Just Me And My Sufi Friend!

[Positive]

Your discussion with your Sufi friends came at a watershed when you asked:

 

Dear Brother Awakener

 

 

..............So when Mr. Al Hallaaj claimed that he is God, after he reached his state of TAJALLI, or the equivalent of the Hindu Nirvana, Mr. Al Hallaj was speaking on a higher level of awareness in your opinion and here is your response to me on this thread, which until now I have not read your answer as you promised; Here is a quote of your remark on al Al Hallajs claim to be the TRUTH or God :

 

 

" I will also discuss about dilemma of killing a religous person, even when the person utteres unreligious statements like Al-Hallaj who said in a trance state( I am not sure if he came out of the trance or was in that state when he uttered the words)

 

"Ana' al Haqq" -- "I Am The Truth"

 

 

So Brother Awakener, will you please enlighten us about the above statement? Or do you suggest that I look for a TEACHER to teach me this difficult concept?

 

Again, consider this discussion a search of truth, you either have it or don't, in which case you have to either share it or learn form those who respond.

 

 

Respectfully

 

Nur

 

 

Your Sufi friend answered:

 

 

 

Dear Nuur,

 

 

..........In a previous letter I explained the subject about Al Hallaaj, but for clarification I will reword it and add new material to that answer.

 

What I said was:

 

1."God is the creator of all creation. He is the SOURCE of every thing. He, God IS beyond his creation. His creation is not Him and He is not in his creation".

 

"The creator exists and creation is HIS game. His creation,is not HIM and they can not see him, hear him and or know him neither in INTTELLECT OR in OTHER MEANS".

 

"God exists ALONE in his ABODE".

 

"Therefore God is not part of the created universe "'

 

(That is the answer about the existence of God)

 

2."God in his abode is unmanifested, unknowable and unapproachable. It is beyond reach as I said before. When God manifests HIMSELF in the slightest degree we say THAT MANIFESTATION is from God. Other names are: the word of God, kelmullah, the spirit of God etc".

 

"In this stage manifestation needs a creator that CAN CREATE, PRESERVE AND DESTROY IT.

That creator is G O D ".

 

( ( Note: in this second stage there is PURE SPIRIT which is created by God)

 

 

"In this manifested state there is SOUND AND LIGHT to be seen, heard and known. Everthing in the universe is then Light and Sound. In its highest state this Spirit -or the light and sound -is unpersonal and universal. In its lowest state it takes seemingly different forms and gives different sounds".

 

"Therefore Soul which is the highest one IS is light and Sound and is part of Spirit in Its highest state. It is pure and unpersonal. In our lower state we are formed from this light and sound , have mind feeling and body. We are PERSONS IN THE LOWER STATE called for example, The awakener".

 

"When Al Hallaaj is conscious of himself in his HIGHEST state of Soul which is unpersonal, then it is natural that he expresses what he knows in that state".

 

"In that Soul state he is unpersonal and conscious part of the universe.THE CREATED UNIVERSE IS ONE WITH HIM(Al Hallaaj ) AND HE IS THE UNIVERSE".( (Note in here that in my previous reply what I said in the sentence with the Block letters)

 

No one: Neither Al hallaaj or any other, can become one with God. That is impossible! But we as a SOUL can experience oneness with the SPIRIT of God which is created state!

 

Learning the wisdom of God through SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES HAS IT'S LOOP HOLES. The knowledge comes in stages the same way it does here. Even in that advanced state of being we make mistakes. Life isabout continous learning in here and hereafter.

 

Conclusion: According to my understanding Al Hallaaj made a mistake if he thought that he was one with God !

 

There is though difficult question which I have not answered clearly : the RELATIONSHIP OF GOD AND SPIRIT. Such a knowledge about the relationship of the Spirit and God can be gained Only through contemplation and seclusion !

 

What I did not agree and never agree is that the BLIND meaning those who have not had SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE should have authority over those who have gained a higher station through their religious endeavor, and by the grace of God are given rare Spiritual experiences.

 

For me Al Hallaaj was killed by menn who had less SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE compared to him.

 

They did not let God do justice but they took the law into their hands. IT WAS NOT NECCESSARY !

 

That was the point I was making when I SEEMINGLY defended Al Hallaaj! .............

 

The awakener

 

 

Those last discussions we indeed deep and worth, with our devotion to God, to be contemplated with !

 

Positive

[Nur]

Dear Positive

 

You write:

 

"For me Al Hallaaj was killed by menn who had less SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE compared to him."

 

 

Could it be that Al Hallaaj's killers had their own SPIRITUAL EXPIRIENCE?

 

Nur

[Nur]

I am reposting this thread dialogue for Hamza Yussuf posted by S.Lander, who wanted to know about Sufism regarding the Hamza Yususf discussion thread. The awakener, my discussion partner an excellent debator and myself delve into the Sufi world and thinking, here are some food for thought.

 

 

enjoy

 

 

Nur

[Mutakalim]

علم التصو٠علم ليس يدركه

 

إلا أخو Ùطنة بالحـق معـروÙ

 

وكي٠يعرÙÙ‡ من ليس يشهـده

 

وكي٠يشهد ضوء الشمس مكÙÙˆÙ

 

The knowledge of gnosis is not abstract, rather it is existential. Any mortal can engage in mental meanderings and juridical joustings; however, it takes a 'Arif to see the world as it really is.

 

Postive (Awakener) has given a superb albiet rudimentary treatment of this subject.

 

With Salaams

PK

[Muhammad]

Asalamu Alaykum,

 

after reading this amazing conversation, I came to one understanding;

 

I. The Sunnah Path - A Man(soul) on Horse(body) Travelling from(This World) to(Jannah in Aakhirah), he Submits and Organizes all his efforts and resources in reaching this destination; This is Ibaadah:

 

"Ascertaining what Allaah and His Messenger love and are pleased with, from [1] the sayings of the heart and [ii] of the tongue; and [iii] the actions of the heart and [iv] of the limbs."

 

- to finish this journey one needs guidance as Nur said:

I have restrained myself with Sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammad SAWS. I therefore found in the Sunnah a balance between my deep spiritualism and realism.

Alhamdulillah, with Quraan as my manual, and the Sunnah as my steering, Taqwah my mantle, Dhiker my security and struggle with my own nafs-al ammaara bil soo, as my vocation, I can barely see the light of the siraatul Mustaqeem. It beats me to understand how others cruise these rough waters without such an arrangement.

II. The Suffi(Modern) Path - due to their extensive "Soul Travelling", it seems to me where they have gone wrong is they have neglected the purpose and destination of this Journey. the Ronins amongst us.

 

Instead of focusing on the goal, keeping their eyes on the price, moving forward, they have tied their horse(body) to tree, and spent their energy wandering the world which they were leaving. this is a wasted energy.

 

How many 'soul Travellers' spent many hours wandering and missed their Salah or Fast?

 

"Hacking the Human"

 

the Hacker - Shaytan and his Alliance(including humans)

 

the Target - the Qalb - the maindrive center of the human, and his/her highest possession in this universe.

 

the Mission - change and alter the course and the destination of the human, from Jannah(Ibaadah) to Naar(Kufr).

 

"Protection from this Hacker"

 

download -

 

The Quraan - your Manual to the body mind and soul.

 

The Sunnah - your friendly guide to understanding the Manual.

 

Tawheed - your access to the Source of Infinite knowledge and wisdom. Allah(swt)

 

Salah - your connection to the Source, without it you can't send(ajar) or recieve(rahman) from the source

 

Sawm(fast) - your payment to the source, refreshes and defragments the maindrive(Qalb)

 

Taqwa - your Nurwall(firewall) against all hackers and evil attackers. your protection(castle) of the Qalb(maindrive).

 

Dhiker - your anti-waswaas(virus), kills viruses, worms, trojans and all waswaas of the Hacker (Alias Shaytan)

 

now if the human neglects any one of these softwares, he is vurnable to the Hackers, and loosing control of His or Her maindrive - thus unable to reach his/her destination.

 

This is a Trap that most "Soul Travellers" have Fallen into!

 

may Allah(swt) guide us all and submit our Qalb to His Diin(way). Amiin!

 

Abdullah Ibn Masood narrated, "The Messenger of Allah (S) drew a line for us and then said, ‘This is Allah’s Straight Path.’ Then he drew lines to its right and left, then he said,

‘These are paths, upon every one of them there is a devil calling towards it.’

(Ahmad)

 

Then he (Muhammad (S)) recited (from the Qur’an (what means)):

"Verily this is My Straight path, so follow it and follow not (other) paths, they will separate you away from His path. This He has ordained for you that you may become pious." (Al-Anam 6:153)

Da‘iya Nur, your calling people to the Path of Allah(swt), may Allah reward you and keep you on Siraat al-mustaqeem. amin

[Positive]

Nur,

 

Your discussion with your "Sufi" brother were educational as well as confrontational in many aspects. Following are more postings of your discussions. One of the touchy topics was when Awakener came with the postulate/assertion ( you can read it below) that everything in our physical universe are created from and share common denominators which are LIGHT AND SOUND. That they are in ESSENCE ONE !

 

My question is after three years, How would you react to the above assertion ?

 

For the readers here are more postings of the discussion between the Nur and his " Sufi" friend.

 

The " Sufi" friend:

 

Dear brother Nuur,

 

You know that in this forum we can make hints and discuss simple question. Certain things are difficult if not impossible to discuss in detail both because of shortage of space or the avaible time we have.

 

It seems to me that our discussion is becoming more intellectual and it may become difficult for the DRIVERS to learn from it.

 

We should give priority to this group whom I wrote with the block letters 'Therefore I will recommend that you continue to teach us about the ways of the Sunnis- if you would prefer that.

 

I have nothing to teach! Those who want to learn the ways of the Sufis can be responsible for themselves and approach a Sufi teacher. I won't be responsible for them. EVERYONE IN HIS/HER SOUND MIND HAS TO LEARN TO BECOME RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS/HER ACTIONS

 

As the intermarriage between the Sufi and Hinduism and Budhism, it is my understanding that it is the last two religions in the east that have accomadated the first. This two religions beleive that all religions are from the same SOURCE- God, and( that) every religious person, prophet or master recieves or has recieved his/her knowledge (religious) from SAME SOURCE.

 

Therefore they usually do not discriminate between a holy Sufi master and Hindu/budhist master or even a christian priest. It may seem wrong but this is their( chosen) way of trying to come back to God. They use all means that are available to them in order to escape more reincartions into this Life.

 

On the contrary the Sufi masters adhere to their religious teaching and have been missionaries spreading the word of God.It is therefore there are now over 160 million muslim in Pakistan and Indian sub-continent.

 

It is not unusual for the Sufi masters to employ creative methods so that the message can reach the masses, for example songs and drams etc.

 

An overview of "Universal Sufism"Dr. H. J. Witteveen is probably written for the Indian and/or western audience. The writter has formulated to spread the message of God in a way that can attract the masses he is living in or those he will reach with his pen'

 

That may explain why you disagree with him. The introduction is not intentionally written for the traditional Muslim audience.

 

There were many other Sufi masters who lived or are living in the Islamic communities who have written extensively about Islam ,as you also have mentioned som of them in this series, and their message which is intended to the Muslim audience is uplifting and knowledgable Islamic.

 

I won't discuss here about God and his relationship with his creation and neither defend or discredit the thesis of the The author of "Universal Sufism", Dr. H. J. Witteveen. It is difficult subject to take up.

 

I mean the question: is God present and permeates his creation or is He in HIS ABODE AND RULES FROM THERE is difficult question to discuss in a forum.

 

It is neither usefull to the others nor is there a space or time here to take up this question'

 

We can discuss though about what the sensery organs tell us about the physical reality around us including our body(physical):

 

The question:are physical forms we see including you and me and everything else separate, or are they one energy manifesting as the many ?

 

I will also discuss about dilemma of killing a religous person, even when the person utteres unreligious statements like Al-Hallaj who said in a trance state( I am not sure if he came out of the trance or was in that state when he uttered the words)

 

"Ana' al Haqq" -- "I Am The Truth"

 

1.The unity of the physical universe

 

If we begin our physical reality from the space that we see with our eyes, the space is not empty, but is filled with subatomic particles and the fundamental forces of nature .

 

There are already many enerigies known to science for which we have no perceptual organ. for example the electromagnetic spectrum of radio waves, x-rays etc.

 

In certain space locations though the energy that occupies the space forms a spining vortex. This vortex patterns, manifests the properties of mass, solidity and gravitation, electrical charge etc. Such a vortex is SUBATOMIC PARTICLE, THE BUILDING BLOCK OF OUR PHYSICAL UNIVERSE.

 

Everything in our physical reality which our five sensry organs can feel consists of subatomic particles and forces between them connect/permeate the subatomic particles.

 

In conventional quatum physics, this fundeamental forces are seen as interactions involving the momentary existence and exchange of virtual particles. Physicists tell us that if all the subatomic particles comprising our earth were compressed so that no space or vacuum existed between them, they would take up no volum than a pin head or medium size orange '

 

That means that the observable objects consist of widely spaced spining vortices of energy- subatomic particles. This vortices are automatically wired together by the forces of natur which are thought to be four, which are themselves interrelated. The forces are electromagnetic, the gravitational, the weak and the strong forces.

 

Therefore in the more conventional concepts of modern physics everything is REDUCED TO THE EXISTENCE OF PARTICLES.

 

The physical reality including me, you, every reader of this posting and posting itself is an interconnected energy with matrix patterned into different ways.

 

This patterning of the matrix into differents forms and vibrational levels creates the ILLUSSION of both separateness and form.

 

According to this scientific thesis everything is ENERGY. Matter is also a CONDENSED energy.

 

ENERGY IS ONE AND EVERYTHING IS ENERGY. THEREFORE THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF ENERGY.

 

May be this is what The author of "Universal Sufism", Dr. H. J. Witteveen is refering to, not only in physical level but in higher levels of our beingness ALSO'

 

As said I cannot discuss about the higher levels.

 

In my second posting I will discuss about the dilemma of killing others because of disagreeing with them in regard to their statements or believes.

 

Bye bye all of you

 

The awakener

[Positive]

Continuation of the discussion between Nur and the " Sufi" friend:

 

 

Nurs answer:

 

Dear Awakener

 

This is indeed an interesting topic for me and a great silent majority who are following this discourse with interest, so let us tackle one issue at a time. Please let us be direct in our answers so that it becomes worth our while.

 

Witteveen has hit upon some fundamental beliefs of the Sufi orders, and your response to his article caught me off guard, so before I make my conclusions, I need to confirm your beliefs so that we will discuss according to your understanding of the issue. So let us either confirm or deny if you have the same belief as below.

 

1. The unity of the Universe ( Wixdatul Wujuud) which means that God is one and everything in the universe is part of God as God is the only reality that exist.

 

So according to this theory, worshipping Jesus as God becomes understandable, also The Hindu Deities who are many become reasonable including some Hindu Sects who worship women's private parts as the God of Life.

 

2. Sufism is Universal, Meaning , Muslim Sufi, and Hindu Sufi, or a Christian Sufi are all in the right path to God as long as they all love God and worship their respective ways.

 

3. A person who claims to be God. Like Al Hallaaj, as a result of the above logic, should not be deemed Murtad, an apostate because he has a different point of view of Islam, and killing him is wrong.

 

Do you agree with the above statements, if not where do you disagree, please clarify.

 

For brevity and clarity I have keep the list short this time hoping that you will answer my concerns with straight forward answers, and hopefully short as the attention span of the majority of viewers is relatively short.

 

 

Nur

 

The answer of the " Sufi":

 

Dear Nuur,

 

Regardless of what I answer you will have more questions to ask. That is the way of the mind not spirit. Soul can directly know things without the use of other instruements ' If we have to learn from one another we have to learn to use the powers of Soul' Not mind as we are doing now.

 

I did not want to answer this questions but let me try- ONLY this time

 

1.God is the creator of all creation. He is the SOURCE of every thing. He, God IS beyond his creation. His creation is not Him and He is not in his creation.

 

The creator exists and creation is HIS game.

His creation,is not HIM and they can not see him, hear him and or know him neither in INTTELLECT OR in OTHER MEANS.

 

God exists ALONE in his ABODE.

 

Therefore God is not part of the created universe '

 

2. When we are speaking about a Islamic school of thought like the Sufis or others, they have to believe and act upon the ARKAANNUL ISLAAM WAL ARKAANU IMAAN. Their deeds must be based on the Quran and Sunna.

 

Therefore there cannot be christian Sufis and hindu Sufis who are muslims also.

 

If such exists then they deviated from Islam and are other religious organisations but have similarities with Islam.

 

Baha'i and Ahmedia are world religions now which have out grown from Islam. They do not claim that they are Muslims But they feel that they share commom cultural and religious back ground with their muslim brothers.

 

Therefore the write path of the muslims are clear and anyone who is not following that right path is wrong - for the MUSLIMS.

 

3.God in his abode is unmanifested, unknowable and unapproachable. It is beyond reach as I said before. When God manifests HIMSELF in the slightest degree we say THAT MANIFESTATION is from God. Other names are: the word of God, kelmullah, the spirit of God etc.

 

In this stage manifestation needs a creator that CAN CREATE, PRESERVE AND DESTROY IT.

That creator is G O D '

 

In this manifested state there is SOUND AND LIGHT to be seen, heard and known. Everthing in the universe is then Light and Sound. In its highest state this Spirit -or the light and sound -is unpersonal and universal. In its lowest state it takes seemingly different forms and gives different sounds.

 

Therefore Soul which is the highest one IS is light and Sound and is part of Spirit in Its highest state. It is pure and unpersonal. In our lower state we are formed from this light and sound , have mind feeling and body. We are PERSONS IN THE LOWER STATE called for example, The awakener.

 

When Al Hallaaj is conscious of himself in his HIGHEST state of Soul which is unpersonal, then it is natural that he expresses what he knows in that state.

 

In that Soul state he is unpersonal and conscious part of the universe. The created universe is one with him and he is the universe.

 

Therefore he knows HIMSELF as the spirit and only speaks as IT. But when he comes down to human level then he becomes aware of the contents of his personality and becomes limited like all of us in that state. He has name, a family, a geographical location he lives in and has a RELIGION.

 

IN THE UNIVERSAL HE HAS NON OF THIS '

 

Conclusion: one has to be careful if one has not the ability to raise himself to Soul level and can not view Life from that stage. One is helplessly limited when Soul is confined in the MIND AND BODY and uses it as a VEHICLE.

 

As for Al Hallaaj, could those who killed him raise themselves to Soul level ? No '

Why couldn't they let God do justice ?

 

They where (probably) ignorant,mindless and limited humans who could not know better '

 

God does justice. It is better that we do our duties as we know them and let him make JUSTICE. That is the solution.

 

 

The awakener

[Positive]

Continuation..........

 

Nur postes:

 

Dear Awakener

 

I find you very elusive, and evasive. I beg you to stop levitating and hovering over my head, as I am getting dizzy trying to catch your soul and force it to obey the power of reason.

 

You write " If we have to learn from one another we have to learn to use the powers of Soul' Not mind as we are doing now."

 

Your above statement in which you have depicted the mind as an ineffective tool to grasp reality has further confused me about your beliefs. As a substitute to the mind, you have suggested the soul as the sole instrument to peek into the realms of reality.

 

But, as a person who is confined in the physical three dimensional world and time on one hand and who is confined by Quraan and Hadeeth as the only probes to peek into reality around and beyond me, I have to admit humbly, that my knowledge of the soul is as limited as Allah SWT said in the Quraan ( Say, the Ruux (Knowledge of the soul) is a matter reserved for my lord).

 

And for that reason, I would be leery about any person who claims to have found the secret of the soul from sources beyond the Quraan and Hadeeth which have left few traces of knowledge about the soul in this regard.

 

 

The second statement which seems that you are not coming forward for your beliefs about the Universality of Sufism, was vividly transparent when you suggested that there can be more than one truth,

 

You Wrote : "

 

Therefore the write path of the muslims are clear and anyone who is not following that right path is wrong - for the MUSLIMS"

 

Suggesting one truth for Muslims and another for the non Muslims, which is contrary to Islamic belief that there is only one truth, and that is Islam as relayed by Muhammad SAWS in his last message which makes all other religions and faiths obsolete and not acceptable in the eyes of Allah SWT. ( And whoever seeks other than Islam as a faith, it will not be accepted from him)

 

 

You also wrote :

 

" The creator exists and creation is HIS game.

His creation,is not HIM and they can not see him, hear him and or know him neither in INTTELLECT OR in OTHER MEANS. "

 

The last part of your response contradicted your earlier confirmation that Allah SWT is NOT part of his creatures ( Mubaayen), which is the right belief, and that Allah and his creatures are separate.

 

 

By Justifying what Al Hallaaj said that HE IS THE XAQQ ( ABSOLUTE TRUTH) as a higher form of thinking. You have aligned yourself with someone whose beliefs are not in line with Sunnah as you have claimed earlier.

 

You Write in this regard :

 

" .When Al Hallaaj is conscious of himself in his HIGHEST state of Soul which is unpersonal, then it is natural that he expresses what he knows in that state"

 

 

So you are either telling the truth by justifying his action, or you told the truth when you said that Sufism is dependent on Quraan and Sunnah for guidance. But you can not be truthful on both statements.

 

 

Again, excuse me, I forgot that I am reasoning by using my mind, which is unacceptable to you as you only rely on the soul as your instrument for guidance.

 

Nur

 

 

The Awakeners answers:

 

 

Brother Nuur,

 

I am not contradicting myself. This topic is in reality difficult one. I was reluctant to answer your questions but I have been frank to answer them anyway.

 

The reason that it seems for you that I am contradicting myself is that we lack, may be , common conceptual understanding about this subjects or common shared experiences. This makes the communication impossible !

 

The statement" spiritualize your consciousness" or even the " The Spirit of God", have probably different meaning for us. You can explain them in Somali if you will '

 

Now we can not speak or know God except His attributes. This is true of Soul also.

 

The Sufi teachers usually do not answer question as I did. In order to understand something of spiritual nature they recommend that the seeker, after he learned the word of God in Quran and Hadith on the subject, goes to seclusion and find the answer HIMSELF.

 

There is no spoon feeding.

 

I personally recommend the following:

 

a) if you think that mystical experience is unattainable for you -reader- you can be your self and do what ever else you prefer '

 

b)if you are interested about the mystical experience:

 

1. Find the spacific aspect/question that you want to know more about.

 

2. Study the Quran and Hadith and find out how the message of God answers from that question.

 

3.In the evening before you sleep find a time and place(regular) where you can be ALONE about half an hour.

 

4.Repeat one of the names of God or another verse(s) which can bring peace to you and make you love God- and his creation. The feeling of love is a crucial aspect that one needs in this moments of SECLUSION-or in his life. For example you can repeat " Laa ilaaha illaah wa Moxamadun rasuula laah". Continue to repeat while opening at the same time submiting your will to the DIVINE WILL.

 

5.After twenty minutes stop, contemplate about the question or the aspects of life you want to know more about.

 

6. After the half hour, if nothing is happening, stop your contemplation and go to sleep.

 

7. In your night sleep, be aware of your dreams, and see if you meet any historical religious persons like the prophet(Peace be upon him) or angelic beings.One can get answers in that way.

 

8.Do not neglect your religious duties. purify self by abstening from evil and evil intentions. Learn in your daily life to be kind and compassionate to the other families of Life.

 

The above technique is not PRESCRIPTION but SUGGESTION.

 

The best solution to the search of mystical experience is to find a TEACHER who is adept in the mystical ways and can help you.

 

I request you brother Nour that you should not ask me any more questions about this subject.

 

I love everyone as my Soul brother and Sister.

 

The awakener

 

 

Positive

[S.O.S]

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MOST GRACIOUS, MOST MERCIFUL.

 

Our suufi brother writes:

 

“1. Find the spacific aspect/question that you want to know more about.â€

 

â€2. Study the Quran and Hadith and find out how the message of God answers from that question.â€

 

“7. In your night sleep, be aware of your dreams, and see if you meet any historical religious persons like the prophet(Peace be upon him) or angelic beings.One can get answers in that way.â€

 

This implicates any other contradictive statements, but we could also derive some “unconscious†underlying sentiments. The most lethal one is when the above quotations are combined. You hve to make up your mind!.......either the Quraan and the Sunnah are enough for guidance or they are not enough and Islaam is not complete. It is disingenuous for our brother suufi to use Quraan and Xaddiis in this context and to suggest at the same time not to rely on them until you humm before you slepp for 25 minutes, then get the true answers and guidance when you “meet any historical religious persons like the prophet(Peace be upon him) or angelic beings†in your sleep!

 

 

The above quotations from our brother will guarantee one a successful backdoor entrances into the tormenting punishments of hellfire!!!..........

 

How can you pretend to be receiving answers from the Prophet (peace be upon him) or angels while all the answers and guidance is completed, the angels did their parts in transmitting and our Prophet (peace be upon him) did his part of conveying Allah’s message to its fullness?.................Is our Diin not complete?

 

Although shaytan cannot take appearance of our Prophet (peace be upon him) even (especially) in dreams, one cannot know whether its shaytan unless you have seen him while alive, and since our suufi brother or any other suufi are not of the companions, they don’t know that they’re being tricked, therefore one should only follow our Prophet (peace be upon him) the way his companions did and understood his teachings.

The same is true for the angels where shaytan will play tricks pretending to be an angel in ones dreams in order to mislead one.

 

One needs to realise that we cannot go into details about the suufi claims on matters of Ruux, Qalb, Caql and Nafs, for many reasons, needlessly to underline them all here, but what I know so far: SUFISM is closer to the Hollywood movie The MATRIX that it is to the teachings of ISLAM.

[Positive]

Soul brothers and sisters

 

I will make it clear for all and everyone that The Awakener was/is my username in Somalinet. I am the Awakener, the "sufi" friend of Nur!

 

Nur

 

About your question quote "Could it be that Al Hallaaj's killers had their own SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE"?

 

My answer is yes they Could. God being merciful and compassionate can by His Grace grant spiritual experiences to EVEN ( SEEMINGLY) MOST lowly and unreligious person. Who can deny that ! God the omnipotent does what He wishes, when wishes. That is His right and His ONLY.

 

What we know though is that Al Hallaaj in a state of (Divine) intoxication expressed his experience in words. The other persons you are referring to, according to my knowledge, have not in explicit told us about their spiritual(personal) experiences. Therefore they could, but I don't know. Please enlighten us if you can.

 

 

Mutakallim:

 

Thanks for your comments. I like your words, quote "Any mortal can engage in mental meanderings and juridical joustings; however, it takes a 'Arif to see the world as it really is".

 

Salax u Diin

 

Thanks also for your comments but when you say:

 

The suffi(Modern) Path - due to their extensive "Soul Travelling", it seems to me where they have gone wrong is they have neglected the purpose and destination of this Journey. the Ronins amongst us.

 

Instead of focusing on the goal, keeping their eyes on the price, moving forward, they have tied their horse(body) to tree, and spent their energy wandering the world which they were leaving. this is a wasted energy".

 

How many 'soul Travellers' spent many hours wandering and missed their Salah or Fast

?

 

I do not understand your proposition ! Your above proposition, according to my understanding, can be true for an individual sufi person. But it IS not true for Sufism as a school of Thought in Islam. How many adherents of the Sunni school of thought do neglect their religious obligations?

 

It is my understanding that there is danger when we prefer to generalize. It is not ALSO USEFUL to dissect Islam into parts: Sunni, Sufi, Shi'a etc.We should rather embrace Islam as a WHOLE. Nevertheless the teaching ALL these groups share and EMBRACE IS ISLAM.

 

LOVE IS THE KEY WORD. CAN WE NOT LOVE THE SUFIS AS MUCH AS WE LOVE THE AHLUL SUNNAH WAL JAMMACA OR THE SHI'A?

 

The polarity here is: Unity versus division. I prefer the UNITY.

 

Finger pointing is never useful. But tolerance and LOVE are useful qualities which makes the family, religion and the world to endure in ALL times !

 

Shams-ud-Din

 

 

The state of mind for the most of us in the most of the time is clouded and is full of worldly passions. Unless the mind is stilled and rid off with its passions it cannot clearly reflect and understand the wisdom of God as it is contained in the Quran and Sunnah.

 

My propositions are to do with the PURIFICATION OF THE MIND.Just use the search engine and read more about the subject: The purification of the Self.

 

I respect those who believe that they do not need purification or that mind is perfect and its judgements are lasting.

 

As whether my discourses will "guarantee one a successful backdoor entrances into the tormenting punishments of hellfire!!!.........."

 

I think your statement is too bold for a human being to utter ! Is it God or us who passes judgement over our actions?

 

One last statement: Our Diin is complete but it is our mind that is limited. That is why we disagree even in matters that have little significance.

 

Thanks all of you

 

The awakener

[Khalaf]

Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said "Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked, 'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."

 

Who are the companions-They are Muslims not Sufi, Sunni, Shia, Just Muslims. Qu'ran and Sunnah Alone. Thats my two cents, continue with the debate. Peace

[Darqawi]

Can The Sheikh Honor this crowd at Somaliaonline. We like to debate with him

 

Salam,

 

Currently, Shaykh Abdal Qadir as-Sufi is living in Cape Town, South Africa and you are more than welcome to go and sit at his feet, with proper Adab, and ask him like a proper student.

[Darqawi]

Edited

[Nur]

Darqawi

 

Sit at Sheikhs feet is AADAAB? Where in Quraan and Sunnah do you derive that ritual brother, And what made the Sheikh so qualified to have people he never met at his feet?

 

Did you really do that as one of his Mureeds? washed his feet and drank the water for blessing to really become one of the Al Khaas cartegory? Enlighten us Brother, this crowd is so thirsty for knowledge, and to hear about your Sheikh and his students. This will be very interesting.

 

 

Nur

[Khayr]

علم التصو٠علم ليس يدركه

 

إلا أخو Ùطنة بالحـق معـروÙ

 

وكي٠يعرÙÙ‡ من ليس يشهـده

 

وكي٠يشهد ضوء الشمس مكÙÙˆÙ

 

The knowledge of gnosis is not abstract, rather it is existential. Any mortal can engage in mental meanderings and juridical joustings; however,

it takes a 'Arif to see the world as it really is.

 

Nicely put by Mutakalim

 

By the way, where is he?