have to look at the numerous public private partnerships going on from the Dilla – Borama Road, Hargeisa-Jabuuti Road, Hargeisa-Salaxley Road, Hargeisa-Baligubadle Road, Hargeisa-Burco Road, Burco-Ceerigaabo Road. The nations of the west did not stumble on the “good governance” of their nations. They’ve spent hundreds of years to improve it. It is why you will find more justice in a western country than in a Muslim country ruled by a dictator. Somaliland has nowhere to go but up. Time is truly on its side. It’s survived economic and political crisis in its infancy and has proven to the world that it is a force to be reckoned with. Somaliland does not need to go against its principles in order to have some kind of political co-operation that is not even tenable in Somalia’s current political state. The ball in Somalia’s court to define what kind of relations it will have with Somaliland. Will it be based on hostility or on fraternal relations? So far, what has been eminating from Somalia has been nothing but hostility, yet Somaliland has shown much good will in taking Somalia’s refugees and assisting them in any way they can. The ball is in Somalia’s court.

[Carafaat]

I want Somaliland to show leadership and take matters in own hands that is what peopke expect from the leaders they have chosen. People in Somalia never had the chance nor the opportunity to pick their leaders, they dont even know what to expect from them. Therefor its to easy and not really fitting with the character of a leader to blame and wait for others.

 

I want Somaliland to lead and you want Somaliland to wait and see. That is the diffrence.

[burahadeer]

how can you lead people who want to lead you even when they in the situation they IN & still think it's divine right!