Just Me And My Sufi Friend!

[Nur]

Viking Bro

 

You write:

 

"You said that they were 'two faces of the same entity', which one of the two will be held accountable or will both be held accountable for sins committed? And lastly...what is the fourth dimension according to Islam? "

 

 

Brother, The Nafs, is linked to lowly desires, earthily yearning and negative influence that is attracted by satan to miguide us. The Ruux, on the other hand is the virtual empowerement fo the bodily functions more concerned with the mechanical aspects of our functions than the logical side, which is the domain of the Nafs.

 

Therefore, the Nafs is where blame will reisde as we will cry in the day of Judgement, NAFSII NAFSII, but never RUUXII, RUUXII.

 

 

I am not quite sure of what you mean by the fourth dimension, but in Islam we have the phyisical with al its four dimensions, 3+ time, as a single dimension, then there is another Ghaib, dimension, which is where heaven and hell lie, and all others like angels and Jinn.

As an astronomy hobbyist, i read many articles from islamic points of view and secular, and each article reenforces my iimaan, Alhamdulillah.

 

 

Tamina sis

 

you write:

 

" My question is: You've extensively elaborated on the describtion of Nafs and Ruux. How does Qalb(Heart) fit into the scheme of things?

 

Shukran. "

 

 

My Dear sis

 

The Qalb in the Islamic literature is the home of love, love of Allah SWT which is the essence of warship, the Qalb, can rust with sins, which makes its lenses represent facts in a skewed way, so a person who sins too much, his Qalb becomes like an upside down cub, mirroring only the wrong things and enjoying evil.

 

On the other hand, if one workd to purify their Qalb, it shines Love of Allah, and their outlook in oife is filled with tolerance, patience, benevolence, piety, and diligent work to please Allah SWT by doing the right things of Tawheed, and doing them right by Sunnah.

 

Tamina, sis, you touched my " watar al 7assaas" the qalb is a topic that I like to write about more and more, but today I am in a hurry.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

Nur,

Thanks sxb for your reply. The fourth dimension was the Ghaib. Could you talk about it a bit more detailed?

[Nur]

Viking Bro.

 

I am crtain of your firm belief in ghaib, and the fact that the ghaib is in Allah's sphere of knwoledge, but for the sake of this discussion, I can talk about my ignorance in this area.

 

You see Viking, I thnak Allah SWT for giving me an unwavering firm belief in the Ghaib, wallahi bro. I live with the imagination of the ghaib specially the transition to the next life and the reception at the grave by the angels.

 

Since imagination is free, I freely indulge in journeys to the other worlds, and if you have ever read my article on " All in a day, in a place far away" you can grasp how I carry myself through that fourth dimension.

 

In the past, I have experienced several metaphyisical encounters that I cannot explain, I have seen things that look like humans going through walls, I have heard someone I know asking me for help in my quasi dream, later that person confirmed that they were in need for me to help, my dreams are mostly about flying like a bird, gliding in space, I can fly and fly looking down on neighborhoods I used to live in, a very enjoyable experience, all locked up in th ghaib. Can I explain dreams, or how I glide in my sleep, no, only Allah SWT can explain, but I am amazed, I am so ignorant.

 

 

Nur

 

I

[StarGazer]

Facinating.....am a very imaginative person as well. Infact, most times I remember my dreams vividly...good or bad. I wonder if we can control our dreams if we attempt (just a crzy thought). On the subject metaphysical encounters, do you think some people are more receptive of it than others?

 

 

Jazakallah for the response. If u could add more on the subject of qalb later on, I'd appreciate it.

[JustCause]

Originally posted by Nur:

 

I am not quite sure of what you mean by the fourth dimension, but in Islam we have the phyisical with al its four dimensions, 3+ time, as a single dimension, then there is another Ghaib, dimension, which is where heaven and hell lie, and all others like angels and Jinn.

 

Nur

Nur where does it say in Islam we have four dimensions-- three space and one of time, known as spacetime? What I am trying to say here is be careful in what you say, cause the idea of spacetime was put forward by Einstein in his theory of special relativity. The theory does show how time is another dimension, by linking object’s speed through time just as we can link an object’s speed through space. When an object/particle moves through space relative to us, its clocks runs slow compared to ours. In other words, they age less than we do!

 

Today however, we believe there might be more than four dimensions. According to string theory there are nine space dimension and one of time-- in total 10 spacetime, beat that! What I am trying to say here, don’t say there are only four spacetime dimension unless you are 100% sure that Islam says so—I am not so sure Islam says there are only four dimensions.

 

The idea of more than four dimensions has been around since 1920s. The Polish mathematician Theodor Kaluza put it forward in 1919 when he sent a paper to Einstein in which he suggested he could unify Einstein’s general theory of relativity and Maxwell’s electromagnetic theory into a single theory provided there were more than three spatial dimensions. At first, Einstein was not convinced of the idea and discouraged Kaluza from publishing. However, two years later Einstein wrote back to Kaluza saying, ‘I am having second thoughts about having restrained you from publishing your idea on unification of gravitation and electricity two years ago. . . . If you wish, I shall present your paper to the academy after all.’ As approvals go in the field of physics, there is nothing higher than your paper being accepted by the man himself!

 

The need for extra dimensions and why we don’t experience or sense these extra dimensions is a subject on it is own right. Nevertheless, it will suffice to say, extra dimensions cure negative probabilities and it redistricts the probability range to between 0-1 in our theories! Thus, extra dimensions seem to be imposed on us by nature and why this is the case, nobody knows. On the other hand, the reason why we don’t experience these extra dimensions is because they are very very small— maybe in the region of Planck length i.e. 10^-32 cm!

 

After all of the above ranting Nur, my central message is, there is a very good chance that there are more than four dimensions and as such, it would be foolish to say Islam says there are only four. My understanding of Ghaib is the unknown and it doesn’t mean is a dimension.

 

On the question of soul, well I believe the soul is nothing but a command/order of God and we know nothing of it. However, one thing I am sure of is not what Plato thought it was, that the soul was lying in some cookie jar and waiting for a body. Having said that I don’t know what it is and anything I might say here is just speculation and hence I will end this rant with the following verse from the Koran.

 

[17.85] And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is one of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little.

 

P.S. Is it the heart or the brain, which believes? This question has been fascinating for sometime now and I personally believe is the brain! Having said that, I am more than happy to hear what others think.

[Nur]

Q

 

You write:

 

" Nur where does it say in Islam we have four dimensions-- three space and one of time, known as spacetime? What I am trying to say here is be careful in what you say, cause the idea of spacetime was put forward by Einstein in his theory of special relativity. The theory does show how time is another dimension, by linking object’s speed through time just as we can link an object’s speed through space. When an object/particle moves through space relative to us, its clocks runs slow compared to ours. In other words, they age less than we do!

"

 

Answer:

 

" I excuse you for a hasty judgement of a passage I wrote, after reading your piece which veered off from the focus on the soul and the Ghaib, to a side issue of physical dimensions and space time theories that attempt to profile them and describe their relationship with the observed natural phenomenae.

 

 

Here is what I wrote: " I am not quite sure of what you mean by the fourth dimension, but in Islam we have the phyisical with al its four dimensions, 3+ time, as a single dimension, then there is another Ghaib, dimension, which is where heaven and hell lie"

 

The answer was for a writer who asked specifically about the Soul and hence inquired if it has to do with a Fourth Dimension, my answer was not to delve into a special area in theoretical physics and its accompanying K-Theory of non commutative Geometry in search of a quantum geometry, neither was my response about Super String Theory and the on going reserach on Cohomology mathematical tools that are employed for that quest.

 

My response in laymans langauage said that In Islam, the seen and observed natural world around us known in Quraan as DUNYA is composed of the the space and time, if a final dimension existed which the enquirer referred to us the fourth, I said it is the Ghaib, which Allah alone holds the keys to its myteries.

 

The Ghaib is the unknown, in that regard all unproven theories for which no one has a laboratory big enough, tiny enough, heavy enough, light enough, hot enough , cold enough, fast enough, or slow enough to undertake an experiment is the Ghaib, it is immaterial to suggest nine +1 dimensions theory or 10 + 1, the strings are so wishy washy that nothing is detereministic. But those scientists who carry on these research know their limits and are humble, they dont call people foolish, no decent reseracher uses that language, scientists learn from their reserach assitants and students who at times get confused what their mentor is doing, a "foolish" observation I made in a research environment qualified for a patent application and an IEEE student government grant.

 

Finally here is what Scientsis in the Space time Superstring theory say about their works:

 

"We still don't know what the fundamental theory behind string theory is, but judging from all of these relationships, it must be a very interesting and rich theory, one where distance scales, coupling strengths and even the number of dimensions in spacetime are not fixed concepts but fluid entities that shift with our point of view."

 

 

That is the Ghaib, and they dont even know when they will be resurrected, And as I said and you agreed, ONLY Allah knows the Ghaib.

 

 

Nur

[Samafal]

Nur wrote:

"Here, I do not have solid knowledge, whether Adam AS replaced Neandarthals or other creatures . But one thing is for sure, they had bodies and they spilled blood, made no Dhiker, (Tasbiix) and made mischief on earth according to the argument of the Angels when Allah told them that he will "create" Man on earth."

 

Brother Nur clarify this for me please: are you suggesting that before Adam A.S there were some creatures living in the universe, If you do, do you have any supporting evidence from the Quran or the Sunnah. From what I know I understood that, the Word "Khalif" meant some one that will overtake the responsibilty of running the affairs of the land from Allah(after Allah S.w craeted the universe in seven days) in the case of Adam and that he will be accountable of his actions and also his children will be accountable of their actions.

 

I hope you understand my question.

[Nur]

Rainbow

 

The word Khalifa is an ambigous one, it can mean

1. Someone to oversee ones property and affairs after his absence

2. It can mean the antonym of SALAF, which is KHALAF or Khalifah, which is someone who takes the place of another or comes after someone (SALAF) who preceded him.

 

Because I do not have enough time, InshaAllah I will explain why I chose the latter in detail. Jazaakallahu Khaiiran for the valuable question.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

Nur bro,

I read through it and think that I have read that piece earlier on somalinet, it was very familiar and I remebered laughing when the Xuri said "Iwant you Nur"; but I could be wrong. Nevertheless, I enjoyed it very much.

 

However, I didn't see how the story had anything to do with Ghaib in the context we were in. Was this a dream you had had that felt like a journey to the unknown OR was it a fictional story that talks about the unknown?

 

Could we say that the people who hallucinate are seeing Ghaib? Some time back, I worked with patients, some of whom had illusions and saw things the rest of us 'healthy' people couldn't see. I had one patient swear that there was a Turkish looking (he was probably dark haired with a moustache) man standing on a cupboard peeing on the floor while laughing at her. The patient also claimed that about 100 short Chinese men were running around in her room that morning before I stepped in. This was quite hilarious (but I didn't laugh or directly disregard the patient's claim) as I knew that there weren't any Chinese and that the floor was not urinated on.

 

Now, this patient could have genuinly seen these things and they could be things that are beyond my perecption because they belong to the Ghaib. The patient thinks that she is going crazy since no one could confirmed what she was seeing; but I think (or atleast speculated in my mind)that Allah (SWT) had made it possible for her to view another dimension, making her what we 'normal people' refer to as clinically insane.

 

What is your take on this?

[Nur]

Viking

 

I never published that story in Somalinet forums, it was another Xur story i guess.

 

 

That was the light side, sorry if you were looking for a serious treatment of the issue which time permitting I shall respond to.

 

Now, about those encounters, I heard thhis story.

 

A man entered a shop an while he was shopping , teh shop keeper asked him if he can help, the customer said, please help this gentleman first, he was here before me,

 

The shopkeeper said that there was no other customer in the shop, the customer seeming confused, immediately left the shop.

 

Later, a lady entered and as the shopkeeper offered to help, she said " Please help that man first"

 

Te shopkeeper this time got very suspicious, and as the woman left, a man came in and told he was the man in his shop he could not see, and that he selected the shopkeeper for his honesty and philanthropy helping the poor. The strange man then todl the shopkeeper to close his eyes and smell a perfume to lift him to heaven for a special treat, the shopekeeper agreed and when he woke up, his store was cleaned. It was a hoax by resourceful thiefs.

 

 

Nur

[JustCause]

Nur, I don’t think you understood the gist of my post and so I think I will try to clarify my position one more time and hope you understand where I am coming from.

 

I changed the direction from soul to spacetime, in order to prevent you from making the classical mistake, which almost all religious scholars tend to make. This mistake is, to try to use today’s scientific facts as a justification for their beliefs. This is a dangerous road for one take and this is because today’s scientific fact could be thrown out of the window tomorrow. Therefore, what I am trying to ask you is , where does it say in Islam, we have three spatial dimensions and one of time (i.e. four spacetime )?

 

The reason why I went to String theory is not to impress or show off. But rather I wanted to illustrate to you and other readers that in science there is strong believe that, we might not just live in a three spatial dimension universe but maybe in one of nine spatial dimensions! Had I just said to you there were more than three spatial dimensions you would probably would have asked me where I got this daft idea from and hence the reason why I dived into string theory.

 

On other hand, I can see in your reply instead of answering my simple question (where does it say in Islam, we live a three-dimension universe) you went on the defence and this time using big words, like K-theory, NCG and so on. I do not think that was helpful in just throwing big words, which very few people understand, and I am one of them. The guy sitting opposite me spent a year of his lifetime trying to test some of the idea of NCG and did not get anywhere! Let alone me, who did not spend a single day except what I heard in seminars and you expect me to understand it!

 

“But those scientists who carry on these research know their limits and are humble, they dont call people foolish, no decent reseracher uses that language, …” I don’t know what you mean by the above statement, but let me make one thing clear I never called anyone foolish and will never do that now either. All I know is I know nothing and I am happy to live in ignorance and doubt.

 

I will finally end this reply by saying, even if we discover a fundamental theory tomorrow morning it wont solve all of our problems and as far as physics is concerned is not the end of the road!

[Nur]

Q

 

You write:

 

"I changed the direction from soul to spacetime, in order to prevent you from making the classical mistake, which almost all religious scholars tend to make. This mistake is, to try to use today’s scientific facts as a justification for their beliefs. This is a dangerous road for one take and this is because today’s scientific fact could be thrown out of the window tomorrow. "

 

 

Answer

 

Jazaakallahu Khairan, I couldnt agree more with you, 100% I also belong to the same school of thought, and if you read my last remark, it reenforces the notion that Islam is stationary, issued by the author of all natural laws.

 

 

You asK:

 

" Therefore, what I am trying to ask you is , where does it say in Islam, we have three spatial dimensions and one of time (i.e. four spacetime )? "

 

Answer:

 

There is no recorded answer to this question anywhere that Ive came across, so my best answer is I do not know, taking guess work out of a raw direct question.

 

Q

 

About the foolish remark, I was only referring to an implied statement somewhere in your response that you said that is foolish, so I take it back, you did not call anyoine a foolish. Agree on this one too.

 

 

Q

 

The only reason that i wrote back about the superstring theory because you refrerred to it, and I used to read about it for hobby, not that it is my area of study or work, but shear interest, in cosmology, and also philosphical aspects of physics and astronmomy, apart from that hobby, I remain ignorant, the sea of knowledge has no bottom, because there are thigns we know, and know for certain that we know, and there are things we know that we do not not know, and things that we dont even know that we dont know, and the latter is probably infinite compared to the first two. The beauty about this ignorance is that it humbles us, and makes us turn to Allah SWT.

 

An old woman once saw a man being followed by a crowd of students, she asked what the man was, she was told, that the man is a great scholar who proved the exisitence of Allah SWT 100 ways, she shook her head and said " I have no single doubt"

 

 

Nur

[Br. Nur]

Rainbow walaal

 

You writer

 

" Brother Nur clarify this for me please: are you suggesting that before Adam A.S there were some creatures living in the universe, If you do, do you have any supporting evidence from the Quran or the Sunnah. From what I know I understood that, the Word "Khalif" meant some one that will overtake the responsibilty of running the affairs of the land from Allah(after Allah S.w craeted the universe in seven days) in the case of Adam and that he will be accountable of his actions and also his children will be accountable of their actions.

 

I hope you understand my question. [/QB]

"

 

 

Answer:

 

Bismillah wa bihi nastaciin.

 

Yes I do understand your question well, here is the answer.

 

Al Baqarah Aayah # 30

 

" Wa idh qaala Rabbuka lil malaa ikati innii jaaclun fil ardi khaiifatan"

 

And recall ( a time in which) your Lord said to the angels, I shall (create, apponint) a khaliifah on earth"

 

The word (idh) in Arabic is (Cadf) a connecting word to the last passage verse in which Allah SWT talks to mankind and questions them of their bad choice of disobeying and denying Allah SWT bounties on them, since he gave them life when thay were dead, and provided for them all the goodness on earth and the horizons, sun moon and stars and all the benefits we derive from these celestial bodies, so the word (idh) stresses, " How can you THEN, disbelief, given that you were chosen as the khalifa on earth"

 

Khalifa in this verse has the folowing meanings.

 

1. Mustakhlaf ,

 

REPLACER, someone who took over a role from someone else. " Wa anfiquu mimmaa jacalakum mustakhlafiina fiih" " spend a portion of the ( wealth) that you were made as care-takers after others" This taa'wiil is the choice of mufassirs like Al Hassan, and Qataadah.

 

2. Khalaa'ifa

 

" Thummaa jacalnaakum khalaa'ifa fil ardi min bacdihim li nandhura kaifa tacmaluun"

 

" And then, we made you to take over their place on earth AFTER THEM, ( Not After Allah) so we may see your choice of actions" because in Tawheed we learn that Allah is in the heavens, not everywhere as the Sufis say.

 

3. Ibn Isxaaq used to interpret khalifah as , a DWELLER , who are not the same species as those who departed.

 

From the above the question that forces itself and the very question about the Neanderthals is " who was dwelling on earth before children of Adam.?

 

First let us go back to the question raised by the angels.

 

" O Allah, are you going to (REPLACE) on earth someone who WILL do mischief on (earth and who will spill(human) blood(in cold blooded murder)"

 

Clearly the angels have demonstrated in this question:

 

1. knowledge of past behaviour of former accupants of planet earth, and since that was the only behaviour they knew of those entities, they prejudiced the arrival of the new creature, thinking that he will also do mischief and spill blood.

 

2. That being khalifah on earth meant making ibaadah and tasbiih and taqdees of Allah

 

3. That they, the Agels were proven to have good behaviour and worship of Allah SWT. purpose of creation, thus:

 

4. They, the angels deserved to become the Khaliifah ( replacers of past dwellors on earth) due to their qualifications.

 

The above meaning was my choice of tafseer on which I built my Neandarthal Theory, which I will explain inshAllah.

 

Now, many scholars have taken a shot, (without solid substantiation from the Hadeeth )regarding the dwellers of earth before the arrival of Adam and Eve, (I miss my parents, and yours!)

 

They said, the Jinn was living on earth, and they caused mischief and kiled each other (like Somalis). I am not implying here that Somalis are Jinn! good Jinn is better than bad Somalis, ( Although some immigration officers would argue they are Jinn due to their resoucefulness in travelling without documents from Kurtunwaarrey all the way to Barrier Reef) , just because they killed the lobster out of each other.

 

The question is, could the Neanderthals or the fossilized creatures found on earth be part of other creations of Allah SWT who dwelled on earth and spilled blood?

 

 

Well, that was may take, and the Neandertal part was just a reference to Mad Mac who I was taunting to reply, but I do believe that the Khalifah meant REPLACERS, and definetely not Representatives of Allah SWT as you suggested, which can make man the Shadow of Allah on earth as the Popes have claimed for themselves.

 

 

The Debate is open

 

 

Nur

[Salafi_Online]

Innalhamdullah...

 

akhee baarakallahu feekum...as for the question whether there were other creatures on Earth before Adaam(as)....inshallah i hope you find confort in this response.

 

Allah the Almighty revealed: Remember when your Lord said to the angels: 'Verily, I am going to place mankind generations after generations on earth.' They said: 'Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, while we glorify You with praises and thanks (exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You.' Allah said: 'I know that which you do not know.'

 

 

According to Ibn Qatadah(rahimullah), it was said that the angels were informed about the creation of Adam and his progency by the jinn who lived before Adam. Abdullah Ibn Umar(radiyallahu Anhum) said that the jinn had existed for about 2000 years before Adam and then shed blood....as we know jinns & humans are the only creatures with free will. Therefore Allah sent on them an army of angels that drove them out to the depths of the seas. Ibn Abi Hatim narrated from Ali jafar Al Baqer that the angels were informed that man would cause wickedness and shed blood on earth.

 

Ma3salam

[Nur]

Salafi Bro

 

Jazaakallahu khairan for clarifying and showing the sources of my argument, now we wanna hear from the Rainbow, we indeed need to BOW, to get RAIN, hence Rainbow!

 

 

Nur