Just Me And My Sufi Friend!

[Nur]

Awakener

 

Wishing you a safe trip, having no access to the internet is inconvenient, having no mobile phone is worse, but i pray that your connection with Allah is hot and humming with tasbeex, tahliil, takbeer, istighfaar and salaat calal rasuul.

 

I will contiune inshaAllah.

 

 

Nur

[Nur]

Awakener bro.

 

Are you back from the wilderness?

 

 

Nur

[Ms DD]

Salaam aleykum brother Nur

 

What a wealth of info in this section. I just finished the first page of this thread. Maashallah.

 

In the second page, I came accross this:

 

"In the past, I have experienced several metaphyisical encounters that I cannot explain, I have seen things that look like humans going through walls, I have heard someone I know asking me for help in my quasi dream, later that person confirmed that they were in need for me to help, my dreams are mostly about flying like a bird, gliding in space, I can fly and fly looking down on neighborhoods I used to live in, a very enjoyable experience, all locked up in th ghaib. Can I explain dreams, or how I glide in my sleep, no, only Allah SWT can explain, but I am amazed, I am so ignorant."

 

I found the above fascinating. It almost sounded as what a sufi would say. A brother suggested that I send peace and salli to our belowed prophet (saw) whilst touching the black stone at the Haram and you will be in different plane spiritually (kinda out of body experience type). Needless to say, I recalled this conversation whislt I was kissing the balck stone and waan ku salliyey nabiga (saw). Nothing occured. Maybe I was lacking spiritually.

[Khayr]

I found the above fascinating. It almost sounded as what a sufi would say. A brother suggested that I send peace and salli to our belowed prophet (saw) whilst touching the black stone at the Haram and you will be in different plane spiritually (kinda out of body experience type). Needless to say, I recalled this conversation whislt I was kissing the balck stone and waan ku salliyey nabiga (saw). Nothing occured. Maybe I was lacking spiritually.

Literalism at its best!

[Positive]

Hello brother Nur,

 

Asallaamu calaykum !

 

Yes I'm back from, what did you call it, " the wilderness". I mean from Somalia.

 

The Awakener2

[Malika]

This is fascinating, am still on first pages but had learned something today...thanks brothers!

 

plz do continue!

[Ms DD]

Originally posted by Khayr:

quote: I found the above fascinating. It almost sounded as what a sufi would say. A brother suggested that I send peace and salli to our belowed prophet (saw) whilst touching the black stone at the Haram and you will be in different plane spiritually (kinda out of body experience type). Needless to say, I recalled this conversation whislt I was kissing the balck stone and waan ku salliyey nabiga (saw). Nothing occured. Maybe I was lacking spiritually.

Literalism at its best!

I was curious enough to try. You should have heard my friend describing the feeling he felt. Even you would have attempted it

[Positive]

Soul brothers/sisters

 

I and brother Nur , through out our discussions, have been crisscrossing the threshold of the esoteric and exoteric path of Islam. Nur a knowledgeable man has been advocating for the exoteric path of Sunnah School of Thought in Islam and with his deep belief states that it is the only right path that can accommodate the spiritual needs of everyone. In my part I have been asserting that this same path has esoteric component which compliments it. This complimentary path which is mystic in nature is in accord with the Islamic teaching. It has in fact merits, I state, which can not be just thrown away.

 

A sticky point in our discussion has been the role of the teachers: the exoteric versus esoteric teachers. In fact a nutshell of our difference has been this. Whatever Nur or for that matter others believe about Sufism as a School of Thought is his/their own affairs. I’m not here to defend Sufism because their methods of teaching stands high and shines like a day light. I’m here though to state that I have done comparative study of these set of teachers and have come to my own conclusion. I can say in brief that I like the traditional culima and their role as teachers. They are needed. but I have also began to appreciate and value the Sufi teachers with regard to the spiritual methods they employ. I have already learned that their methods may facilitate unique spiritual experiences for the lover of God and these experiences may lead one, with the help and by the Grace of God, to more lofty experiences

 

Before we delve further into our discussion let us look the meaning of the words: esoteric/exoteric. The methodology where religious teaching is given in a way that all can understand is called exoteric. This method is not for selected minority or well informed people but for all. Conversely in a methodology where the teaching is intended for initiates is called esoteric or mystic. Note that the content of the teaching is the same but the methodology of teaching is different.

 

Most of us are familiar with the exoteric methodology because it has been the dominant method of teaching in all societies in all times. Nur or others could compliment me here if they so desire but I will take up the mystic teachers and their role as religious teachers.

 

I prefer to use the story of prophet Musa( pbuh) and prophet Al-khidr(pbuh) as illustration because in its allegorical context it explains the point I want to make.

 

 

Prophet Musa (pbuh) Spoke directly with God. But he became humbled when God told him and proofed to him that there was at least one who knew things that he did know.

 

The Story:

 

One day Musa (pbuh) delivered such an impressive sermon that all who heard it was deeply moved. Someone in the congregation asked: "O Messenger of Allah, is there another man on earth more learned than you?" Musa replied: "No!", believing so, as Allah had given him the power of miracles and honoured him with the Torah. However, Allah revealed to Musa that no man could know all there is to know, nor would one messenger alone be the custodian of all knowledge. There would always be another who knew what others did not. Musa asked Allah: "O Allah, where is this man? I would like to meet him and learn from him." He also asked for a sign to this person's identity. Allah instructed him to take a live fish in a water filled vessel. When the fish disappeared, he would find the man he sought. Musa set out on his journey, acompanied by a young man who carried the vessel with the fish. They reached a place where two rivers met and decided to rest there. Instantly, Musa fell asleep.

 

While he was asleep, his companion saw the fish wriggle out of the vessel into the river and swim away. However, he forgot to relate the incident to Musa. When he awoke, they continued their journey until they were exhausted and hungry. Musa asked for his morning meal. Only then did his companion recall that the fish they had brought with them had gotten away. Hearing this, Musa exclaimed: "This is exactly what we are seeking!"

 

They hurriedly retraced their steps to the place where the rivers met and where the fish had jumped out. There they found a man, his face partly covered with a hood. His bearing showed he was a saintly man. He was Al-Khidr, the guide.

Moses greeted him and told he had come to find out that which God wanted Moses to know through Khidr. So “Do you allow me to follow you and would teach me the things God has taught you?” Khidr said God has given me knowledge of some of His mysteries which you do not know. You might find them strange and therefore it might be difficult for you to stop yourself from asking questions when you are with me.. When Moses promised to be patient, Khidr agreed to let Musa accompany him and learn from him. Provided that he would just watch and not ask questions. Musa went along with Khidr. Soon after they come to a river khidr hired a boat The people on the boat knew Khidr and did not charge them any money. As they were crossing the river Khidr made a hole in the boat by breaking a plank. Musa became annoyed at this and said to Khidr “ is this how you repay their kindness. Why did you do that”. Khidr replayed “ did I not tell you not to ask questions?”. Just then a bird came and sat on the prow of the boat and drank a drop of water. “ Our knowledge is like that drop in comparison to Gods knowledge which is like the ocean said Khidr.

 

Now to make the story short:

 

A second action took place When they reached a town across the river and when they were passing through it they saw a nice child. For no reason Khidr suddenly rushed to the child caught him and killed him immediately. Muse become even more annoyed. A third and last action happed when they arrived in a town and asked the people for some food and shelter. The people in the town did not treat them with hospitality. They left the town while still hungry. As they were leaving the town they saw a wall which was about to collapse. Khidr repaired it without taking any money for his work. This seemed strange to Muse.

 

Khidr, after these three strange actions, told Musa that it was time for them to part but before he left he revealed the secrets of his action to Muse.

 

1) About the boat: It belonged to poor people who earned their living from it. The king who lives across the river is cruel and takes all good boats by force Khidr said. I made a hole in it so that it would look broken and useless and the king wouldn’t take it.

 

2) About child: His parents are very virtuous and pious people said Khidr but the child would have grown up to be atheist and very wicked person and would make their life miserable. They would be unhappy at his death, but the pain and sorrow would be much less than what they would have had to bear if he had grown up to be a sinner. There was the possibility that he would force his parent to accept atheism. God will soon give them another son who will be a joy in their old age.

 

 

3) As the fixing of the wall: I did that because of a treasure to two orphan children is hidden beneath that wall, said Khidr. Their father was very virtuous man and it was God’s wish that these boys found the treasure when they grow up.

 

The end

 

Now one wonder about how little we human beings know about the mysteries of God. Indeed everything has a reason and God, the Wise, the Omniscient and the Omnipotent alone knows everything.

 

It is my belief that there are always people on earth who are gifted with Divine Wisdom more then the others. We are told about Awliya who are always among us. I have neither time nor Space to speak about them now but we know they are HERE to help so that the Divine Plan of God can function according to His will.

 

Is earth barren now of highly evolved humans with spiritual gifts? Why don’t they come forward and help us in all departments of our life ?

 

Well I think they are HERE and want to help but we are incapable to recognize them. We are also yet irresponsible to handle the higher knowledge and the powers that this knowledge eventually can give us.

 

Unless we can recognize these highly evolved mystic teachers we have to fend for ourselves. One fends for himself until he/she receives direct spiritual experiences because in the lack of such experiences ones spiritual understanding depends on what he/she learns instead of what he KNOWs. With only learned knowledge one is in danger to become disgruntled with his religion and may wonder from one religion to another through his Life or in worst case scenario may become, in his mental reality, a Godless being.

 

The esoteric teachers are keepers of higher methods and spiritual education which is unique and is in their possession. They ask though to be approached by the truth seeker. When that happens the seeker becomes the Acolyte who has to learn the secrets of Life from his teacher. Eventually the seeker may become well versed in both exoteric and esoteric knowledge and may become a teacher himself/herself.

 

conclusion: the exoteric and esoteric teachers are like the two sides of the coin. One cannot exist without the other.

 

NB I will appreciate if Nur could answer the questions I asked him in one of my last write-ups.

 

Peace and friendliness

 

 

The Awakener2

[Positive]

EXPERIENCES IN THE WILDERNESS

 

Following is a glimpse of mystical teacher in one of his roles:

 

 

The devotee found himself in a land of wilderness away from the worldly passions of the mind, the physical argues for food and procreation and for sensual desire for material things. Sitting on a green grass on a green open field he enjoyed the musical sound of the water running in a stream zigzagging through the field and disappearing into a thick forest.

 

In addition to the scenery that was pleasing to his senses he was inwardly at PEACE. Because he was in the company of his teacher.

 

“Teacher can I ask you something?” the devotee said hesitantly to his teacher.

 

“Yes of course” said the teacher with a kind voice full of compassion.

 

“I had a dream, a LUCID dream last night. Could you explain it to me?” said the devotee.

 

“ All wisdom and blessing belongs to God. It is ONLY by His GRACE one can be delivered from IGNORANCE” said the teacher with a voice full of simplicity and humbleness.

 

The devotee began again “last night in a lucid dream I found myself in a wonderland of beauty. Initially I was flying above the clouds when I became fully aware………..

 

When the devotee finished the story the teacher began:

 

“ There are experiences which are for all men. But there are other experiences which are unique and can be had by the few of men and women who have fulfiled certain condition in their devotion ……………” Thus continued the teacher until he fell into a deep silence. In that moment the chirping of the grasshoppers, the murmuring of the water and sound of swaying branches of the trees became audible to the seeker.

 

“That is my explanation about your mystical experience “ said the teacher with a voice that suddenly interrupted the passing of time.

 

The seeker with great hesitance said again” Teacher do I need you as a teacher. I mean are you an authority I have to follow “?

 

The teacher smiled broadly and began by saying“ all authority belongs to God and all wisdom and power belongs solely to Him. As Soul ………….” thus continued the teacher answering the role of the teacher, and his relationship with the seeker.

 

When the teacher finished his discourse the devotee was still unsure of himself. From his looks the teacher seemed unimposing and simple. With his air of humbleness the teacher, whether you found him in THE WILDERNESS or in your company in a crowded city, would pass you by without you sensing the capacity of his deep mystical knowledge..

 

RECOGNIZING your teacher of higher knowledge, in your next step of your spiritual unfoldment, thought the seeker, is not only a human art but( may be) the teacher appears to the seeker when God degrees such a meeting.

 

 

The Awakener2

[Nur]

Awakener Bro.

 

 

Good to have you back, I have read your contributions and its roaring, maashAllah, our dialogue, one of the longest running on SOL just got a new life.

 

Let us structure the dialogue this time around in a manner that will deliver a result.

 

First Let us agree on the basics.

 

1. As Muslims, we both believe in Allah SWT.

2. We believe that he is the only God.

3. We believe that he created everything, thus the Master and sovereign over everything.

4. We believe that he has sent Mesengers and Prophets to mankind for guidance, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

5. He Sent with these Prophets teachings.

6. The teachings were about purpose of creation, what we should know, what we should do, and results we should accomplish in our lifetime, to earn eternal happiness and peace.

7. That these teachings are GOOD for mankind.

8. The last set of teachings wee delivered by Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

9. That these teachings and the Holy Quraan were complete, as the Prophet Muhammad was the las prophet, thus his teachings were COMPLETE.

10. That the only sources to guarantee salvation is the quraan and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad SAWS, the body of the knowledge transmitted by Allah to His Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

 

 

Based on the above basics.

 

Allah SWT said in Quraan:

 

" In case you dispute on an issue, then refer back to Allah ( Quraan) and the Messenger ( Sunnah-Hadeeth)

 

It was reported that the Prophet Muhammad SAWS said " I have Left for you two BOKs (Bodies of Knowledge), if you follow them, you will never get lost again: The Quran and my Sunnah"

 

 

The purpose of Allah's creation of mankind was ONLY the WORSHIP of Allah.

 

The worship of Allah SWT was detailed in Quraan and Sunnah. Nothing was left out!

 

It therefore follows that no one can get closer to Allah by NOT FOLLOWING the two bodies of knowledge, or by introducing a new philosophy of worship not taught by Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

 

1. WORSHIP OF ALLAH begins with Belief in:

 

A. Allah.

B. Angels

C. REVELATIONS ( HERE LIES OUR MAIN disagreement, I say revelation means heavenly transmitted books of which Quraan was last and Sunnah, you say, everyone can receive it from an enlightened teacher)

D. MESSENGERS/PROPHETS

E. RESURRECTION AND JUDGEMENT DAY

F. QADAR, Good and Bad.

 

2. WORSHIP OF ALLAH has three forms:

 

A. RITUALS TO PERFORM

B. LAWS TO UPHOLD

C. LOYALTIES TO SAFEGUARD

 

 

A. RITUALS can only be performed the way Allah SWT taught His Messenger, any change of the way rituals are performed will diminsh the value of that worship to the point of null and voidness.

 

B. LAWS of Allah in SHARIA, must be upheld, as these laws demarkate SOVEREGNTY of ALLAH.

 

C. Allah is the waliyy ( Ally) of believers, and Satan is the Waliyy for the unbelievers, the highest form of worship is to align our efforts with the teachings, rituals and laws of Allah SWT as practically instructed by His Messenger Muhammad SAWS, without any addition or deletion.

 

 

Allah SWT says in Quraan:

 

" They ask you ( Muhammad) about the soul, tell them that the knowledge of the soul is a domain reserved for Allah alone"

 

 

Now, Awakener bro. based on the above verse from Quraan, how much of the knowledge of the Ruux (soul) were left behind by Prophet Muhammad SAWS for us to follow?

 

If he did, how much was it compared to the other Sharia knowledge (percentage wise)?

 

How important was that knowledge for our salvation in the day of Judgement.

 

Does the knowledge of the soul empower people to act like Allah, by knowing the ghaib (unseen)?

 

Does it require special highly trained teachers to transmit this knowledge of the soul?

 

If that is the case, what happens to the majority lay people who have no access to reach one these highly "enlightened" elite teachers?

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Brother Nur,

 

Super analysis as always! It seems our discussion is going to become more productive- InshaAllah,

 

I will answer your question to the best of my ability but first thing first. We need to explore the basics together. You may try to answer my questions first. Would you?

 

 

You can continue with your last answer: Who is Muslim ?

 

further questions you can explore:

 

1) What conditions you have to fullfil to be

( qualified as) a Muslim?

 

2) What nullifies to be muslim ?

 

3) Can a third person tell another person that he/she is NOT a muslim while the first person is claiming that he is muslim.

 

The Awakener2

[Nur]

Awakener bro.

 

A Late Eid Mubaarak

 

 

You ask:

 

You can continue with your last answer: Who is Muslim ?

 

further questions you can explore:

 

1) What conditions you have to fullfil to be

( qualified as) a Muslim?

 

2) What nullifies to be muslim ?

 

3) Can a third person tell another person that he/she is NOT a muslim while the first person is claiming that he is muslim.

 

 

Answer:

 

InshaAllah, answers to these questions and more will follow soon

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Brother Nur,

 

Eid Mubaarak.

 

Proceed on brother.

 

The Awakener2

[Nur]

Positive bro.

 

I have overlooked this thread for a while, inshAllah I will address your questions in a novel eNuri way soon, I want to call it:

 

Certified Muslim Practinoner Program.

 

..............So many unlicensed "Mulsims" passing themselves as genuine Muslims, confusing non Muslims!

 

" Rabanaa laa tajcalnaa fitnatan lilladiina kafaruu" amin

 

 

Time to corect this phenomena with a professionally sanctioned eNuri standards committee!

 

Your Patience

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Walaal Nur,

 

Isticmaalka kelmada "muslim " iyo erayo kale oo aad raacisay qadaf ayey kaaga dhaceen. Labo sano oo jawaab la'aan ah kadib maan sugayn tan.

 

" certified muslim practitioner" in aad tahay layskuma hayo e waxaa loo baahan yahay in aad wax na barto oo aad ka jawaabto su'aalaha. Ama caddayso oo dheh jawaabi maayo. Talo saddexaad oo kuu furan waxaa weeyaan in aad ka gaabsato jawaabta oo sidaas ay ku xiranto doodu.

 

Wixii aan intaas ahayn waa khalad baan qabaa. Gaar ahaan hadda oo ay jawaabtu qaadatay labo sano ku dhowaad!!

 

Fadlan ka jawaab su'aalaha. Qadaf dambena inaga ilaali doodeenna faa'iido uma laha e.

 

Walaalkaa

 

Toosiye2