Just Me And My Sufi Friend!

[Positive]

I'm not in a mood to dissect Islam into parts. Neither do I prefer one School of Islamic Thought over the other. The Ahlul Sunnah, the Sufis and Shi'a, in my view, belong to the same and unified pillar of Islam. Nothing will be gained from divissions inside the House of the Ummah.

 

If muslims can not live in peace and harmony among themselves by accepting that they belong to their same faith- Islam, then I think they have nothing to offer to the rest of humanity. This statement is a true one and you will all(almost all) agree with me.

 

I will add to that that divise acts are disservice to Islam in its global mission as much as it weakens the Ummah.

 

If Islam is peace then we(muslims) should become examples of peace and love.Then those in other faiths, or even those inside Islam with weak Iman, will find something good from us to EMULATE. It is all about gaining the hearts and minds of your fellow human beings by doing good deeds and acting in a compassionate manner.

 

The following link my do good reading for you. Not that I endorse the writer but the content is good. Good reading!

 

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/sufitlk.htm

 

 

The Awakener2

[Nur]

Awakener Brother

 

It is good to know tghat you are still around, my prayers that one day we come to conclusion that islam is a definite faith with clear entry point, rules to live by and exit point for those dissatisfied with it. I appreciate your keenness on peace and love, a truly Islamic principle, however, the closer we are to what Allah accepts the better our faith, thus let us strive to agree to converge to a common point accodring to Allahs words: that we do not worship other than Allah in any form, that we do not make shirk with him, and further that some of us should not take others for Gods.

 

 

Nur

[Darqawi]

Nur,

 

I do not like your sarcastic rattle, but I shall comply with your request nonetheless.

 

Yes, sitting at the feet of the scholar. It has always been done traditionally. It does not have to be a teacher of Tasawwuf only. It applies to every teacher: fiqh, shariah, aqeedah and so forth. Look back and forth throughout Islamic literature and you would see how the students behaves with their teachers. Just pick up any basic biographies of any of the Imams. Let me suggest one – Imam Malik.

 

You claimed that you never meet him, so how dare you to even suggest that he coms onto this very forum and replies to your ranting? Get real.

 

No, no on washes his feet and drink the water. Do you do that?

 

All these talk about Dhikr. People of Tasawwuf say Allah Allah Allah. That’s their Dhikr.

 

And it seems like, the dhikr of some of these lunatics are: BIDAH SHIKR KUFR.

 

So which Dhikr is better? And what’s it gonna be for you?

 

Anyhow, I don't intend to reply anymore in this distasteful thread.

[Nur]

Darqawi

 

It was you brother who started out with a reminder of proper aadaab, your words smell that you are a bit irritated due to your belief that I am an opponent of your views in islam, beating the very purpose of debate before it even began.

 

For you to suggest that i go sit under the feet of your Shiekh is disrecspectful to me, assuming that everyone to be a student to your sheikh shows a narrow perception of reality, and your choice of words to sugest that i am ranting is not in line with your declared commitment to proper Islamic Aadaab. And finally for you to post so many threads about the Sheikh and when you are asked to have the Sheikhs points be defended, for you to send readers to go sit under his feet, is not a respectful way to get followers for your Sheikh if that was your intention.

 

If you are student of sufism, the best way to share your experience is to have a respectful dialogue with those who disagree with you, if you are only looking for people to agree with you, you should stay with the Sheikh, on this forum, no one but Allah is sacred, and no human is followed except the Prophet Muahammad SAWS, everyone else is a human and they need to come to people for their own salvation if they value their knowledge.

 

If your sole interest is to use these pages as a traffic redirection, that is well understood, if on the other hand you are looking for a respectful debate in which you have the skin to gracefully accept criticism, then welcome brother, i think that you will enrich others and you will be enriched.

 

 

Peace

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Nur

 

Thanks for your appreciation of my being around.

 

You say:

 

"... my prayers that one day we come to conclusion that islam is a definite faith with clear entry point, rules to live by and exit point for those dissatisfied with it".

 

Of course Islam is already a definite faith with the qualities you mentioned; or is it ?

 

Would you please elaborate the above point.

 

You also continue to say:

 

"....... let us strive to agree to converge to a common point accodring to Allahs words: that we do not worship other than Allah in any form, that we do not make shirk with him, and further that some of us should not take others for Gods".

 

In your opinion who are MUSLIMS that have to converge to those common points?

 

Please feel free to make your comments .

 

Thanks.

 

The awakener2

[Nur]

Dear Awakener brother

 

My point is that we need to agree on the basics of islam, details can always be worked out.

 

The basic fabric of Islam is the principle that states that no one should be worshipped but Allah.

 

My point is that we both agree on that statment, but we diverge how we interpret it. So let us define the terms involved in that declaration;

 

What is your interpretation of the term Ilaah?

 

What is your interpretation of the term Ibaadah?

 

 

In this discussion, once we define these terms and agree on it, the details will be easy inshAllah.

 

Walaalkaa

 

Nur

[Positive]

Brother Nur

 

I do not know where you want to lead us with your questions.If by the way your aim in this discussion is to proof either to your self or to the others that you are knowledgeable Sheikh or other things which I do not foresee then I’m rising the white flag-now. If you are on the other hand interested to have genuine discussion without name calling or reverting to deleting postings/thread by using your administrator power then I'm will welcome to have discussion with you.

 

I need your assurance.

 

Now briefly there are two other questions we have to ask ourselves before we try to divulge the answers of your questions: 1) Who is Muslim? 2)What is the purpose of ALL religious practice? These two questions beg also to be answered in her.

 

I propose that you answer the first question( you can comment/answer both questions ) and I will answer the second.

 

What is the purpose of ALL religious practice?

 

The purpose of all religious practice is to remember God and the WHOLE goal of religious endeavour is nothing else but to remember Him regardless of your physical, emotional and mental state. God says:

 

“ And establish regular prayer for My remembrance.’ [20:14]

 

God has also said: ‘Recite what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish the prayer. Verily, the prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds. And God’s remembrance is greater.’

 

It has been said that this means, ‘In prayer you remember God and He remembers you, and His remembrance of you is greater than your remembrance of Him. Repeating the names of God, deeply feeling the aesthetic beauty of His creation etc. focuses the mind to Him and lets the mind to keep focused on God; hence acts of worship. The INTENTION of all religious practice therefore is to commune with God! The more you remember God, the more He remember you and the more you may receive His grace which He bestows to His devotees.

 

The quantity for the acts of remembrance is not confined to a certain amount of time, although there are minimum amount of time we are obliged to do as the acts of prayers, but demands 24 hours of worship from the REAL devotee of God.

 

Now if you are with me, the whole difference between two Muslim persons, or two human beings for that matter, is the degree of their nearness to God! Our personal devotion and our sincere worship/lack of worship of Him varies from person to person. Our actions then, in the eyes of the Lord, puts us in different stages of merit in regard our nearness to Him. Analogically speaking the individual ends up in a position of merit in a spiral which has rings up ward. Remembrance of God gives us ascending effect in the spiral while forgeting God gives descending effect.

 

Therefore there can be no coherent convergence of view points possible between those higher in the spiral and those in the lower scales. Unless of course those in the lower scales of religious devotion are raised to higher station. Since , under the Divine Plan, the human being has to take part freely to be raised to higher station through personal devotion to God and worship, this difference persists.

 

I and you can exchange our personal understanding of the Truth but nothing more- just exchange. This personal thing of understanding limits everyone of us and puts barriers between us. We know that UNDERSTANDING IS ALWAYS PERSONAL ABILITY and no understanding CAN be forced upon another person.

 

 

I may also assert that the convergence you are seeking in Islam MAY be a wishful thinking from your side. My intuition tells me that differences will always remain. It is therefore logic that muslims would rather learn from one another in an atmosphere of trust, brotherhood and unity; And no one or group in the House of the Ummah acts self-righteous!

 

Now to your questions:

 

1) What is your interpretation of the term Ilah?

 

You,Nur, have answered this question many times. Here is one of your interpretations and I have nothing to add for the time being.

 

This is what you wrote:

 

But what does ILAAH mean.

 

The root meaning of the word ILAA caomes from the Arabic word (ALIHA) the masdar of this word means among others:

 

1. To seek a protection ( Like an infant seeks mother's love , wormth and protection)

2. To seek a rescuer ( in times of distress)

3. To seek the highest authority, no one scapes from ( Jurisdiction and Sovreighnty).

4. It meant leadership. ( ZACIIM UL QOWM)

5. Any thing one follows even desires is called ilaah

 

http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001938#000001

 

 

2)What is your interpretation of the term Ibaadah?

 

 

The word is used in the Quran contexts with three meanings.

 

1)worship

2)bondage

3)submission

 

It means hence that outwardly and inwardly our bondage, our submission, and our worship should all be for Allah, wholly and solely.

 

 

That is for now.

 

Thanks

 

The Awakaner2

[Nur]

Awakener brother

 

First of all let me assure you that I am not here to boast or display any amount of knowledge that i have, that will clearly beat the purpose for which I am here. I feel that i am here because I am seeking Allahs forgiveness through my work, and to be grateful for what he has bestowed upon me of the Nima ( goodness) of Al Islam, a great Nima, my slavation lies in sharing what i know, my doom is not doing so,. Allah SWT instructed his prophet SAWS to: " Say, No one will rescue me from Allah's ( wrath) and further, I will not find a refuge from him, unless I take up the responsibility of transmitting ( balaagh) of his messages ( to mankind)" In that sense, I am here for my own salvation.

 

Secondly walaal, as you have known me, an Alumni of Somalinet, I have tolerated all kinds of perverted views, yours have been the most respectable discussion that I have ever taken part of, and my record is that I allow all ideas unless they cross the decency level that we both agree on. So, a reader of your statement above may get the idea that i actually delete my oppnents points of view, which is not the case, may I therefore kindly ask you to remove it as to not to give wrong impression.

 

Thirdly, I read your entire piece, Wallahi, from the outset, i do not have any fundemental difference with what you have written, contrary to that notion, actually parts of what you have written are so true and good, I cloudnt agree more with you, and to that effect I have dedicated one of my eNuri topics.

 

You write:

 

Remembrance of God gives us ascending effect in the spiral while forgeting God gives descending effect.

 

Please read following link specially supporting your point:

 

http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002175

 

As for the rules of the discussion:

 

Because we have discussed before, each one of us knows the others point of view, which makes it easy this time round inshaAllah.

 

My main point is that Islam is a set of Information Allah sent through prophet Muhammad SAWS, and a set of requirements against these information.

 

So, If I answer your question, Muslim is an Arabic word from the root word, Salima, PEACE , Aslama, to SURRENDER, Muslim, therefore is a person who found PEACE by SURRENDERING to ALLAH, His maker.

 

Allah SWT says in Quraan : Wa Man Aslama Wajhahu lillah wa huwa muxsinun faqad istamska bil curwatil wuthqaa. Meaning, He who has surrendered his WAJHAHU ( Facing Allah For Devotion, love, obedience) Has indeed succeeded in holding to the unbreakable link with( Allah)

 

Allah SWT says, that unbreakable link is :

 

لا إكراه ÙÙŠ الدين قد تبين الرشد من الغي Ùمن يكÙر بالطاغوت ويؤمن بالله Ùقد استمسك بالعروة الوثقي لا انÙصام لها والله سميع عليم ].256 [البقرة:

 

No compulsion in Deen, ( Because) RUSHD, ( Rigt way) is now separate and clear as not to look like the GHAYY ( Wrong Way, lost way), so whoever distances himself from the KUFR which Rejection of RUSHD ( Right Way, and who instead believes in Allah's (WAY, Right DEEN), then that person has a good grip on the unbreakable knot ( Conection to Allah)

 

 

Explaining that unbreakable link Allah says:

 

وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا ÙÙÙŠ ÙƒÙلّ٠أÙمَّة٠رَّسÙولاً أَن٠اعْبÙدÙواْ اللّهَ وَاجْتَنÙبÙواْ الطَّاغÙوتَ ]ØŒ وقوله تعالى:

 

We have sent to every nation a Messenger to : 1. Worship Allah, and 2: Stay away from Daaghoot ( any authority, living or dead, human, or inanimate) that takes the place of Allah in people's lives to compete for their love, devotion, respect, search of security) that they can only get from Allah SWT.

 

So what is Daaghuut?

 

Daaghuut is a superlative word from Daghaa , when something exceeds their limits, high ocean waves are said to (Daghaa), so Daaghuut is someone who far exceeded its limits and threshhold. For any person, object to claim to be in the place of Allah SWT, is the worst excess in judgement or limits, thus Allah SWT warned against Daaghuut, as a matter of fact, the rejection of Daaghuut is condutional to accepting Allah, anyone who has not rejected the Daaghuut, his iman is not aaccepted by Allah, because, you can not fill milk in a cup half filled with alcohol, takhliya, qabla taxliyah, one must evacuate their hearts from Daaghuut before attaching to that unbrekable bond of Allah SWT.

 

Now, What does Al Curwatul Wuthqaa mean: That unbreakable bond, link with Allah is the eeverlasting word of Tawheed, No one is worthy to be taken in the place of Allah SWT, as a guardian, loved, protector, law giver, to be feared, to be given absolute obedience)

 

So, from the above we learn that:

 

1. A Muslim is a person who has SURRENDERED to Allah, willingly.

2. Who has rejected Daaghuut ( any form of object that takes space inour hearts reserved for Allah alone)

 

3. Follows ONLY Allah SWT, making his model ( Sunnah) the guidance of His Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

 

 

That is my resoponse for today, sorry of I got carried away, I am sure as a Sufi you understand what getting carried away means, no pun, waa kaftan walaal, no more.

 

 

Walaalkaa

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Dear borther Nur,

 

thanks for your lovely piece of writing. As always it is both informative and educational.

 

In my last posting I wrote: "If you are on the other hand interested to have genuine discussion without name calling or reverting to deleting postings/thread by using your administrator power........".

 

I'm taking back that statement brother! I confess that you have never deleted any posting/thread which I have written or called me names in this forum. My present allegations therefore do not ring true.

 

My apologies to you walaal.

 

I wish to request you to forgive me from deep in your heart.

 

Thanks.

 

The Awakener2

[Kashafa]

^^ Excellent interaction between you two, Please do continue this enlightening debate.

[Positive]

Nur,

 

Have you reservations to accept my apologies

brother ?

 

I will prefer to know.

 

The Awakener2

[Nur]

Positive Bro.

 

Subxaanallah, I dont deserve an apology walaal, it was a slip of the keyboard, we all make it, I jusr reminded you and I highly appreciate how gracefully you have explained, like they say, an admission of a mistake, is a sign of a great character, rest assured that i have more mistakes than you, and I likewise asky you to forgive me if my remarks were uncalled for, because when I am in the mood, I step over toes.

 

Allah SWT says in Quraan : Forgive and shake hands, dont you wish Allah to forgive you?

 

Now let us go back to our discussion, inshaAllah we shall focus one topic at a time. I invite you to select the topic and I will discuss it from my point of view, next, I will select the topic and you will respond, that way we can learn from each other.

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

First it is human nature to err. We should though always give thanks to God for whatever He has given us because all experiences are for the benefit of our Spiritual unfoldment. For example if we remained in the higher spheres in the beatitude of the Highest how would we then known the experiences of pain and suffering ?

 

Now that we have both declared our human nature of making mistakes and that we have forgiven one another I think we can proceed on.

 

Secondly you are the Sheikh in this forum Nur. You know me that in our discussions I usually run into a jungle of opinions and get lost.......and when I come back with what I found you may say "but this is food for the swine". Iskuma kaa dhererinayo laakiin waynu doodi karaa( I'm not measuring myself to you but we can debate).

 

Thirdly I accept you proposition.

 

You can continue with your last answer: Who is Muslim ?

 

further questions you can explore:

 

1) What conditions you have to fullfil to be a Muslim?

2) What nullifies to be muslim ?

3) Can a third person tell another person that he/she is NOT a muslim while the first person is claiming that he is muslim ?

 

Walaalkaa.

 

The Awakener

[Nur]

Awakener walaal

 

You write:

 

Who is Muslim ?

 

In the most general terms, everything in the heavens and earth are Muslims. Allah SWT after the creation asked : ( Itiyaa tawcan ow karhaa, qaalataa, ataynaa taaiciin) Meaning : Surrender willingly or unwillingly , they said we surrender willingly.

 

So, the heavens and the earth are Muslims ( surrendered), and they follow a law ( Sharia) so precise if the sun shifts centimeters, our electric bill for air conditioning or heating will skyrocket, earth and and sun are following the code of their creator, to give us sustanance, under unhospitable void of space.

 

Man on the otherhand, was given free will to choose, to either surrender or not to surrender, a person who surrendered has no choice over his affairs, that is why Allah refvers to everybody as a slave, a slave or a prisoner has no right to choose, they must hear and obey.

 

So, the realtionship has two ways:

 

1. From man to Allah is Tawajjuh, you seek Him. love him, and beacuse you truly love him, you obey him, it does not make sense to claim taht we love Allah and we disobey him or free ourselves from his worship.

 

2. From Allah to us, is two things:

 

a. Akhbaar, information that we should believe in order to:

b. Fulfil the Amr, His orders

 

If we asct on His orders as a sign of belief of his akhbaar ( info) relayed to us through our Prophet SAWS, then we have met the general requirements of a Muslim.

 

Now, by default, all humans are born Muslims, because they have taken a covenant with Allah SWT before incarnation,, that He is their Lord. It is only when they are embodied on earth that some will walk their talk and follow their fitrah (islam) and respond favorably to Islam as soon as ther hear its message like Deja vu, while others reject it as they favor this life more than promise life in hearafter. The Prophet SAWS, said that Allah said : I have created my servants Hunafaa ( seeking only Allah), then the Satans have got them lost"

 

Alllah also says: Wa low ittabaca al xaqu ahwaa'ahum, la fasadatil samaawaatu wal ard. Meaning : If the absolute (Justice, Truth) follows their( human) desires, The heavens and the earth would have been corrupted"

 

 

InshAllah, I will come back to:

 

1) What conditions you have to fullfil to be a Muslim?

2) What nullifies to be muslim ?

3) Can a third person tell another person that he/she is NOT a muslim while the first person is claiming that he is muslim ?

 

 

Nur

[Positive]

Thanks Nur,

 

I will be travelling to Somalia next week and will be there about four months. It may happen that I will have limited access to internet.

 

Now, if you wish, you can continue with the proposed topic by answering the specified questions or any other questions which you deem are appropriate. Certainly we will learn from you.

 

I in my part will try to be available for commnets or eventually any topic you suggest to me to take up.

 

Thanks

 

The awakener