An Invitation For A Party,

[Didi Kong]

That is it sheikh Nur I'm definetly joining xertaada!

 

JB, are you trying to give off the impression that you are saying something that is highly intellectual? because you are not! In how many different languages can you say 'elementary'? because that is my take on all your ramblings.

[Cara.]

Originally posted by Nur:

How empty a life can be when one has no purpose nor a goal.

Nur

On that we can agree, Nur. What may be difficult for you to understand is that living well and doing good, without the expectation of a reward or to avoid punishment, is the greatest expression of human purpose.

 

But to each his own I guess.

[Nur]

JB

 

I am sure that you agree that evrything you use has a purpose, and if they break or are not functioning, they are deemed useless.

 

To answer your question in a detailed way, I need to know of how you see the purpose of your exisitence?

 

 

CARA

 

Finally we found a commoin ground on which we agree, thats great!

 

You write:

 

In that we can agree, Nur. What may be difficult for you to understand is that living well and doing good, without the expectation of a reward or to avoid punishment, is the greatest expression of human purpose. But to each his own I guess.

 

 

Its not difficult, at one poiunt in my life, though very short, I was in your shoes, and I know how it feels from the inside out, it is a void, nothing can fill, except the purpose you are avoiding and you knwo it.

 

Living well is a mean, not a goal, living is not an activity of your choice, your were given, but due to your the cover of your chosen aimlessness on your perception you fail to see the purpose behind life, some agnostics do confirm that there is a purpose behind life, but they admit theor ignorance of what it is,.

 

As for reward and punishment, let me help you here:

 

Since you are materialist, let us begin an analogy of a particle, you see Cara, the way a particle behaves is a miniature way of how a plant behaves, all creations have similar attributes regardless of their sizes. Now, of we carry this analogy to our present life, our life would bearable without a stick and a carrot, wouldnt you agree? imagine some Nomads crossing red light signals since they are Traffic Ligfht AGNOSTIC!? they dont believe, because tey came from Somalia countryside where there was no such a thing .

 

Working hard making no money is ni fun, I am sure that you also agree to that? well, now let visit economics, what does VALUE mean to you? would anybody seek something of no value to them? of course not, so, let us agree that life has a VALUE, and like you said, to each is his own, but in economics the value of things is determined by its quality, and duration, I am sure again that you agree that this life is short and its quality is at best mixed with pain, its never clear skies and smooth sailing.

 

Knowing that Cara ( which in Italian means DEAR or VALUABLE, again), dont you agree that your eyes are fixed too close to the means, not the goals? i

 

We Muskims found the purpose in the pages of teh Holy Quraan, we know where we came from, where we are and where we are going, and how to get there, as for you, you only know where you are and have no interest to know about the rest, you are taking a train oblivious to its destination as long as the food is goo and the music is soothing.

 

 

Nur

[Johnny B]

Nur , We seem to have a brilliant example of Rillion's Law in action: "The amount of knowledge a person has about a particular subject is inversely proportional to his or her tendency to make universal, authoritative statements about

it." .

 

 

more of it, later

[Nur]

JB

 

Why not just admit that you dont have a purpose? nice quotes from famous athiests wont save your soul, you are laughing at a serious issue indeed.

 

 

Here is the eNuri Corollary of that law that finds a better example in you:

 

The amount of IGNORANCE a person has about a particular subject is directly proportional to his or her tendency to be oblivious to the meaning of any statement

 

 

Share Knowledge, NOT ignorance!

 

Nur

[Cara.]

I'm tempted to agree with JB and just leave it at that.

 

Nur, you penned rather hasty and lightly proofread thoughts there. I should try to respond to some of your points.

 

Its not difficult, at one poiunt in my life, though very short, I was in your shoes, and I know how it feels from the inside out, it is a void, nothing can fill, except the purpose you are avoiding and you knwo it.

That's funny, because there was a time I was in your shoes too, so I guess we exchanged footwear (for good, I hope). I used to think I had the truth on lockdown, that a book in a foreign language had all the answers (I didn't realize the questions were contrived), and that my purpose in life was to obey a set of often disagreeable rules in the hope that I would be rewarded for my blind faith by being given lots things after I died. In other words, your purpose is to eschew materialism today so that you can live in hedonistic purposeless bliss tomorrow. Tell me, what will your purpose in Heaven be? Without a goal, won't your eternal neverending afterlife be rather hollow and empty? Deep down inside, you must know the best and only life is the one we live now, and that any talk of life after death is fairytale fit only for children. You actually often wonder if it's all an elaborate hoax, and repress all the doubts and questions so you won't have a mental breakdown. If you find the preceding arrogant and inaccurate, I hope you realize how you sound, with your ridiculous assertion that I am "hollow" inside. I assure I'm chock-full of innards, not to mention thoughts, dreams, and plans. I know your blind arrogance will not be breached, and that it is in the best interest of your self-image to think that the non-religious are actually living frantic lives of empty pleasure-seeking, wondering all the while why they have this nagging voice telling them to be Nur.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so wearying.

 

Living well is a mean, not a goal, living is not an activity of your choice, your were given, but due to your the cover of your chosen aimlessness on your perception you fail to see the purpose behind life, some agnostics do confirm that there is a purpose behind life, but they admit theor ignorance of what it is,.

I actually don't follow the train of thought here. How do we go from "living is not an activity of your choice", which is manifestly true, to "some agnostics do confirm that there is a purpose behind life"? Who are these agnostics? How did they reach this conclusion? If life is to be dismissed because you didn't choose it, then what about the purpose behind life? Did you choose to have this purpose imposed on you? Shouldn't you be looking for yet another purpose to justify this purpose you didn't choose?

 

Sometimes I try to make my friends understand how this religious purpose thing sounds to me by giving them an analogy. Imagine your friend believes that his purpose in life is to rub his left heel against his right ear three times a day. This involves some uncomfortable contortions, but your friend can just manage it and feels happier for doing it. Furthermore, your friend believes that this procedure is the only thing keeping the entire universe from imploding. Your friend is happy, filled with a purpose he believes to be very important, and he lacks for nothing. The fact that the contortion is rather uncomfortable is part of its appeal, because it reinforces the idea that it is of critical importance. He asks you to join him, on the grounds that he has a real purpose and you don't. He dismisses your claim that you have a purpose by saying that yours is a superficial attempt to fill an ear-shaped hole. After all, what have you done lately to save the universe from imploding? How can you be so self-absorbed and shallow? Don't you realize trillions of lives are at risk if he were to die and no one else performed the ceremony? Look deep within yourself, my friend, and you will find that your heel is fair itching to meet the side of your head. Really, why else do we have earlobes?

 

I don't know about you but I wouldn't be pulling my shoes off in agreement any time soon. That's because your imaginary friend has essentially done what you are doing: he's taken an unsubstantiated claim and justified it by assuming that the claim is true, then he tries a guilt trip on you to make you feel ashamed, and finally makes ridiculous assumptions about your psyche.

 

I know you won't believe it, but I see no difference between contorting my body to plaster my foot against my head and contorting my mind to accept your beliefs. If you feel happiest doing whatever it is you do, then good for you. But to me there is no necessity or truth in it. I just find it annoying to have people claiming to know what's really in my (empty) heart. Kind of like hearing a racist white saying that blacks really want to serve whites, and that we just aren't happy or fulfilled unless we are their slaves. The claim is ridiculous and hardly deserves a response, but you still want to give one because you hope others might see how wrong the viewpoint is.

[nemo]

Originally posted by Cara:

That's funny, because there was a time I was in your shoes too, so I guess we exchanged footwear (for good, I hope). I used to think I had the truth on lockdown, that a book in a foreign language had all the answers

Istakh fululallah subxanallah, mate you need HELP badly and people like us (Muslims) shouldn't waste our time on you as you are beyond needing help. I know our Islam tells us that we should guide those misfortunate but you obviously don’t want help. So we should just let you at that. Sad though.

 

PS shouldn’t people like you, those that mock the religion should be banned. Because that’s one of the golden rules and you have broken it. Banned from now on, well in my books so what ever you say from now on I will just ignore it.

[Nephissa]

This is so disheartening, and on the other hand so enlightening. I never knew there were so many skeptics out there! I feel sorry for you though(no offense meant to anybody, because it sure is not empathy) and I hope some day that you can make peace with all of this, and join the rest of us Muslims. This is sad, it really is!

 

*Yea JB babeh, I'll be your Valentine again*

[Nur]

Cara sis

 

I used to have a piece of art work that if you look, all you see are dots, but if you try with a lazy eye, the dots line up and you will see three dimensional real looking world of drawings, mountains and valleys, those net to you cant see what you see, simply they have a blocked perception and you can swear that you see, and they will swear there is nothing there to be seen, each one is right from their perspective, and I respect your inability to see what i see, from my point of view, I would sense a void, from yours, you feel filled to the rim, there must be some wisdom in there, and from my perspective again, Allah tells me that the ability to see is granted by Allah, and earned due to a persons sincere search of what is beyound this life, to find answers to things you said that fill your life like dreams and eath.

 

As for the aim once we are in paradise, and others are in hell, I am sure that you know once a soccer player scores the goal its the end and time to enjoy (again from my perspective) . Paradise is not a boring place we are told and we believe, just like you believe that your current life is fuil and satisfying, but from our perspective, this life is a qualifying life fro anotherf, not the resting place, from your perspective, this life is it, and nothing is beyound death, I have no single doubt of what I believe, but for the sake of argument, we can not both be right, so if you are right, I havent missed much, because i enjoyed life in a different way, on the other hand, if you are wrong, then you are at risk.

 

One can prove that something exists, but its impossible to prove that something does not, so for you to come to a conclusion of stark athiesm, that there is no Creator, and no life after death, it means tat you either have an encompassing knolwledge that assures you of non exisitence of a God, or you are reclessly miscalculating a fact that if it catches up with you, the price would be a permanent torment.

 

 

Now, I will launch a new page of dialogue so we can discuss Athiesm versus Islam, in depth, let us do it with class.

 

 

Respectfully

 

Nur

 

 

N.B.

 

Nameless Sheikha

 

We should not ban visitors who are not of our faith, after all, we need to reach out to build bridges to show them our faith.

[Khalaf]

I never knew there were so many skeptics out there! by Bishy

 

Istakh fululallah subxanallah, mate you need HELP badly and people like us (Muslims) shouldn't waste our time on you as you are beyond needing help. I know our Islam tells us that we should guide those misfortunate but you obviously don’t want help. So we should just let you at that. Sad though. by Nameless

 

 

Asslaamu Alaykum,

 

 

Inshallah all of you are in good health.

 

Its not sad, and we shouldn’t look down upon the sister, she is a human being and as all human beings will raise questions about her purpose in life, the next life and she has every right to do so. In fact she is following the Qu’ran, as Allah says do they not contemplate?

 

Cara I applaud you my sister for sharing your views with us in the manner you did and in a place that will not see eye to eye with you. indeed as Bishy said it is enlightening and I hope you will not be discourage by certain comments and inshallah will continue to share with us your views because they are important as Nur’s or anyone elses.

 

 

Salaamun

[nemo]

Originally posted by Khalaf:

Its not sad, and we shouldn’t look down upon the sister, she is a human being and as all human beings will raise questions about her purpose in life, the next life and she has every right to do so. In fact she is following the Qu’ran, as Allah says do they not contemplate?

Salaamun

Sorry for not applauding someone that is disrespecting my religion. Next time I well give her a big hug and a kiss when she disrespects my beliefs and religion. Because for some old reason I get offended easily when someone does that. Sorry I am not like you and will just let her do that, next you will let her be soo rude to your parents because I see no difference when she does this. Yes she can believe what ever she wants but she only replied to start an argument. So my advice to her is please keep your own opinions to your self and let people like me benefit what the brother posts.

[Socod_badne]

Nur: How do you define PURPOSE in life?

 

 

Enlightened self-interest, ostensibly varying from person to person. My point was, knowing human nature, it's never wise nor sensible to dismiss those with dissimilar believes with snide, belittling tags like leading purposeless, empty life... I find that wanting of sagacity, a tad bit of tolerance and requisite mutual respect. Just airing my displeasure with your approach, that's all.

 

 

Originally posted by Didi Kong:

Allah describes athiests and disbelievers as being animals or even worse.

 

You're not Allah? Unless you'll provide us with irrefutable evidence that you're messanger of Allah with the authorization to denigrate others, you're answerable only for yourself. Don't hide behind Allah when defending your ego 'cause Allah doesn't need you defending him!

 

 

We don't need to know about your connections or who you know because simply we don't care about them and we certainly do not care about you!

 

We? Who are you speaking for here? Just say I don't care about you SB. I can live with that and closer to the truth.

 

 

So why don't you stop being bigoted toward sheikh Nur and let everyone benifit from his wisdom! okaaaaay!

 

 

I wasn't being bigoted! Do you really understand what bigotry means? I'll help you:

 

big·ot·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bg-tr)

n.

--The attitude, state of mind, or behavior characteristic of a bigot; intolerance.(dictionary.com)

 

Now, I re-read my post several times and I can't spot the bigotry you alluded to. Care to pin-point for me? Thanks!

 

 

I don't want to have to remind you about this again. you have been warned!

Is that the final warning? Shouldn't you warn me of impeNding warning? It seems a little sneaky Didi, not fair at all. I guess that is somewhat expected living so close to Indho-yars in the land from down under, bound to rub off you know. Had you given me the heads up - a warning of warning - I would've preempted with my own preemptive warning or carried out evasive maneuver. Technically not sneaky move... instead here I am wounded, cornered, baying. I guess time to make the mayday calls. I'm hit, going down but not definitely out. Give me time to recuperate and we can duke it out, ok?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by nameless_chick:

Sorry for not applauding someone that is disrespecting my religion.

 

Who disrespected your religion little one? I think you're suffering from Don Quixote syndrome: battling imagined foes and getting up in arms over unsaid slanders. Remember it was I who reproved Nur for saying Cara type -- irreligious -- lead empty lifes. The poor girl didn't even defend herself initially and only joined the fray afterwards. I confess that got my dormant chivalrous side almost erupt in full force.

 

Don't forget others have the same right to disrespect your religion just like you have for theirs. If you can exercise your right, why shouldn't they?

 

 

Because for some old reason I get offended easily when someone does that.

 

No, you're just little inordinately snappy. It's not desirous or redeeming personal attribute, so eschew it or get it under control before its untowrd manifestations uncontrollably come to the fore.

[Khalaf]

Sorry for not applauding someone that is disrespecting my religion. Next time I well give her a big hug and a kiss when she disrespects my beliefs and religion. Because for some old reason I get offended easily when someone does that. Sorry I am not like you and will just let her do that, next you will let her be soo rude to your parents because I see no difference when she does this. Yes she can believe what ever she wants but she only replied to start an argument. So my advice to her is please keep your own opinions to your self and let people like me benefit what the brother posts.

 

 

-- What I can’t understand is how people can get offended and emotional with those who hold different opinions when it comes to al-Islam.

 

 

The sister’s views, her post was not disrespecting Islam she was showing her perspective, I don’t think it was to start an argument but showing her discontent with earlier comments as she said: “I just find it annoying to have people claiming to know what's really in my (empty) heart.â€

 

Sister nameless this is an open forum, everyones comments should be welcomed weather you agree with it or not. How can you benefit if you are never challenged about your believes?

 

Islam is a rational religion for those who think and question about life, the world, the heavens, next life…..Islam is the way for people like Cara in my opinion.

 

We are not the Christians, when you question them they tell you just got to have faith. Blind faith, “religious dogma†is what the sister finds a problem if I am wrong correct me.

 

 

I dig this quote Vibes signature: ~Discussions are an exchange of intelligence. Arguments are an exchange of ignorance~.

 

Question is do people want a discussion………..that means listening and respecting the other party………..or just arguing…………no benefit

 

salaamun

[nemo]

First of all the reason I said that she was disrespecting my religion was what she said earlier not what she believes. Because for all I care she can believe what ever she wants and others can enjoy her.

that a book in a foreign language had all the answers

Sarcasm these days is another method of teasing, mocking, and an attack what ever you call it.