Ban Khat in the UK - sign the epetition

[NGONGE]

Where are Johnny, Nadan and the IKEA crew to come and give us their take on this topic? Norf waa qofol bila key.

 

In the meantime, and until someone provides a better argument I advise all readers to ignore this petition.

[Archdemos]

NGONGE;764905 wrote:

Khat is banned in Sweden, Norway & North America. However, we endlessly hear of people being arrested for smuggling it to those parts (more North America than the two European countries).

 

Now, pay attention NORF, since it has been banned in those countries for years (1989 in the cas of Sweden), what were the gains from these bans? Did the gloom go, the clouds clear and everyone live happily ever after? Did the numbers of those that chew decrease? Did life (overall) improve for Somalis in those parts?

As much as I loathe Khat I think NG has a point here. We risk further criminalising our young men with a ban. People don’t stop being addicts overnight just because a ban has come into effect. I think a better awareness programme coupled with tackling the real social issues surrounding unemployment and general lack of opportunities is whats needed for these people. In its own a stopgap measure like a ban won’t solve much, however it needs to be one dimension of a more holistic approach to a challenging issue like this.

[Carafaat]

Even Holland is planning to ban Khat from next year. Not because its a drugs, but Somali's dont integrate, follow education and work.

[NGONGE]

^^

I can understand the UK banning it. After all, the UK is an island nation and (in theory at least) it is easy for it to control its borders. Those Europeans countries already have open borders with their neighbours. So how would Holland ban it when it could easily be smuggled in from Belgium or Germany?

 

Think it should be limited or reduced rather than banned.

[Nin-Yaaban]

Hopefully they ban it, Khat is nothing but trouble. I signed the petition. And anyone caught with that stuff should face the consequences just like here in state side and Canada.

[Valenteenah.]

Actually it is illegal in Germany too, NG. Holland ayaa laga soo qaataa, so if they ban it too jiq ayey ku noqoneysaa the Europeans.

 

I don't know how much difference a ban will make, but I truly hate how much money is spent on this drug.

[londonlad]

There is ample and clear evidence of the detrimental effects of khat in the Somali community. You look at it from social, financial or medical point of view. Furthermore, from the healthcare point of view there are differences between these countries. For example the rate of multidrug resistant TB is more prevalent amongst the Somali population in western countries where khat is used in marfishes.

Anyhow, NG your points about the consequences of banning khat are valid, however, if we have to criminalise few people to save the majority then it’s a price worth paying.

Sign the petition so at least this problem is in the public domain.

[N.O.R.F]

Khat use among Somalis in English Cities (Home Office Report)

 

http://library.npia.police.uk/docs/hordsolr/rdsolr4705.pdf

 

49% of those interviewed wanted a ban.

[N.O.R.F]

Psychoses

 

The literature outlining the characteristics of psychoses following the use of khat describes two main types: a paranoid or schizophreniform psychosis (similar to an amphetamine-like psychosis) and a manic psychosis.

 

Schizophreniform psychosis

 

Case histories typically describe a recent increase in khat use or heavy consumption. The patients typically present with paranoid delusions, fear, a hostile perception of the environment, auditory hallucinations (frequently of a persecutory or threatening type), ideas of reference, thought alienation and a tendency to isolate themselves, or alternatively displaying aggressive behaviour towards others. If khat consumption is ceased at this time, resolution of symptoms usually occurs within a short period (3–11 days), but there is a tendency for the psychosis to recur if khat chewing is restarted.

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/9/6/456.full

[NGONGE]

Valenteenah.;764934 wrote:

Actually it is illegal in Germany too, NG. Holland ayaa laga soo qaataa, so if they ban it too jiq ayey ku noqoneysaa the Europeans.

 

I don't know how much difference a ban will make, but I truly hate how much money is spent on this drug.

How is the khat chewing in Germany going? Is the ban there making any difference? Any positives?

 

Norf, stop being hasty ninyaho and easy with the emotionals pleas. This is serious stuff.

[N.O.R.F]

^Mental illness from khat is serious saxib. Banning it would mean a reduction in mental health cases among Somali men (and maybe even some women). Thats just one example. Whether a ban criminalises anyone who continues to chew or if it stops qaad getting into the country is niether here or there.

[NGONGE]

N.O.R.F;765055 wrote:

^Mental illness from khat is serious saxib. Banning it would mean a reduction in mental health cases among Somali men (and maybe even some women). Thats just one example. Whether a ban criminalises anyone who continues to chew or if it stops qaad getting into the country is niether here or there.

It IS here and there if the ban makes no difference to the volume of khat being brought into the country ya badow. Things are bad as they are, don't make them worse with your kneejerk nonsense warya.

 

If you feel so strongly about the subject. Why don't you put the time and effort into researching it, looking into the consequences of a ban, comparing it to places where it has already took place, finding out if a ban caused a reduction in the number of users, listing the percentage and numbers of people that have become criminals as a result of such a ban (and how many were/are jailed). And, when you've done all that, look at its impact on families and if the ban was of benefit, etc.

 

To base your entire argument on the fact that Khat causes mental illness or that it's bad for people is shortsighted, silly and dangerously hasty. WAX FAHAN.

[N.O.R.F]

NGONGE;765059 wrote:

It IS here and there if the ban makes no difference to the volume of khat being brought into the country ya badow. Things are bad as they are, don't make them worse with your kneejerk nonsense warya.

 

If you feel so strongly about the subject. Why don't you put the time and effort into researching it, looking into the consequences of a ban, comparing it to places where it has already took place, finding out if a ban caused a reduction in the number of users, listing the percentage and numbers of people that have become criminals as a result of such a ban (and how many were/are jailed). And, when you've done all that, look at its impact on families and if the ban was of benefit, etc.

 

To base your entire argument on the fact that Khat causes mental illness or that it's bad for people is shortsighted, silly and dangerously hasty. WAX FAHAN.

So this is where we move goal posts

 

Of course the ban would make a difference to the volume of qaad being imported. It would reduce because importing it would become ILLEGAL. Which means customs would try and make sure none of it gets through (just like they do with all other illegal items). With less qaad on the streets consumption would be reduced therefore reducing the number of people becoming ill as a result. Whether that’s mental illness, tooth decay or malnourishment. You don’t need to research it because you KNOW qaad has left many with mental illness. You also KNOW of the problems it has caused within families. Ha iska dhigin nin aan aduunyada wax ka agoon.

 

A ban will not have huge repercussions so please put back this ‘everyone will go jail’ monster. The impact qaad is having on families now is far greater.

[Malika]

^Lol. GoodLord! Ngonge - your such an addict..lol

 

Okay, Okay..So what will be the consequences of banning Khat yaa Ngonge?

 

Is it the criminalisation of Somalis you are worried about?

 

Is it the alienation of the young and old men [tense relation with police] a concern? - as if that isn't a case already anyway.

 

Is it the fear of a formation of organised crime groups - trafficking into prohibited countries - we know that has been going on for a while.

 

Or it it that we fear that there will be a diversification of khat traders into other criminal enterprise like cocaine, cannabis..where I live, this is not unsual - you find the pushers at the mafrishes.

 

Lastly but not least - is it the price of Khat going up you worry about?.

 

Now weigh those consequences with the problems Khat has caused on the Somali community - I would say the problems it causes do outweigh the consequences.

 

ps. I believe Khat to be a drug. It is addictive and anything that alters the mind should not be consumed by a MUSLIM.

 

pss. Somalis are vulnerable people to mental disorders due to the nature of our circumstances on top of that we are also a community living with high level of deprivation - Khat then becomes just like how alcohol is to the aborigines in Australia, the Black americans in the projects - saxiib Khat's consumption as it is of now in UK cities is crippling the community, the consequences trully arent what we should worry about. What we should worry about is the rehabilitation of the addicts and also re-educating the community of the substance that is Khat.

[NGONGE]

^^ As I already stated on countless times in the past, I only chew on special occassions (mainly Eid and fuenrals). So the banning of Khat would make no difference to my life. Marka taa dhinac dhiga.

 

It saddens me that people of your calibre (and Norf's) are talking in such sensationalist way! I'd expect such nonsense from Alpha (and even Alpha knows he's trolling when he writes such stuff) but I really did not expect it from you (BOTH of you). Fix up.

 

First of all, without even talking about Khat in particular you both should be very wary of any calls for the "ban" of things. It is a free world and people's freedoms should not be toyed with just because someone somewhere took exception to something or other.

 

Secondly, if a call for a ban is genuine - and there are many instances where the curbing of the freedoms of some is beneficial to the lives of most - not with ancedotal evidence or feelings of those calling for a ban but with a proper, well researched argument that shows (and proves) that a ban is the best option for all.

 

Khat is a drug, it's addictive and should not be consumed by a Muslim, as you say. But none of what you or Norf presented so far is reason enough for us to blindly support you in your calls for a ban.

 

Your problem is that your both letting your hearts (as always and is is the Somali custom) rule your heads. My heart too says "ban khat". It reminds me of the three friends who committed suicide as a result of becoming marathon chewers. But I am not a hormonal teenager, I am a grown adult, I don't let my heart make my decisions for me.

 

I will only support a ban when I say a proper, well researched and well presented argument that takes EVERYTHING into account and leaves no room for doubt or worry. The Arabs have a saying which when translated to Somali would go something like: wuxu is yedhi indhakool o maray markaaso isha ka riday (which is what Norf risks doing here). Wax fahma dee.