Ban Khat in the UK - sign the epetition

[SayidSomal]

Home Office's Last Research - "Khat: Social harms and legislation" July 2011

Key findings

1. The review found a general lack of robust evidence on the link between khat use

and social harms.

 

2. Reported social harms associated with khat remain a concern among the UK’s

immigrant Somali community, yet beyond often contradictory anecdotal

statements, this review found no evidence to show a causal relationship between

khat and the various social harms for which its consumption is supposedly

responsible.

 

3. Inferences about khat’s social harms have largely been drawn from the

experience of the Somali population, as less research has been undertaken on

other communities who are also consumers of khat.

 

4. As well as khat, many other variables might contribute to the social problems

confronting the relevant communities, i.e. the effects of civil war, displacement,

gender relations, and problems of integration. These need to be more fully

considered in any further research.

 

5. Legislating against khat in Europe and North America has had little success in

curbing demand and has taken place with little consideration of evidence. In

those countries where the greatest evidence on khat use has been compiled (the

UK, the Netherlands and Australia), import and consumption are still permitted,

albeit under the control of a permit system in the case of Australia.

READ MORE IN HERE

[N.O.R.F]

NGONGE;765069 wrote:

^^ As I already stated on countless times in the past, I only chew on special occassions (mainly Eid and fuenrals). So the banning of Khat would make no difference to my life. Marka taa dhinac dhiga.

 

It saddens me that people of your calibre (and Norf's) are talking in such sensationalist way! I'd expect such nonsense from Alpha (and even Alpha knows he's trolling when he writes such stuff) but I really did not expect it from you (BOTH of you). Fix up.

 

First of all, without even talking about Khat in particular you both should be very wary of any calls for the "ban" of things. It is a free world and people's freedoms should not be toyed with just because someone somewhere took exception to something or other.

 

Secondly, if a call for a ban is genuine - and there are many instances where the curbing of the freedoms of some is beneficial to the lives of most - not with ancedotal evidence or feelings of those calling for a ban but with a proper, well researched argument that shows (and proves) that a ban is the best option for all.

 

Khat is a drug, it's addictive and should not be consumed by a Muslim, as you say. But none of what you or Norf presented so far is reason enough for us to blindly support you in your calls for a ban.

 

Your problem is that your both letting your hearts (as always and is is the Somali custom) rule your heads. My heart too says "ban khat". It reminds me of the three friends who committed suicide as a result of becoming marathon chewers. But I am not a hormonal teenager, I am a grown adult, I don't let my heart make my decisions for me.

 

I will only support a ban when I say a proper, well researched and well presented argument that takes EVERYTHING into account and leaves no room for doubt or worry. The Arabs have a saying which when translated to Somali would go something like: wuxu is yedhi indhakool o maray markaaso isha ka riday (which is what Norf risks doing here). Wax fahma dee.

Dee waa sidaan sheegay. You just want to waste our time.

 

You are a grown man. One who has lived in London for over what 20 years? If you’re unable to make your mind up about khat now then no research will change your mind. I believe to ask for evidence is little disingenuous and I’m not going to afford my time to it. You see the ban as knee-jerk but, going by your previous posts, you yourself acknowledge it has caused and continues to cause problems. I’m sure there is no dispute there (with or without research).

 

What you have concentrated on so far is the ramifications a ban might have on the community. You have tried to scare us into thinking bus loads of odayaal baa Belmarsh loo diri.

 

This all implies you wouldn’t be too concerned with a ban but you’re merely afraid of the unknown (and that you want to waste my time).

 

I’m glad Malika brought up the Islamic angle. Is there a better reason for banning it (thus making it illegal)? Would you still need a research document?

[SayidSomal]

Ngonge -Here is an actual research that I have been involved in - You might actually like it

[SayidSomal]

From my own research:

 

PATTERNS OF KHAT USE

• The research sample demonstrated very high

levels of regular khat use (77%) amongst Somali

men and women of all ages that are not

dissimilar to those found in similar London

boroughs such as Brent or Haringey. The

findings suggest that the Somali community in

Lambeth is significantly larger than previously

thought. It is likely that the Somali population in

the borough is at least as high as 3000+, of

whom at least 1000 are regular khat-users.

 

• Although problematic khat use has a significant

number of negative impacts on the physical and

mental health of users, it is a mistake to

attribute the multiple deprivations and barriers

to accessing services to khat use alone. In onesense, khat can be seen as a nexus for a broad

range of social exclusions that prevent both

individuals and the community more broadly from

making the most of their lives.

 

• From the data collected, it is clear Somali

women are using khat at similar levels to their

men-folk. Women in particular are very

suspicious of accessing mainstream services

around khat use, in part because of the taboo

surrounding female khat use, but more

substantially due to a perception that many

mainstream services are not as appropriate or

accessible as they might be.

[NGONGE]

N.O.R.F;765080 wrote:

Dee waa sidaan sheegay. You just want to waste our time.

 

You are a grown man. One who has lived in London for over what 20 years? If you’re unable to make your mind up about khat now then no research will change your mind. I believe to ask for evidence is little disingenuous and I’m not going to afford my time to it. You see the ban as knee-jerk but, going by your previous posts, you yourself acknowledge it has caused and continues to cause problems. I’m sure there is no dispute there (with or without research).

 

What you have concentrated on so far is the ramifications a ban might have on the community. You have tried to scare us into thinking bus loads of odayaal baa Belmarsh loo diri.

 

This all implies you wouldn’t be too concerned with a ban but you’re merely afraid of the unknown (and that you want to waste my time).

 

I’m glad Malika brought up the Islamic angle. Is there a better reason for banning it (thus making it illegal)? Would you still need a research document?

Horta ma waxba kuu dhiman, saaxb?

 

Why would I want to "waste your time" when I am asking you to make sure that what you're asking for will be good for you?

 

Norf, this is not about khat. This is about a Somali attitude that I fully despise and which you (sadly) suffer from. You are stubborn and stick to the first thought that crosses your mind (because, seemingly, it is a correct thought). But that's not how the world works waryaa. Waxanaad ogeen aya ka badan waxaad (isleedahay inaad) ogtahay.

 

Here, let me give you a recent example of difference of opinion we had in the past (and not just you); Sheikh Sharif & the great Caravan. Remember how adamant you were that this was a good thing? I don't deny that it looked like a good thing, it smelt like a good thing and (you assumed) it could not be worse than what we had at the time. What happend next saaxib?

 

I know how bad Khat is and how it effects families around me. I do not need anyone to sell that part of the argument to me (right behind you there warya). However, I do not know what happens next nor do I know what the results of a ban will be (your suppositions and guesses do not comfort me much either). Now if you gave me an EDUCATED guess I may be persuaded to leave the safety of the stinking marfash (figure of speech, Malika) and join you in your great quest for ban. Ma fahantay or are you going to hide behind the "moving goal posts" argument?

 

Sayid, I can't open pdf files, saaxib.

[SayidSomal]

Continuing...

HEALTH, WELL-BEING,

AND TREATMENT

• Respondents reported a wide range of health

impacts from khat use, including sleep disorders,

paranoia, constipation, and loss of appetite.

Although levels of direct reporting of sexual and

mental health issues was low, a number of

physical health effects reported can also be

considered as symptoms of mental ill-health. This

is likely to be, in part at least, a result of how

mental ill-health is conceptualised in Somali

culture. Stigmas around mental ill-health also

mean that somatization of mental health issues

can be a problem for treatment providers.

 

• Most Somali clients in mental health services in

Lambeth use khat to one degree or another.

There is evidence that dual diagnosis is a

recurrent issue for these patients and also for

the many users who do not access mental

health support. Mental health services are

usually only accessed at times of acute crisis,

making treatment more difficult.

 

• Aside from the still embryonic service delivery

strand of the Lambeth Khat Project, there are no

treatment services to assist problematic usersin addressing their Khat habit in the borough.

Entrenched suspicion of services, the fear of the

stigma associated with the term ‘drug’, and a

general reluctance to accept that there is a

problem are all obstacles to accessing help.

Some community members seem to actively

distrust Western medical/clinical approaches,

especially in areas like mental ill-health.

[SayidSomal]

More....

THE KHAT MARKET

• There are at least 20 marfeshes

(or khathouses) operating in the borough, with particular

clusters around Streatham and Stockwell.

Marfeshes are a dynamic business and one may

close down only to reopen at a different venue.

 

• Khat use has a significant economic impact on

users and their families. Approximately 50% of

respondents were unemployed, with a further

23% as students. The average amount spent by

each user was the equivalent of £780 per year.

One implication of this is that any harm

reduction strategy must incorporate diversionary

activities and job-finding support.

[NGONGE]

^^ Was it you who posted a picture with the words "don't chew and drive"? Do you have it?

 

p.s.

I am stepping out of this discussion now. I can't see what else I could say without having to repeat myself. All yours Norf.

[N.O.R.F]

NGONGE;765089 wrote:

Horta ma waxba kuu dhiman, saaxb?

 

Why would I want to "waste your time" when I am asking you to make sure that what you're asking for will be good for you?

 

Norf, this is not about khat. This is about a Somali attitude that I fully despise and which you (sadly) suffer from. You are stubborn and stick to the first thought that crosses your mind (because, seemingly, it is a correct thought). But that's not how the world works waryaa. Waxanaad ogeen aya ka badan waxaad (isleedahay inaad) ogtahay.

 

Here, let me give you a recent example of difference of opinion we had in the past (and not just you); Sheikh Sharif & the great Caravan. Remember how adamant you were that this was a good thing? I don't deny that it looked like a good thing, it smelt like a good thing and (you assumed) it could not be worse than what we had at the time. What happend next saaxib?

 

I know how bad Khat is and how it effects families around me. I do not need anyone to sell that part of the argument to me (right behind you there warya). However, I do not know what happens next nor do I know what the results of a ban will be (your suppositions and guesses do not comfort me much either). Now if you gave me an EDUCATED guess I may be persuaded to leave the safety of the stinking marfash (figure of speech, Malika) and join you in your great quest for ban. Ma fahantay or are you going to hide behind the "moving goal posts" argument?

 

Sayid, I can't open pdf files, saaxib.

Aar muxu xiiqay

 

Well at least we agree that Khat effects families and is bad for the community [closed].

 

Have you ever been to Canada saxib? I was offered an urbeeto for $45. An urbeeto! Not many chew and of those that do, not many (if any at all) spend time in jail (at least that what it looked like).

 

Happy now? First hand research right there

[NGONGE]

^^ No I have not been to Canada and doubt I'll ever go. Lakin hada ma waxaad i leedahay reeraha o tag oo waxaad ku tidhaahda: vote for the ban of Khat, Norf said Canada is ok?

[N.O.R.F]

Dee haa. Isn't that what you wanted?

[OdaySomali]

Send an e-mail to he Daily Mail informaing them of this petition and the rest will sort itself out

[ElPunto]

Ngonge waging a one man jihad!

 

In Canada - it is very expensive - only the older generation chews. In the UK young ppl born or mostly brought up in the UK are taking it up due to the easy availability and habituation. Where it is banned the detrimental effects of khat are experienced at a lower scale than the UK. Let's face it - khat is not cocaine. It's not instantly addictive - habitual and extended chewing does make it so. And that is only possible in circumstances where there are no restrictions to the purchase and consumption of khat. Ban it in the UK.

[Carafaat]

Norf, I understand your arguments completely. Khat is destroying our community, but its not the real cause of our problems but rather the refuge that leads to more problems. And simply banning Qat and hoping things will change will not work because like Ngonge said those you want to help will seek other alternatives. Therefor I say lets adress the real causes first and then lets look at how to reduce the abuse of Qat.

[Abu-Salman]

Agreed ElPunto, the powdered form in Canada limits its appeal unlike in my area where you would think Mafrishs are opening in every other building, full of youngsters on fresh potent leaves.

 

What those "studies" fail to mention is that khat is also a gateway for many other things, including heavy drinking, routinely used for "mirqan jabis" or against chewing hangover, to enable continuous chewing (many even alternate between those two plus cannabis etc).

 

With many women now addicted, those khat or drinking places often double as underground brothels too accross Somali communities, TB epidemy incubators and so on and so forth...