Shariif and Gaandi meet in Nairobi

[Che -Guevara]

NGONGE-Gotchu, Somalis would still have to deal with each other even AS and foreigners are both defeated, Will Azania sit down with TFG and Puntland?

[The Zack]

^Azania is already sitting down with the TFG. Remember the reason for this thread was to report that . Azania is also a friend of Puntland. Faroole fully supports it. So they will sit them.

[Jacpher]

The Zack;759840 wrote:

I am well aware of the stance of the community I am speaking of. Unfortunately, You are against the Kenyan incursion for your clan interest, not for nationalistic reasons. Shariif Canbe opposed the Kenyan intervention because of Azania. The difference between you and him is one finally said it out loud while the other is still hiding behind nationalism.

Puntland fully supports Kenya's invasion -check

Faroole stands by Kenya's invasion -check

Abdiwali signed on Kenya's invasion -check

 

Yet you say some Puntlanders oppose Kenya's military operation inside Somalia out of hatred and deep seated animosity for the Ghandi clan and Azania administration??? I don't get the logic. Sxb walk me through horta. How can you accuse anyone lacking patriotism and nationalism when in fact they say no to foreign invasion???

[NGONGE]

^^ Unlikely of course. But with new players there will have to be a new AUUN Road Map. It will all depend on what comes out of the dust after the defeat of the outsiders that defeat Al Shabab. It all happens in steps and the more steps, the more change the more chance of people finally getting tired of it all and doing something about it. Keeping things as they are will only be like having warlords for fifteen years before the Courts came and changed the name of the game. I simply want things to change faster this time. Let them all have a go ninyaho.

[The Zack]

Jacpher;759864 wrote:

Puntland fully supports Kenya's invasion -check

Faroole stands by Kenya's invasion -check

Abdiwali signed on Kenya's invasion -check

 

Yet you say some Puntlanders oppose Kenya's military operation inside Somalia out of hatred and deep seated animosity for the Ghandi clan and Azania administration??? I don't get the logic. Sxb walk me through horta. How can you accuse anyone lacking patriotism and nationalism when in fact they say no to foreign invasion???

Faroole is on board, Puntland is on board, majority of that community are on board. I was talking about YOU, Jacphar.

 

There are two kinds of people who are against the Kenyan incursion: a Shabaab supporter or a clanist. Wareyso Gabbal.

 

Tell me why would anyone oppose this. I am not a fan of foreigners, don't like them.. I and many many Somalis support this one for a simple reason. We want Alshabaab out! Kenyans may have their own motives but the motive we have is bigger. We are using them and not the other way around. Sidaa u garo abti.

 

Suldaan Ali Sonkor, The suldaan of multiple clans, supports this, Sh. Khaliif Guure supports this. Abdillahi Mohamed supports this. These people don't like the Kenyans, they have to now, temporarily. It is a matter of desperation. The community has shown its support both via demonstrations (Held in Islii, Garissa, and Dhoobley) and by the media. I have no doubt they will have shown their support from Badhaadhe to Kismayo but they are not free, they can't say anything.

 

We need to understand what we would like to see happen from what we can now see happen. It is dream vs reality. Bringing the Kenyans is not a good thing, I admit it. It is the best we can come up with now to kickk the khawaarij out.

[Che -Guevara]

NGONGE;759865 wrote:

^^ Unlikely of course. But with new players there will have to be a new AUUN Road Map. It will all depend on what comes out of the dust after the defeat of the outsiders that defeat Al Shabab. It all happens in steps and the more steps, the more change the more chance of people finally getting tired of it all and doing something about it. Keeping things as they are will only be like having warlords for fifteen years before the Courts came and changed the name of the game. I simply want things to change faster this time. Let them all have a go ninyaho.

Noted,

 

Zack-let's not BS. You aren't one celebrating Sharif being humiliated? You are more interested putting down others than rather finding solutions. Like NGONGE, your test will come when Ethios roll in.

[The Zack]

You seriously believe that I want Xamar stay the way it is? Shariif is an individual.

[Jacpher]

The Zack;759866 wrote:

Faroole is on board, Puntland is on board, majority of that community are on board. I was talking about YOU, Jacphar.

 

There are two kinds of people who are against the Kenyan incursion: a Shabaab supporter or a clanist. Wareyso Gabbal.

 

Tell me why would anyone oppose this. I am not a fan of foreigners, don't like them.. I and many many Somalis support this one for a simple reason. We want Alshabaab out! Kenyans may have their own motives but the motive we have is bigger. We are using them and not the other way around. Sidaa u garo abti.

^Oh gotcha my friend. I'm the one with all the hatred and animosity for the O? Wow! I didn't know you've cilmil-qaby powers. Tell us when is Jesus returning??

 

Seriously, you can't classify people into little categories. People can be against Kenya's illegal war in Somali for many many gazillion reasons. Not just the two you listed. They can be for AS or against and still think Kenya has no business in Somalia. This is really getting elementary. You can't accuse the vast majority of the Somalis that oppose Kenya's interference with Somalia to either be with AS or have ulterior clannish motives. That's a huge accusation you don't want to be making my friend. You're saying if you say no to Kenya, you must want AS or must hate the O clan??

 

Waxaaga kama duwan either with Kenya or with AS. That's your solution my good friend?

[The Zack]

Jacphar

 

I might have made bigger accusations than I intended to but I didn't see a better way to make my point come through these unknown waves.

 

I want you to close your eyes and think about this for a minute. Jubbooyinka have been under Shabaab for a while now, their people are held as hostages and there isn't any sign of Shabaab leaving there anytime soon. Would you rather keep these people the way they are for decades or would you, if you could, use another power temporarily to kick them out. Kenya might have its own interest in this but the interest these people have is much much more. If Kenya decides not leave there after the Shabaab is kicked out, Somalis can easily fight against Kenya. Somalis are well-known for kicking foreigners out easily but Somalis fail to kick internal gumeysi, warlords and wadaads, out.

I agree with NGONGE's conclusion.

 

In summary, I have no love for foreigners, I have no love for Kenya BUT AT THE MOMENT and the CURRENT situation, this is the best option. Waxaad rabto haddaad weydo, waxaad awoodo ....

[Jacpher]

Sxb I wish things were as simple as you're making them out to be. We're talking about a region that's been in a constant turmoil. The port city is the second most fought city in the country. Only Moqdisho is ahead of Kismaayo in terms of war and violence and change of hands. The situation is as complex as it gets. No quick fix is gonna reverse twenty years of inter clan warfare. Neither is foreign entity gonna alter the situation for the better.

 

As much as you don't like to acknowledge, AS made living possible in Kismaayo since they gained control of the city. They made those dark days of yaad u dhalatay and isbaaro behind. It wouldn't be over exaggeration to say Kismaayo has seen peace and stability when AS showed up. No peace under any clan administration. What you're suggesting couldn't work in Moqdisho and it is not going to work in Kismaayo. You're repeating the recent history of Moqdisho. In Yusuf had the same line of thinking as you when he arrived Moqdisho with Ethiopian tanks. We all know how it ended. The Kenyans are gonna fix us up quickly and leave and we'll live peacefully ever after is kind of childish thinking. AS is a Somali problem. Somalia's solution has to come from Somalis, not foreign entities.

[The Zack]

This is where our biggest disagreement comes from.

 

You think that the 2011 Kenyan incursion = The 2006 Xabashi invasion, I don't.

 

You think that Shabaab = ICU, I don't.

 

When you say Somali solution has to come from within, can you elaborate on that? How exactly can that happen? Please answer this question because Che couldn't. You are telling us Somalia's problem has to be solved by Somalis but you also tell us that Somalis failed to secure Kismaayo and Xamar for more than two freaking decades. Two contradicting ideas, don't you think? Dhinaca kale, you are confusing two things with one another. Using the Ethiopian example, you stated that the foreigners can't bring stability with the barrel of a gun. I want to correct you on that, Actually foreigners, AMISOM, actually did that. For the first time in 20 years, the capital is completely under a Somali government. Kudos to the foreigners.

 

P.s. There is a general rule that goes like this, if one is opposing to an idea, one has to come up with a better one.

[Jacpher]

Sxb AS were splinter of ICU so not much difference there. Neither is Kenya that any different than Eithopia. One thing we learned out of the Somali civil war over the last two decades is that Somali politics and factions change everyday just like the weather does. You can bet on that.

 

Anyhow, good nite sxb, we'll pick up from here later.

[sharma-arke451]

The al-shabab factor is minor when compared to foreign invasion, because the former, however bad, are somalis, and the latter however good, are foreigners,

 

As the saying goes, ''fartaado halawday, firdhis kaagama harto.''

The argument that, ''we seek foreign invasion to rid al-shabab'' is cheap.

 

history repeats itself. In the past, the ethiopians were invited to clean the house of the islamic court union(icu), did that ever happen?? A big no. Infact, it gave raise to alshabab.

 

Now, what will kenya, with a weak military power do to get rid of alshabab? I think nothing.

 

so, its vital people understand that foreign invasion is not a solution to somali problem, but part of it (the problem). Every mamul is tied in one way or the other to a foreign power, hence the poor governance.

 

Yakheey baqti looma cuno wan baaahanahay, ee dhareerka halaiska duwaa, hadii ladhimanaayo xita.

 

finally, repeating every other time what we think on the board of sol, won't change anything on the ground. The best way, is to act individually what is within our reach, and pray hard.