Carafaat Posted December 21, 2011 [*]Djibouti is a small tiny country, Somaliland is un-recongnized and Somalia's TFG is weak. [*]Neither of these countries have a large and strong presence or no influence on the foreign stage, foreign countries nor International organisations(UN, AU, AL, WTO, etc). Most of the time the delegates of these countries to meetings are glad that they can go somewhere and someone can refund their tickets and hotel, [*]To illustrate the matter Djibouti for example has no significant presence in most European countries, Somaliland is present with unrecongnized representative's in most EU countries and TFG is present but has no policy direction/agenda or political backing whatsoever. [*]Another illustration most UN agencies or donors are not present or have no programmes in Djibouti(while there is hugh poverty and needs), Somaliland has little influence on donors and UN angecies programmes, the TFG has also little influence on their work and most of if is not even implemented and is spend in Kenya. [*]Somali livestock is exported by Arab traders directly trough Djibouti, Somaliland and Somalia for about 40 dollars per sheep(back in 2007 it even reached 28 dollars!!!), it is sold on the Saudi market for more then 120 dollars a sheep and sometimes during Hajj prices reach 200 dollars while the livestock herders receive the same amount. They are being sold out by Arab traders against eachother to the bottem. While in a normal market situation it;s the seller who determines his selling price, not the buyer. [*]The same also goes for frankinsence myrrh and other export products. Owners of tree's sell if for less then 10 dollars to middleman, the marketprice is between 150 to 400 dollar per liter! [*]Concerning Marine resouces. Djibouti, Somaliland and Somalia have sold fishing rights to foreign companies(countries) for their internal waters. These fishing contracts are very complicated and they receive a little amount, while these (legal) companies catch much and much more then agreed, no way their officials can monitor these vessels or no what to do. In Most countries the fish has to be first weighted in the ports before any foreign vessel can leave the waters, so that authorities can control, monitor and oversee te catched amounts, fish kinds, etc. And let me tell you the Somali waters contain the more expensive fish species(tuna, lobster, etc). We are talking of legal fish catch worth hundred millions, I am not talking about the illegal fishing(taasi waa sheeko kasii dheer). [*] Then you have the whole food aid which is sold on the market throughout the whole year and throughout the region. This food aid has distorted the complete agricultural and food market of the region. For a small farmer it doenst make any economic sense to farm anymore, or larger farms with a lot of foreign investment can survive. [*]The same distortion goes for all other products. Its difficult for Djibouti, Somaliland or Somalia to have any kind of Industrial production or Trade Policy on Goods(tarrifs), if cheap dump products come through the neighbouring country. [*]Same goes for Tax Policy. How can these goverments set-tup prober tax policies or for example raise Taxe on Business or products when its not even clear which business is Djibouti, Somaliland or Somalia based or how these products came in to the country? Someone who want to avoid taxes, can use the neighbouring countries port and still get the products in to the country. [*]There are estimations of tens of thousands of Somali youth in Foreign prisons. Most of the time for just being illegal in the country and without a diplomatic voice, there is no one who can speak on bahelf of them. And in many countries throughout Africa, Asia and Middle East this means for many that they will spend a long long time in those prisons. Khadafi during his last days, has freed thousands of Somali youth from his prisons. Many where there more then a year!! These are just some of the examples and practices that I know of. There is a time for politics and a time for diplomacy. And there are many good arguments for having a diplomatic dialogue purely on the most important Trade and Foreign Affairs issue's. And af course with taking in to account the following criteria's: -This dialogue should be purely based on common trade and foreign related issue's(see list above). -It's agenda, proceedings and outcomes would have to be based on consensus. -It's absolutely necessary that its based on trilogue between Djibouti, Somalia and Somaliland. -All three countries would have to avoid media statements that would give the public wrong image on what is discussed. Therefor it would be preferable if there would be a common press conference with all three representative present.. -Most important disclosure for TFG would be af course, that they have not recongnized Somaliland as an Independant Country. And Somaliland's would always repeat that this dialogue has changes nothing on its Indepedance and seeking recongnition. etc, etc. This has to be clearly communicated to the public. -Djibouti would to facilitate the meeting, as neutral ground. -All three flags and other symbols have to be present. I can imagine that some would still say, that this could create negative effect on the public perceptions of Somaliland's case or some others would say such a move would be perceived as the TFG recongnizing Somaliland or Djibouti being sucked in to Somalia's issue's. But I think the tangible end result on these issue's would be much more important for the Somali public, then some media heissa or initial public reactions(which our people always have onmost changes). If such a dialogue can get our kids free from those cold prisons, or our people more food on the table, or more income, more real development. then I say, lets do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacaylbaro Posted December 21, 2011 Not a bad idea ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Zack Posted December 21, 2011 How does a country make an agreement with itself. Cajiib! I mean I get the Jabuuuti part but.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burahadeer Posted December 21, 2011 add that to azania state .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Qandalawi Posted December 21, 2011 Trade is understandable and it exists right now as we speak but what's with foreign relations. The Somali constitution says that any Somali born outside of the Somali republic including Kenya, Ethiopia and Dj territories has the right to live, acquire Somali documents and receive as much opportunities and rights as any Somali born in Somalia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OdaySomali Posted December 21, 2011 Puntland and Somaliland (+ perhaps Djibouti co operating) would make sense. TFG is a tool/platform, not an entity with objectives of its own. PL and SL too could use this [internationally recognised] tool/platform I suppose. Indeed PL has recently made major inroads into using this 'TFG' platform. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carafaat Posted December 21, 2011 The Zack: How does a country make an agreement with itself. Cajiib! I mean I get the Jabuuuti part but.... Qandalawi;766551 wrote: Trade is understandable and it exists right now as we speak but what's with foreign relations. The Somali constitution says that any Somali born outside of the Somali republic including Kenya, Ethiopia and Dj territories has the right to live, acquire Somali documents and receive as much opportunities and rights as any Somali born in Somalia. Lets say for example, how we should deal with UN agencies? Or in the relationship with Ethiopia? Doesnt make sense for Somali leaders to have meetings with UN agencies, Ethiopia, Kenya, etc on the same issue's, without (having dialogue)consulting first with eachother? Otherwise you face being marganalised. OdaySomali;766580 wrote: Puntland and Somaliland (+ perhaps Djibouti co operating) would make sense. TFG is a tool/platform, not an entity with objectives of its own. PL and SL too could use this [internationally recognised] tool/platform I suppose. Indeed PL has recently made major inroads into using this 'TFG' platform. Oday, call it how you wanna call it. I am talking about dialogue or consultation on equal terms based on concensus without compromising on political objective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Som@li Posted December 22, 2011 lol, funny, Putting the cart before the horse, Salaadba waqtigeeda la tukadaa, get a recognized country first. You are still part of Somalia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OdaySomali Posted December 22, 2011 The Zack;766546 wrote: How does a country make an agreement with itself. That has been and is still the million dollar question Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OdaySomali Posted December 22, 2011 Carafaat;766589 wrote: Oday, call it how you wanna call it. I am talking about dialogue or consultation on equal terms based on concensus without compromising on political objective. Good luck with that. Clearly you see the TFG for something that it is not. Both TFG and SL need changes in leadership for things to change substantially to the extent that they are able to persue and implement an agenda like that which you proposed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carafaat Posted December 22, 2011 Oday, I am very aware of that. But thinking, ideas and destination should not wait till the right man is at the steering wheel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
