Just Me And My Sufi Friend!

[Nur]

Salaams Nomads

 

I am back, and this is the first topic I picked, it is an old topic from Somalinet boards, and because it was one of the most interesting dialogues I ever had with any Hyper-Debator, I thought that you may also like to catch up to this great topic that arose from a simple post that I posted about our souls.

 

Here is the original Topic

 

Soul Brothers, & Sisters

 

The internet is the miracle of our times. It is an aayah, a testamanet of Allah's SWT greatness . Since the first three computers were hooked up few decades ago, the world is becoming increasingly virtually connected , and also logically, not Boolean, but those who share a common logic and philosophy find each other on this web.

 

From an Islamic point of view, the internet is providing the best platform to exchange unfiltered opinion on any issue, it provides an opportunity in which you can share views with soul mates that you have never met and may never meet if you mutually choose so.

 

Now, let us step back in time, thousands of years ago, before creation when dinosaurs roamed earth and Neanderthals were the show in town, just before their extinction .

 

Allah SWT summoned all the souls that will be created on earth to take the place of the Neanderthals ( Mad Mac , may believe that he is descendent of the Neanderthals of Ireland)

Allah asked these souls one question " Am I not your lord "

 

All the souls present that day, representing every person who ever lived and who will ever live in the future responded " YES": acknowledging Allah's supremacy and man's dependency.

 

That day, many souls have indeed met and rubbed shoulders, (do souls have shoulders?) and some souls have liked each other, while others disliked each other.

 

When you meet people in a crowd, by instinct you are predisposed to like a person, or dislike another person. This initial dislike, we call it prejudice and it is actually the remnant of the conflict you've had with souls before you were born.

 

The Prophet SAWS said " Souls are a grouped sets, those who have known each other ( Soul World) in positive ways, clicked, and those who have disputed will differ"

 

So like wise, the internet is a collection of souls behind monitors humming with signals and thoughts, sharing points of view or disputing an issue.

 

All these souls will be brought back and Allah will settle their disputes once and for all..

 

This was my insight for today, please share yours.

 

Nur

[Nur]

The Sufi Responded with this:

 

 

Ustad Nuur,

 

I have great admiration for your participation in this forum. Your contrabutions give deep insight to many of us also.

 

That is why I personally ask you, sometimes, silly or unlearned questions. I hope that you will be forgiving and tolerant to me and give explaination there you can,

 

I am satisfied with your reply regarding to my last question. But as always there are more question in our mind.

 

You know words are conveyers of thoughts and somtimes one wonders if one is missing the point or the other is using the unappropriate words which were to convey the right thoughts.

 

Let us see here again, and I my intention is purely positive, don't misunderstand me.

 

You said in the same letter and I qoute:

 

"Allah SWT summoned all the souls that will be created on earth to take the place of the Neanderthals.......... Allah asked these souls one question " Am I not your lord " .

 

Instead of using the word "created on earth.........., isn't the right word here " to be embodied on earth ?

 

The other question here is: were not the Neanderhals "embodied Souls" on earth also ?

 

Could you please go in and explain if you can this relationship between Soul, mind and body in Islamic perspective ?

 

Thank you

 

The awakener

 

 

I responded

 

 

Dear Awakener

 

Jazaakallahu Khairan for your contribution.

 

Regarding the choice of words " Create. Vs Embody)

 

You have a point and I have a point

 

First

 

"Embody" is right because the soul superceded the body ( very touchy issue here), so somehow, the body is like a clothing for the soul, which makes your choice feasible.

 

Second my choice is right also, because the Quraan always uses " Khalaqa" so to stay out of trouble I stick to the same term.

 

Now going back to the Neandarthals, as you are aware, Allah speaks of the creation of Adam Caleyhii Salaam, as Khaliifah, which means some one who takes the place of another.

 

Here, I do not have solid knowledge, whether Adam AS replaced Neandarthals or other creatures . But one thing is for sure, they had bodies and they spilled blood, made no Dhiker, (Tasbiix) and made mischief on earth according to the argument of the Angels when Allah told them that he will "create" Man on earth.

 

I hope I clarified Brother

 

Nur

 

 

The Sufi Responded:

 

SOUL IS THE SOURCE OF AWARENESS, ACTIVITY AND INTELLIGENCE '

 

Soul as the primery unit of our beingness is the source of awareness, activity and intelligence.

 

Awareness is that ability which we have that informs us: who we are, where we are and the environment which we are living in. It also makes us aware of our feeling and thought contents.

 

Without awareness -with the above criterier -

one is: asleep, unconscious or is dead '

 

Motor activities of: the body, the emotions and mind, is initiated and executed by the same Soul centtre.

 

Without this supply of energy from Soul to initiate motions or do other actitivities which need energy, the body is not different from the rock and cannot do anything by it's self.

 

Intelligence is a mental capability. Soul regulates this mental activity also. If one is more intelligent then the other then it must be a matter of chioce- from Soul level.

 

Without high level of intelligence, compared to the other living beings on the earth, the human beings wouldn't have been different.

 

Therefore for me, any living being that has an awareness, can initiate physical activity and can make choice- or is intelligent must be an embodied Soul on earth- or according to the Quran terminology: a created Soul on earth.

 

Why do you think then that Neanderhals and eventually other living forms of live on earth are NOT embodied Souls/ created Souls on earth?

 

My posting on the subject may be condensed. Ask more where my thought are not clear to you.

 

The awakener

 

 

I responded:

 

Dear Awakener

 

There are two things people discuss

 

1. Faith

2. Worldly affairs ( Which are further divided into:

a. Realtions of the sexes

b. Financial transactions

c. Others

 

 

In Islam, when we discuss Faith or any related issue, we have to be guided by the Quraan or Sunnah, NOT OUR PERSONAL OPINIONS, no train of thought is allowed to take off without a basis of the above two.

 

Discussing the worldly affairs also , any case involving the relationship of the sexes or financial transactions is also governed by the Quraan and the Sunnah NOT PERSONAL OPINIONS.

 

Remaining other issues are open for pesronal opinions with care.

 

Now speaking of the soul, we should be prepared to back up everyhting we say about the soul with sources of Quraan and Sunnah.

 

The issue of the soul is so mysterious that even the prophet SAWS declined to indulge in it when the Jewish elders asked him about the soul

 

" They ask you concerning the soul, say to them, the soul is a matter (reserved) for my lord"

 

As such, if we are still curious to find out more, we should look deep into all the Stories in the sunnah and Quraan to quench our curiousity. For starters, you can read a Book by Ibnul Qayyim Al Jawziyah, called " AL RUUX " and if you want to dig some more, to see what happens to the soul in the day of judgement, you can read " HAADIL ARWAAX ILAA BILAADIL AFRAAX" by the same author, who was a muxaddith ( Xadith sceintiest) a Faqeeh ( Jurist ) and Xaafidul Quraan, also, linguist and a grammarian, and who wore many other hats related to Islam.

 

Nur

 

 

The Sufi:

 

You are learned man, ustad Nuur '

 

Thank you for your selfless contributions. This is the second time that you tell me that opinions are allowed in Islam but that discussions should be based on what is writen on the Quran and Hadith.

 

I ACCEPT THAT 'THIS WILL BE MY LAST

LETTER WERE I WILL EXPRESS OPINIONS- IF YOU WOULD NOT ENCOURAGE ME OTHERWISE.

 

Usually I know what you would answer, but still because of your insight in Islam I just ask you a question inorder to see whether you would give an answer from another perspective.

 

For me it seems that my knowledge about Soul and generally the human constitution is deep. But mine can be seen as OPINION when I can not directly refer it in the Quran or the Hadith.

 

For me the wisdom of God is limitless. I used to hear: If the wisdom of God were to be writen with the water of the seas, the water would have dried while wisdom is still waiting to be writen. That means regardless of how much knowledge- of any subject including Soul, life on the earth or any other thing- we have, still we are lacking more knowledge and need more lightment.

 

THIS LIMITLESS WISDOM OF GOD IS THERE FOR SOUL TO LEARN AND SOUL CAN WILLINGLY CHOOSES TO APPROACH THIS WISDOM THROUGH ISLAM, GUIDED BY THE QURAN AND HADITH.

 

THE QURAN AND HADITH IS THE KEY.IT SHOWS THE WAY !

 

Other Souls, although they are called to become muslim, can willingly choose other religions and approach God in their chosen way.

 

What I am trying to say here, and of course it is an opinion, is that no soul nor human being can encompass such a limitless wisdom of God at one time. Specially not here on the earth, were we are mortal human beings who have severe limitations !

 

For me What we possibly calling an OPINION at one time is the SAME WISDOM that is waiting us to learn.

 

We Soul brothers, and we are learning from one another . Don't discouraged.

 

the awakener

 

 

Nur Response:

 

 

Dear Awakener

 

May Allah accept your sincerity, and open mind.

 

I am very much like you, I am very passionately spriritual in the sense that if I am not careful I can easily float on the edges of the universe, my imaginations make star wars child play, it even occured to me once that I should go out in the wilderness to talk to Allah directly.

 

But, luckily, I have restrained myself with Sunnah of our beloved prophet Muhammad SAWS. I therefore found in the Sunnah a balance between my deep spiritualism and realism.

 

Alhamdulillah, with Quraan as my manual, and the Sunnah as my steering, Taqwah my mantle, Dhiker my security and struggle with my own nafs-al ammaara bil soo, as my vocation, I can barely see the light of the siraatul Mustaqeem. It beats me to understand how others cruise these rough waters without such an arrangement.

 

So Dear awakener, I DO UNDERSTAND the oceans of feelings you have for Allah in your heart. To generate useful power from these waves though, we need to look into the Sunnah to differentiate between false feelings and genuine spiritual AWAKENING.

 

Nur

[Nur]

The Sufi:

 

Dear Ustad Nur,

 

This will be my last letter I will contribute to this subject. I will let the others make their contributions to the topic.

 

But, for your informations I AM A SOUL TRAVELER. For those of you who do not know the meaning of the term, it means SOMEONE who have learned to leave the body behind and can explore the universe using the SOUL body as a vehicle.

 

For some of you this may sound unintelligible or impossible. It simple means one comes to the original Soul state one was/is before he/she became created/embodied on the earth.

 

In that state of Soul there is freedom and capablities that cannot be had when Soul has a body as a clothing on the earth. There is also PURE LOVE AND HAPPINESS IN IT.

 

I am passionately in love with God and Soul. Everybody Should know himself as Soul. I repeat myself here:KNOW HIMSELF. Faith HAS TO BE secondary CONSIDERATION here. knowing is paramount.

 

This art of separation of Soul from body can be learned by anyone who is willing to use effort and time to this endeavour. One needs though a teacher who is himself Certified Soul traveler.

 

If one is Muslim and wants to learn this art he/she has to seek a Sufi teacher who will take the IGNORANT SEEKER into his protection and teach/guide him/her. I use the word IGNORANT HERE because one is ignorant( some mystical teachers use the term blind)before one knows himself as SOUL.

 

We are in a new ERA. SELF REMEMBRANCE THAT ONE IS SOUL IS DAWING NOW.

 

WAKE UP. CATCH THE TIDE AND FIND A TEACHER.

 

The awakener.

 

 

Nur response:

 

 

Dear Awakener

 

It is always healthy to discuss issues frankly, I will be very frank today, so tighten your seat belts, and open your mind, we are going places, InshaAllah. No malice meant, here is my opinion on your writeup.

 

I would first like to start with the last point you have raised concerning the Sufi order sheikh as a coach for spiritual training.

 

There is no doubt that we all need teachers to teach us about our faith, and how to better serve Allah SWT. But as you may know, first and foremost we need to define Islam in the simplest terms in order to determine two things.

 

1. What Allah SWT wants from us?

2. What we want from Allah SWT

 

Answer 1. That we do not resist him (ibaadah)

Answer 2. Jannah ( Paradise)

 

The answer to those two questions will givern our discussion.

 

Answering the first question, Allah SWT says " I have not created man and Jinn, except for my Ibaadah "

 

So What is ibaadah?

 

Ibaadha comes from the root Arabic word, abadah, which means :

 

a) when using in context of transportation we say " Dariiqun Mucabbad" a paved way, here it means the roads resistance is minimal to traveller, no peaks and valleys, no holes, no surprises.

 

b) when using in context of social status , Pharaoh says about Moses and his people " Wa qowmuhumaa lanaa caabiduun" Moses' people are our servants. Again , the same meaning, the people of Moses do not resist our authority as Egyptian rulers.

 

Ibaadadah therefore can be summarized as the absence of resistance to a higher authority,

 

Now let us look Ibaadah in other terms.

 

Everything other than Allah SWT is caabid. meaning they take orders from supreme power no one can resist. The Cosmos in general is Submittimg to Allah SWT, and it is made up of two types of creations

 

a. Living

b. Non living ( at least in our own perception)

 

The living are made up of two more groups

 

a. Intelligent

b. Non intelligent ( at least in our own perception)

 

 

Allah say of all these " In kuullun man fil samaawati wal ardi illaa aati Rahmaani Cabdaa"

 

All that which is in the heavens and earth, (have no choice) but to approach the Merciful ( in the day of judgement as Abdan ( zero resistance)

 

Now let us see how everyone conforms to the will of Allah SWT.

 

Allah addresses the mountains, the the sky, the fire, as servants in the Quraan:

 

" O mountains, join David in his tasbeex ( remembrance, ( and as a result of his servitude to Allah) we have made metals maleable for him"

 

" O sky, stop raining, O earth, dissipate the flood" When Noah finaly scaped the punishment of the great flood, of his people due to their resistance to Allah SWT.

 

"O fire, be cool and peace for Abraham"

 

Now as you can see, these creatures behave in a certain way, the fire burns, water flood, etc. but when the originator of the law of physics interfered, they conformed without resistance. This we call Mucjiza ( Miracles)

 

Now after concluding the above observation, let us discuss human beings, Jinn, and animals.

 

Animals are exempt from responsibility due to their role as subservant to mankind. They are made servant to us, so we serve a higher authority.

 

Jinn are entity that are created from fire and live in a different domain, although they interact with the human beings in a feak ways. They are also responsible like humans, and have Muslims and non Mulsims. Sometimes, the Jinn can coexist in the same body of a human, and at times taking full control, which is similar to what we know as hacking in computer terms. The episode of hacking of human body contiues until the Jinn loses control due to his lack of knowledge (some are dumb) or until a major force interferes like Aayatul Kursi.

 

Many people are inflicted with these episodes of Jinn temporarily occupying their bodies and taking them for a joy ride or a painful nightmare. So it is important that we know how a normal person behaves to know that this person is not behaveing in a upnormal way.

 

When a Sufi tells that he has travelled as a soul traveller, we simple people ask, why it is necessary to do this trick? is it part of ibaadaat that Allah SWT ordained to his messenger? clearly not. so, that leaves one possibility, which is the Sufi body is possessed, by hackers who are directing his action against the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad SASWS.

 

If the purpose of man is ibaadah of Allah alone, and these ibaadaat are clearly defined, prayers, fasting and helping the poor, abstaining from the forbidden things and remembrance of Allah SWT. If a person fails those ibaadaat and suddenly feels that he is above those shariica, (law) because he plays ball with major league ( Xaqeeqah). than here we have a huge problem that can pose the following question:

 

Is This person who found the Xaqeeqah an ilaah? or a servant?

 

Becuse we defined ibaadat as relinquishing of resistance to a higher authority.

 

Now, Allah SWT has reserved the term CABD or Servant as the highest decoration for his prophet the night of Al Miraaj, so people do not confuse him with a diety, Which is logical for the lay people to think since he went up to the heavens, that he may be kind of an Ilaah,

 

" Subxaana Alladee asraa bicabdihi leilan, minal masjidil xaraami ailaal masjidil aqsaa aladii baaraknaa xawlahu, li nuriyahau min aayatinaa"

 

It was reported that imaam Shaafici, was approached by people who told him that they saw his face in the skies at night. The imaam told them that " it is Satan, who wants to mislead them, and magnify his ego"

 

 

The next point is what we want from Allah SWT.

 

The answer is simple

 

1. Good life

a. Here in this world

b. There in the next world

 

So if someone other than Allah claims that he offers these two, which is strictly the authority of Allah, we have ta ask, for their credentials.

 

Which brings me to your suggestion of finding a SUFI Sheikh.

 

As a person who serves Allah alone, and who seeks help from Allah alone " Iyaaka Nacbudu, wa Iyaaka Nastaciin"

 

I need to see the SUFI Sheikh's Resume.

 

Once I see his resume . I will check it against the set standards of our faith

 

1, Quraan

2. Sunnah

 

If what he presents to me are supported by Quraan and Sunnah, I will then make a discussion with him based on these two sources. and we probably will get somewhere. If on the other hand , the Sufi Sheikh turns out to be my old highschool Atheist friend who was transformed in Morocco Suufi Zaawiyah, with no knowledge of Quraan, Arabic, Hadeeth, Seerah except for his mantra ( Ask the Sheikh) . Than I will be amused, and say. Alxamdulillahi alladee caafaanaa mimmaa ibtalaakum bih.

 

Islam is very simple, any attempt to add to what has been delivered by the prophet SAWS is divergence from the right path, and in turn any divergence will lead to hell.

 

Allahumma arina Al Xaqqa xaqqan, warzuqnaa ittibaacah, wa arinaa al baadila baadilan war zuqnaa ijtinaabah

 

 

aamiin

 

Nur

 

 

The Sufi Responded:

 

Dear Nur,

 

Your answer is the classical answer which is give by the scholarly learned sheikhs in the Sunni school of thought. If one asks the same question to a Sufi sheikh or a shia sheikh they might probably give the answer from another prespective.

 

Now in this letter I will discuss about Soul traveling and my be in a another letter I will continue the other subjects we have been discussing in this this postings.

 

1.Soul travelling is a latent natural ability which everyone of us has.

 

No one human being needs to call upon jinn in order to soul travel. In fact everyone of us has that ability but we are not conscious of it. When are we sleeping, Soul leaves the body in degrees, and explores other universes. The modern scientist have become aware of this human potensial of dreaming for a time now. There are extensive stduies about it which one can read in the libraries.

 

What is interesting about this dreaming is what the scientist call LUCID dreaming. The scientist know now that such an state can be indused. The dreamer wakes up in the dream state with all his faculties operational and under the controll of the person and he/she does what ever one prefers to do.

 

Human beings have better capablities or the same capalities as the Jinn. Consequently they do not need the support of Jinn to Soul Travel. Besides Soul traveling is same for Soul as walking, eating and other activities are for the body.

 

This ability of the human beings has always been known to the mystical schools in many religions in this world among them the Sufis.

 

This mystical schools developed techniques so that this capability can be learned and mastered by seekers of the higher truth.

 

Qualified teachers give this techniques to chosen students and after long training some students develop the ability to go in and out of this dream state in their sleeping hours. They learn not only to be awake in here and now but they are also awake when they are seeming asleep.

 

The Second stage of this training is that the ability becomes automatic and is available to the person even in the waken state here and now.

 

One can though happen to be mislead by jinn or other humans. We are always mislead many times. Millions of somalis living inside and outside somalia are mislead of handfull of warlords.

 

And Jinn or other powers can and do possses

human beings mostly with those who are fearfull or do not know how do defend themselves from such intrusions of this powers.

 

 

That is why a certified teacher is needed. In Islam the certified teacher is mostly Sufi.The other muslim "Culima" usually have deep knowledge of Islam but they can give us only mental knowledge not SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES.

 

We should not discredit everything which seems unfamiliar to us, not specially this one. One gains nothing to LOSE HIS IDENTITY AS SOUL.

 

EVERY ONE OF US IS SOUL CLOTHED WITH A BODY.

to know your self as such gives strong IMMAN.

 

OTHERWISE ONE THINKS THAT ONE IS BODY AND THAT THE OTHERS ARE BODY AND THEN KILLING AND CONFLICTS PREVAIL IN THE RELATIONS OF THE HUMAN BEINGS- as you witness in our country now.

 

 

More to come

 

the awakener

 

 

Nur Response to Sufi:

 

Dear Awakener

 

Knowledge is an ever expanding circle, the more I master a science, the more I realize my ignorance, and the more windows of knowledge open up for me.

 

With your past post, you have indeed raised my ineterst in soul travel, it sounds like hiking, skiing, or scuba diving. However, for someone like me who enjoys diving, I would prefer to call it soul diving, as scuba diving frees you so you can move in all three dimensions.

 

Before I try this inetersting technique of yours called soul travelling though, I need to know answers to certain questions that should have been in the soul travel manual, just like the diving manual which I was given before I met the Scuba Diving Sheikh. And if I were you, I would post answers for an FAQ ( Frequently Asked Questions) for soul travelling that answers the following questions.

 

1. What is the purpose for soul travelling?

2. Who prescribed the soul travel technique?

3. What are the benefits of soul travel for a Muslim?

4. How often do soul travellers read Quraan?

5. How often do soul travellers make khatam al Quraan ( complete)?

6. What verses in the Quraan support the practice of soul travel technique?

7. What source from the Sunnah support the practice of soul travel Technique?8. Is the Soul travel a form of worship (ibaadah) to Allah SWT or is it spiritual entertainment and sport?

9. Are Sufi orders an ellitest Islamic club with certain powerful secrets only known to their members?

10. How can a sufi be sure that his body is not possessed with Jinn when he experiences supernatural powers of higher awareness like the soul travel?

11. Does a Sufi follower receive these special powers from Allah or other entities like friendly jinn?

12. If it is from Allah, what are the supporting aayaats in Quraan or hadeeth?

13. Did the soul travel exist during the time of Prophet Muhammad SAWS?

14. Who was the first successful soul traveller in history?

 

Please kindly answer the above questions to educate me and others who are curious?

 

 

Nur

 

 

The Sufi:

 

Ustad Nuur,

 

This are extensive question to answer. I am neither teacher nor Sufi and therefore Iam not willing to answer them. If you are interested or any other one is interested on this subject then you should not hesitate to contact a Sufi Teacher.

 

Sufism stresses forcibly though that beneath the form of the religion, there operates an underlying spirit of revelation. This underlying revelation must be given preference over the form.

 

THE ULTIMATE GOAL IS IDENTIFIED AS THE LOVE OF GOD AND COMMUNICATION WITH HIM.

 

While a Sunni sheikh like Ustad Nuur gives us explaination the Quran and Hadith out of the form, a Sufi teacher will , in addition to meaning and interpretation of form, give the underlying explanations also.

 

We should not argue about what is right or wrong. What we call right and wrong is primerily infromations which we recieved and accepted as such.

 

I JUST PROPOSED THAT SUFISM HAS A SOLUTION FOR SELF PURIFICATION AND THEN IN AN EVEN HIGHER PURIFICATION STAGES ONE EXPERIENCES HIMSELF AS SOUL

 

If one is satisfied to be where he/she it is Ok. It means that persons is satafied with his spiritual life and lacks nothing.

 

I know what I know and that knowledge can not be transfered to the others except verbally. That does not proof anything.

 

Most of you may have FAITH that you are soul. Many others do not know anything. They are body which sleeps and wakes up and does certain activities.

 

I have more then FAITH. I am always my primery being-SOUL. not body or any thing else for example a body possesed by Jinn. Soul cannot be possesed. It is the centre of the life impulse and it supremly rules its environment both inside and outside.

 

 

Those who need to come this pure Soul state and then seek God, and eventually become masters over their lifes can seek a Sufi teacher.

 

The Question is Why ?

 

You can read here what Sufi student wrote in another topic " what is sufism ?

 

Sufism is drived from Tasawuf. The sceince of self purification in Islam. As Allah SWT said in Holly Qura'n, 'Qad Aflaxa Man Tazaka.' Surely he has succeeded whomsoever purifies themselves. Saxabas did Tazkiyatu Nafs through direct guidence of Prophet SAW. In the time of Prophet SAW, Sufism or Tasawuf was a reality without a name, today you find it as a name without reality. Real Tasawuf observes 'Cathimatul Shariicah' at its highest and demands to follow footsteps of Prophet SAW in every aspect as the shadow follows its form, were others observe 'Rukhsatul Shariicah'. Tasawuf requires intensive training through an authorized Murshid, teacher, that traces his Silsilah, chain of transmission of knowledge to Prophet SAW through one of the Khulufa'u Rashideen. Meaning that Murshid must have trained under, an authorized literally and in writing, a Murshid similarly trained under authorised...., and so on all the way to Prophet SAW. This creates an uncut cable to the source. Some scholars refer to this as another meaning of 'Wactasimu Bixablilaahi Jamiican Walaa Tafaraqu'. Grap on to the uncut cable of Allah SWT collectively do not be disconnected from. For it is only that cable that carries real power. In short Tasawuf is the spiritual aspect of Islam. It carries the Mureed, student, from five pillars of Islam through the six pillars of Iman all the way to Ihsan, state of excellence, as Allah SWT refered in Holly Qura'n, 'Wa Axsinuu Inallaaha Yuxibul Muxsiniin'. Be exellent for Allah SWT loves Excellent Ones. As the Murid progresses, depending on the calliper of the Murshid (Murshid At-tabaruk, Murshid At-tazkiyah, Murshid At-tarbiyah, etc.), he experiences dressed with certain tajallis, divine blessings or manifestations. These Tajallis are experienced through hearing, sensing and visions. That is a sign of certain veils removed from that Murid as a result of enlightment. Upon the Murid refraining from the 500 forbidden acts and trying to exercise 800 recommendations and engaging his tongue and heart with Dikrullah at all times. The Murid must maintain an all time Awareness that Allah SWT is watching him. The example is that of wearing a seatbelt at all times verses only when a peace officer is noticed.

However, the brother/sister above expresses a seperation between sufism and sunni. There is no sufism or tasawuf without being a real sunni, one that follows the sunnah of Prophet SAW to the highest. Often you might find some non-Muslims refer to themselves as Sufis or Western Sufis which forces the un-informed to ask, 'Are sufis Muslims?' Many in the west were overwhelmed by the sceince of Tasawuf and tried to imitate in various made up ways. You may find them chanting, 'La Ilaaha Ila Laah', 'Al Hamdillilah', etc. But they all agree that its origin is Islam. Tasawuf remains as mainstream Islam, from East to West in the Muslim World, while it comes under attack by the Saudis in pamphlet, translations, scholarships. A simple example that seams all these is in the Qura'n translation(Af Soomaali) printed by the Sacudis, look under Surat Ta Ha verse 130. where, 'Fasabix' is translated as, 'KU TASBIIXSO (TUKKO)...' Hinting to Somalis that TASBIIXSO means TUKKO, as they put it in prentices

 

 

Awakener:

[Nur]

Nur's Response to the Sufi

 

Dear AwakenerDear Awakener

 

Imaam Shaafici was once accused of being a Raafidah due to his love for Aal Al Beit of our Holy Prophet Muhamad SAWS. The Imaam who was a poet responded with a poem whose meaning was " If the love of the Aalal beit makes me a Raafidi (Shiia), then let everyone be witness that I am a Raafidi"

 

If tasawuf is a name for the love for Allah, then should'nt we all be Sufis?

 

Personally, I have a teacher who I consider the teacher of teachers, His good name is Muhammad SAWS, and his Sunnah is my guide in all matters of my life. I thus have reached sufficiency from other teachers as I am directly connecrting to the sources of my teacher collected and safeguarded under Al Bukhaari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Daud, Al Daarimi.

 

There is a saying, Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day, Teach a man how to fish and you have fed him for a lifetime.

 

Our Holy prophet SAWS have fed us muslims for life when he gave us the Sunnah and said I have left for you two sources if you hold onto, you will not get lost. The Book of Allah and my Sunnah.

 

 

As you can see from the above hadeth there is no mention of any other source of guidnace.

 

Which brings me to discuss Sufism as it it was and how it turned out to be in recent times.

 

Imaam Abdulkaadir Al Jeilaani, to your surprise was a follower of the Hanbali school of thought. The same school of Sheikh Muhammad Abdul Wahaab. The imaam was a very pious, knowledgeable, and spiritual man, whose contribution to Islamic sciences are innumerable. Studying his biography, I found the Imaam as a man misunderstood by his alledged followers of late. The Sheikh was a master of the Hadeeth and Quraan, the grammar, language and all related Islamic studies. This was the Murshid, teacher, and his Murids were real seekers of Knowledge, not merely seekers of sptritual acrobatics, similar to Yoga.

Let us visit another famous Sufi, I will withold his name for now so we can discuss his actions. Imagine a man who would pray Fajr prayer and sits until Zuhr prayer aadaan, making dhiker , his Murid, asks him, "O my sheikh, are you still sitting since I left you this morning making dhiker? The sheikh answers, yes, it is my food, if I do not do it I will die ( my soul)." This Sheikh Teacher or Murshid as you may call, was Ibnul Taymiya, and His Murid who asked him the question was Ibnul Qayim Al Jawziyah, the twin towers of Islamic Thought revival of our times.

 

Ibnul Qayim has extensively written on the soul and its science, he is regarded the father of Islamic Psychology. His books cover all topics that may interst real Sufis who love Allah SWT and show their love in following the Sunnah of our prophet Muhammad SAWS. Allah SWT says, " Tell (them), If you indeed love Allah, then, follow me, Allah will love, and will forgive you your sins" So the following of the Sunnah is a bedrock and a foundation of Sufism as it was known during Sheikh Ibnul Taimiya, and his Murids like Sheikh Ibnul Qayim.

Sheikh Ibnul Qayim wrote books that heal the soul , clean our niyah, get us close to allah SWT and make your heart soft. Books that depend on the Sunnah as their source of teaching, books that take you to spiritual hights that you will not reach unlsess you put the Sunnah to work for you. Anything that is not based on the Sunnah is an Illusion. Here are my favorite selections:

 

1. Zaadul Macaad Fee Hadyi Khairil Cibaad ( Practicing the Sunnah)

 

2. Madaarijul Saalikiin beyna manaazil iyyaaka nacbudu wa iyyaaka nastaciin ( the best psycholgy Book ever written)

 

3. Dariiqul Hijrateyn wa safar ul Sacaadatayn ( following the steps of the sahaabah)

 

4. Jalaa Al afhaam, fil salaat wal salaam calaa kheiril anaam ( on the imporatnce of the Salaat on the soul of our Prophet SAWS)

 

5. Ighaathatul Lahfaan min masaayed al sheitaan ( The tricks satan plays on people)

 

6. Al Ruux ( this is a gem stone on the soul science, don't look further)

 

7. Haadil Arwaax ilaa bilaadil Afraax ( now here is the joy of jannah and its pleasures)

 

8. Tahdheeb sunan Abi Daud ( collection of explained and calrified hadeeths)

 

9. Dibbul Quluub ( Medicine of the hearts for Heart ailments, not Cholestrol driven)

 

10. Al waabilul sayyib wa raafcul kalimul dayyib ( For those who literally want to get high! The best book on Dhiker ever written)

 

11. Rawdatul Muxibbiin (The good, the bad and the ugly of love)

 

12. Ciddatul Saabiriin wa dakhiiratul shaakiriin ( this is the healing for the afflicted and the tool for the happy)

 

13. Al Kabaa'ir ( Major Sins)

 

14. Hidaayatul xayaaraa minal yahuudi wal nasaaraa ( The source of ahmed Deedaat in Dialogue with Christians)

 

15. Al Sunnah wal bidcah

 

16. Al Fawaa'd ( Collection of wisdoms)

 

After you read the above, and practice, you will be a Murshid is ShaaAllah.

 

That is all for today

 

 

Nur

 

 

The Sufi Responded:

 

Ustaad Nuur,

 

I love you as my Soul brother.

Everyone else is also my Soul brother

and sister'

The love of God is binding force that unities us,

and in the glory of his love we exist '

Amin

 

I agree with what you wrote in your last posting. It seems for me that you have not digested the contents of my last letter.

 

The point I made in my last letter was this and I quote for simplicity:

 

"Beneath the form , there is an underlying spirit of revelation. THIS UNDERLYING REVELATION MUST BE GIVEN PREFENCE OVER THE FORM"

 

This means that the form which WHICH FOR EXAMPLE YOUR EXPLANATIONS REFLECT is the primery step we take in order to come back to GOD.

 

The second and IMPORTANT STEP IS WHEN WE BEGINH TO LEARN THE UNDERLYING REVELATIONS OF SAME QURAN AND HADITH SOURCES WHICH WE HAVE.

 

Here is where we disagree Ustaad Nuur:

 

I believe that the Quran and Hadith have an ever deeper revelation to reach/seek ALWAYS.

 

I believe that ever deeper revelation of the Quran and Hadith has a teacher who is living now who can give the seeker.

 

Consequently I believe that the Quran and Hadith in there outer form are KEYS to a deeper truth which has to be sought and learned.

 

If it is NOT as I said , for me, the wisdom of Quran and Hadith has to be limited.

 

NO ' THE WISDOM THAT CONTAINS IN THE QURAN AND HADITH HAS AN EVER INCREASING SCOPE ACCORDING TO WHERE YOU STAND.

 

The sufi teachers have their PLACE in teaching of THE QURAN AND HADITH IN THEIR EVER INCREASING SCOPE.

 

The other scholarly learned sunni teachers have their place also.

 

All though there can be misguided teacher in both groups most of them are genuine teachers of the word of God and have sincere intentions.

 

In regard to your letters I see that you don't agree that the Sufi teachers can teach an UNDERLYING REVELATION of The Quran and Hadith. It seems to me also that you believe that they teach something foreign which is neither in accord with the Quran nor with the Hadith.

 

If that is your conclusion I respect it'

 

I stand on my point:

 

I am Soul'

Everyone is Soul'

Soul can be realised while living here and now'

You can gain such realisaiton through Islamic means '

You cannot be mislead while loving seeking God '

God protects his Lovers '

It is through the grace of God that one can gain such realisation '

A certified Sufi teacher can facilitate so that one can have such realisation '

 

Wake up and seek you Self- Soul.

 

I decided myself that I won't be avaible for more comments on this subject.

 

Nabad gelyo iyo nooli kullantee '

 

Qaar badan oo idinka mid ahi inay hurdadii ka tooseen oo ay xiiso gelisay inay raadiyaan waxan lagu sheegayo " Soul " ayaan rajeynayaa '

Ustaad Nuur oo aqoontiisu sareysona wuu joogaa'

 

Laakiin dad badan oo kale oo aqoon lihina way joogaan.

 

Aan dedaalo oo ilaahay u dhowaano '

 

Mahad sanidin

 

The awakener

 

 

Nur's Response

 

Dear Awakener

 

I have indeed read all of your words, and have understood them very well, because I come from a Sufi background, both in education and family, I have seen both sides of the fence brother, and I must admit that clinging to Sunnah and Quraan has no parallel when it comes to securing a place in Paradise.

 

Said all of that Brother, remember Sufism as I have exlained is not a stand alone concept in Islam, rather it is an integral part of a wholesome experince offered by Islam for its followers. Unfortunately, the problem of Sufism being repsented as a stand-alone concept is shared by other groups in Islam who also have similarly focused on other components of this great Deen, and creating sub-Deens out of Islam as a result.

 

For example, To some, the political activism has appealed, and conseqently, they have digged and found all the sources in the Sunnah to quench their thirst in this subject, and based on this, they created movements that entirely seem stand alone in their practice of part of Deen while neglecting the backbone of Islam which is Salaat and Ibaadaat. Yet other groups have focused on Ibaadaat and neglected the political activism of Islam.

 

Based on that logic, I do see where you are coming from, because you seem very excited of your experiences that you have gained when you attended a Dhiker session with a Murshid. To suggest that you can only get such a feeling by a certified Murshid alone, is like saying you can learn tricks of football from Brazilians only.

 

I can tell you that when I stand up at night in prayers, I feel so good that I wonder, what makes people sleep and miss an opportunity as pleasurable as this. I can't explain the feeling, I can tell people go try it. Now imagine if I form a group called QIYAMULLEILIS, who focus on the nightly prayers only and make conventions where we only meet like minded Qiyaamullieli brothers and sisters and look down upon those who do not enjoy this pleasure? Soon we will be a Sub-Deen group.

 

In conclusion, I want to say, the very name of the group SUFI is questionable at best, if we overlook their focus area of the seeking of the love of Allah SWT. The name Muslim is comprehensive and wholesome and it includes the love of Allah SWT and in order to reach the true love of Allah one must follow the Sunnah of his prophet SAWS.

 

Your last statement that Allah does not mislead those who love him is true, provided that they follow the directions set by his prophet SAWS, otherwise they will get lost like Christians who claim that they love Allah SWT.

 

 

Finally I want to say

 

Axxabbaka Alllahu alladee fiihi axbabtanii

 

Allaha ku jeclaado, kaad dartiis iagu jeclaatay, ogowna in aan aniguna kugu jeclahay Allah dartiis aanan kuu baryayo inuu nagu wada hadeeyo dariiqa toosan ee uu noo jideeyay Suubbanihii Muxammad SCWS.

 

Nur

 

 

Nur responds again to the Sufi:

 

 

If you belong to the following group:

 

 

1. Believe in Allah

2. The Last day ( The day of Judgment)

3. And who remembered and mentioned Allah's and his qualities a LOT

4. Those who love Allah SWT

 

 

You need to follow this example

Of The prophet Muhammad SAWS

 

 

Allah says

 

" There has been a good example for you to emulate in the person ( Character and his way of life) of the prophet Muhammad SAWS, for he who believes in Allah, the last day and ( as a result ) have remembered and mentioned Allah ( DHIKR) a lot"

 

Allah SWT further Says

 

" Say ( O Muhammad to them ), if you indeed love Allah SWT, then Follow me ( Sunnah). Allah will love you and forgive your sins"

 

The Moral of the above:

 

If you have any of the above 4 qualities, you are urged to follow the way of the Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

 

If you are not following the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad SAWS, your claim of the above is questionable

 

 

Nur

 

 

The Sufi Responded:

 

Why do you question if I have the four mentioned qualities ?

 

Did I say that I don't believe or have those qualities ?

 

Or do you mean that a Sufi teacher has not those qualities and will eventually mislead anyone who comes to him ?

 

In fact all my letters are calling their readers to have higher ambition and motivation in order to reach God again. Mine is the waling from the wilderness for Soul to remember it's self and come back to God '

 

The interesting thing about my letters is not about my personal believes and achieveements but I have been showing the way, ALWAYS, about how such self rememberance for Soul can be achieved within the Islamic confinement'

 

As you mentioned in another posting in this series, Islam is a whole and the Sufi school of thought in Islam is an integral part of it. There is no separation between the Sunni, Sha'a and Sufi except that which our mental perception creates.

 

But the fact and the truth is that every teacher has his own way of teaching and training his disciples and puts emphasis on certain verses and deeds in the Quran and Hadith or the qualities of God.

 

SUCH PUTTING OF EMPHASIS OF THE TEACHER IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN ALL ALONG COMMENTING ABOUT.

 

I have been saying that the HIGHEST ONE IS - is SOUL. And the sufi teachers- put emphasis in that knowledge in the Quran and Hadith.

 

I hope we should be wise and try not to easily discred one another. Although you are learned mann and may be more religious then I am still from your letters it seems for me that you are discredting the islamic teaching which is given by the Sufi teachers-not me personally '

 

It sounds for me that you claim that you have been in both camps-the sunni and Sufi- and that you became dissatisfied with the Sufi, but the Sunni as present the teaching is correct.

 

That is your personal experience my Soul brother Nour '

 

Let us call the people to become more ambitious and motivate them to seek more through and in the wholeness of Islam '

 

The awakener

 

 

Nur's Response:

 

My Dear Brother Awakener

 

First of all, I did not address you personally, when I need to do that I call you by the name you like.

 

Second, Please think well about me, I am trying to do same for you.

 

Third, Allah SWT says, ( Give good news to my servants, those who pay attention to what is said, and then follow the best of its(meanings))

 

Fourth, Let me remind you that Sunnah and Sufi are not schools of Fiqh, rather, they are streams of wholesome aqeedah and outlook of life.

 

 

Summarizing

 

Sunnah is known according to the Books, Madhabul Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaaca. It is moderate, not extremist, open, not secretive, simple, not complex, understandable by laymen, not an ellitest exclusive club. This Madhab, is well substantiated by Hadeeth and Quraan, everyconcept was taken from the two sources and nothing was added, and nothing was taken away, it is that simple.

 

Sufism, on the otherhand, has gown in its own way, away from the Sunnah mainstream, begining intially as the Asxaabul Suffah, known for their piety, poverty, and congregation in the mosque all the time as they did have worldly business to keep them busy. And later, Sufism became affected with Baadini movements ( Secretive organizations) , as it was accepting every innovation that came its way without a control mechanism to authenticate its sources. It evolved to become secretive, and followers were assigned special teachers to implant ideas that are contraruy to the teachings of the prophet SAWS, in a place called ( Zaawiyah) By a teacher who is above questining, administered to as student whose knowledge of Quraan and Hadeeth, the basic sources of Islam is very shallow.

 

Because Sufism of late became a religion that only addresses the soul, it borrowed everything concerning the soul from everywhere possible, growing to have many alien concepts that were not taught by the Prophet Mohammed SAWS.

 

Sufism, to this day, attracts those with minimal knowledge of Quraan and Sunnah, because many of its teachings are questionable in light of the Sunnah, so it creates a conflict.

 

In short, The way to worship Allah SWT should be simple, not requiring the assignment of a special teacher, particularly our modern times when education can be administred remotely. Anyone who can read, can learn, and furthermore the worship of Allah SWT should not be secretive.

 

Allah SWT says of the Christians ( And they have devised monasticim that was not prescribed on them, yet, they failed to fulfil its requirements as it deserved)

 

Allah further says " There is a GOOD EXAMPLE for you ( to follow) in the person of the prophet ( his Sunnah) for those who:

 

1. Believe in Allah

2. The last day

3. And made a lot of Dhiker.

 

So I assuume that Sufis make a lot of Dhiker which is great, and they Believe in Allah, which is wonderful, and they believe in the day of judgement.

 

What remains is :

 

Should'nt the SUFIS Follow The SUNNAH of the Prophet SAWS? or are they exempt from this requirement?

 

 

Nur

[Nur]

Finally I wrote this message to the Sufi:

 

 

Walaal Awakener

 

The story ws quite amusing, but FAKE SUFIS that I have met and know of are far more sophisticated in their disguise and tactics. They do not mislead kids, but they mislead intire nation.

 

Please read the following piece and educate me if it is true that:

 

1. There is a SUFI connection with Secretive MASONIC temples?

 

2. That SUFI organization present something different than their true mission?

 

3. Teachers are needed for secretive intitiation rites similar to Masonic rites?

 

 

Here is a brief Sufi History, let me know what yoy think.

 

 

An overview of "Universal Sufism"Dr. H. J. Witteveen

 

by Ken Shaw

 

Introductory Comments:

 

The author of "Universal Sufism", Dr. H. J. Witteveen, grew up in a family that was deeply involved with the work of Hazrat Inayat Khan, an Indian classical musician and Sufi who attempted to introduce Sufism into the West in the first years of this century.

 

The pupose of the book is to present an introduction and overview of both Sufism and the life and work of Hazrat Inayat Khan.

 

Chapter One:

 

The History and Origin of SufismDr. Witteveen takes the position that Sufism is a living continuation of the religious tradition of Ancient Egypt, especially the tradition of Toth-Hermes who became known as Hermes Trismegistus in Hellenistic times. He sees Dhul-Nun al-Misti as the connecting link between Islamic Sufism and the Hermetic tradition of Hellenistic Egypt.

 

He quotes Hazrat Inayat Khan as saying that Abraham built the Kaaba after his time in Egypt, and that Abraham concentrated his inner force into the Black Stone of the Kaaba as a memorial of the training he had recieved in Egypt.

 

Dhul-Nun is of special interest to people in the West because he is the founder of the Sufi school called "The Builders" which was the inspiration of the Masonic Lodges of Europe.

 

Dhul-Nun is said to have learned to read the Egyptian Hieroglyphs by means of the special insight he devolped by the diciplines of the Path.Dr. Witteveen sees the next key figure in the development of Sufism to be in Persia by Shihabuddin Yahya al-Suhrawardi.

 

Suhrawardi worked out a brilliantly coherant synthesis of Islam, Egyptian Hermeticism, Zoroastrianism, Neoplatonism and BuddismDr. Witteveen notes the importance of Moses and Jesus in Persian Sufism, Moses being mentioned as often as Krishna is in Hinduism.

 

He sees the Jesus as the main influence on the next key figure in the development of Sufism, Mansur al-Hallaj. Al-Hallaj proclaimed the "Sufi Secret" openly in public, and it cost him his life.

 

He understood what Jesus meant when He said "whoever has seen Me has seen the Father" and "the Father and I are one". Sufism understands "The Father" to be "The-Whole-of-Existence-Itself" which is a single living being. In this view, "God" is the only "Being" that exists at all, and the various orders of "individual" organisms are like minute "reflections" of that Absolute Self in the ripples of Space-Time.

 

Each one of us is like a "Holographic Projection" of that One Self, our experience of "seperatness" coming from our identification with the electro-chemical organic machine which is picking up our conciousness like a radio station.Jesus followed a Path that allowed Him to "Realize the Self" and awaken to His true identity, the One Absolute Self who is God. It was like a person in a dream realizing that he is in a dream and becoming fully conscious in that dream.

 

He is both the "dreamer" of the dream and one of the characters in the dream, but he realizes the truth of both the "waking world" and the "dreaming world" he is in.The first followers of Jesus refered to what they were doing as "The Way", and they understood "the Way" to be a tradition of "inner development" that went back to the begining of man's presence on Earth. The Sufis believe that they are following this very same Way.

 

Al-Hallaj began to announce his own awakening to his friends in no uncertain terms when he said to them:

 

"Ana' al Haqq" -- "I Am The Truth"

 

The word got out that Al-Hallaj was proclaiming that he was God, and the orthodox religious authorities of Baghdad had him arrested. He was eventualy crucified and dismembered for his "crime", but his passion changed the course of history in the East and the West and established Sufism as a permanent feature of Islamic life.Dr. Witteveen points out that later Beyazid Bastami was able to proclaim "Glory to Me" and come to no harm, because Al-Hallaj had forced Islamic civilization to come to terms with the paradoxes of mystical realization.

 

 

He points out the importance of the city of Balkh in Turkistan for its ancient connections to Buddhism and Yoga from India. Balkh is the birthplace of "sober" Sufism which places more emphasis on silent concentration and psychological insight than on the more outwardly "religious" forms of devotion.Dr. Witteveen finishes this chapter with the introduction of Sufism into India, where it began to bridge the gulf between Islam and Hinduism and heal some of the deep wounds that seperated the two communities. The Hindu sages and yogis could see eye-to-eye with the Sufis and embrace them as brethren, and the tombs of Sufi saints are revered as much by Hindus as they are by Muslims in India.

 

My only real problem with this brief overview of Sufi history is that it never mentions Muhammed or the tradition that has survived among the Arabs since the days of Abraham. Moses went to Jethro, "Priest of the Midianites" in the Arabian desert to find shelter and a new direction for his life.The Midianites were a fierce Bedouin people who had lived in the Arabian peninsula since the time of Abraham their father. They lived in deep devotion to the God of their father Abraham, "Yahu Saboath" (Yahu of Warriors), and it was while with Jethro that Moses met the God of Abraham who called Himself "Yahue" (Eternal) and "Hayah" (I Am).

 

The Midianite Arabs had kept the living contact with the God a Abraham alive, and it was from them that Moses got the key to his own Prophetic mission. There is a whole story to be learned about how Jethro came to Moses and the Israelites after the Exodus and taught Moses how to be a tribal Chief.

 

The decendants of Jethro accompanied the Camp of Israel from then on and kept alive thier secret tribal traditions.These decendants of Jethro where later known as the Rechabites in the Land of Israel, where they kept alive their ancient Abrahamic Bedouine lifestyle, never touching wine or cutting their hair or beards. It was from them that the tradition of the "Nazarite" came, which came from the word "Netzerim" which means "Keepers of Secrets". The decendants of Jethro, the Rechabites, where the "Keepers of Secrets" that kept the ancient Abrahamic mysteries alive and functioning until the coming of Jesus and his brother James the Just.So Sufism isn't just an amalgam of various streams of esotericism from Egypt to India, it is the true core of the whole Biblical tradition that comes down from Adam to Seth to Enoch to Noah to Melchezidek to Abraham to Moses to Jesus to Muhammed.

 

Kenneth Shaw

[OG_Girl]

Too much to read, I promise that I will back and read it later.

 

Salam

[Nur]

Dear Awakener, (the Sufi -)

 

I must first clarify my respect to your point of view, because i have been there.

 

Second, The topic at hand as you witfully noticed pertains to DRIVERS, but I did not provide for a crystal ball for happiness for all people.

 

Third, The issue that you have delved into is full of crocodiles lurking beneath, so as my beloved virtual brother, give me your hand so we can swim out of this waters to safetyland, my point has always been, safety is priority # 1.

 

Brother.

 

No one can claim to have discovered a piety that was not taught by our propher SAWS.

And as the Anon before me pointed out, there are two sources of guidance.

 

1. The Quraan

2. Sunnah

 

Allah SWT said " O ye who believe, do not put forth (your opinions) ahead of those of Allah and his messengers"

 

The companions of the prophet when they heard this verse, they were so scared that they even seized saying things they know in the presence of the Messenger SAWS.

 

The Messenger SAWS asked the Companions:

" What month isthis day? They said, Allah and his messenger know it"

" What town is this town? They said, Allah and his messenger SASW know it"

 

The companions knew the answer, but out of respect and in conformity with the above verse they said they did not know. There is a slesson for us here.

 

1. We should not give our opinion when there is a verse or Hadeeth available, you do not have to narrate as long as you are not going against it.

2. In matters of our faith, Allah has completed it, by this verse " Today I have completed your Deen (Way of Life), and completed my bounties on you, and became satisfied Islam as your way of life

 

The rational to sticking to the Sunnah:

 

1. 1400 years have passed since Allah revealed the quraan on our prophet SAWS. Imagine this as a signal being transmitted or a geisar on a hill from which pure water flows down hill.

2. As the signal crosses many media, or the flowing Water cross different terrain, the signal becomes distorted and the flowing water picks up dirt.

3.Imagine we are sitting at the bottom of the hill in the example of the water or at distand location in the signal being transmited for commnication.

4. We will find that the water is muddy and the signal is distorted.

5. Signal Engineers normally reconstruct the signal to get the original message, and hydraulic engineers for the water duct filter the dirt to get the pure water.

 

In our case, the message of Allah SWT is the signal or the water. We need to ascertain the originality of the message, for that reason we stick to authentication of the Hadeeth since the Quraan is immune to distortion which is guranteed by Allah SWT the sender of the message.

 

The hadeeth and the sunnah are the living example of the message of the Quraan.

So, any opinion not supported by Quraan or Sunnah is invalid.

 

Said all of that, Dear Awakener. Let us build all of our discussion on the framework of originality of sources and opinions.

 

I have many insights, but I am careful not to present them as Islam, because, unlike christainity whose Bible reads " And It seems good to me also to write" Our faith is bound with stringent rules of authentication which is the reason Islam survived where all other relgions were made folk lore.

 

I hope I have not offended you as my purpose was to win you over for my side out of love and respect.

 

Walaalkaa fil Islam

 

Nur

[Viking]

Hi Nur,

I remember your dialogues with Toosiye, very interesting.

[Viking]

Bro Nur,

I would appreciate it ifyou could get the time to answer some questions I had.

 

-Could you talk more about the Nafs and Rooh and also their relationship to each other? Pain is felt because we have a skin, but can someone feel pain on his/her soul? What kind of pain is that? Is it the Nafs-ul-lawamma that is causing the pain?

 

-I also wanted to ask about Carsh, the throne. Is it is a physical place that is situated somewhere in the universe or is it in a dimension that we can't comprehend?

 

Peace.

[Nur]

Viking bro

 

Good to hear from you saaxib, the Ruux, and the Nafs are at times different, other times, they are the same thing. Nafs is more like an attitude, a conviction controlled entity that dwells within our mind or decision domain, on the other hand Ruux is a mysterious entity that is the essence of being human, without it we are a piece of clay, the Ruux is like the real person minus clothing of body, that is why we have dreams that look real even when we are sleeoing, because the Ruux has left the body and is experiencing virtual reality outside of our body.

 

But the best answer to your question is the word of Allah SWT " They ask you about the secret of the soul, say, the soul is an issue ( whose secret is reserved )for Allah.

 

As for the Arsh, you guessed right, it is another domain outside the perception of any mortal, the only thing we know about it is what has been said by the prophet SAWS and inshaAllah, when i have time i shall post a summary of that.

 

Nur

[Viking]

Nur,

Thanks for the reply; am glad to be able to read and participate in your instructive posts.

 

I always thought the Ruux to be equivalent to Spirit, the divine in us humans. The nafs however is like the ego, the self and that is what will be held accountable in the day of Judgement. How then could they be different at times and the same at other times?

[Nur]

Viking bro

 

Semantically speaking, Ruux and Nafs can be explained depending on the context in which they are used, Ruux could mean the soul or the Spirit like you've suggested, which is the most popular meaning, Nafs on the other hand could mean the attitude which is the ego you have mentioned, but Nafs in some contexts is synanomous with Ruux, or more precisely the self which envolopes a body independent of any physical attribute, such as when in the day of judgement, everyone says, Nafsii, Nafsi, closely meaning, My soul , my soul, another context it could mean power, like the power Allah SWT gave to believers, here is the motivation.

 

Ruux and Nafs coul also be explained in a different way. The two are the faces of the same entity, Ruux is the side that interfaces with body and makes the connection with the body to realize living function, while NAFS is the other side that deals with the decision making and the brain. In the Data Communication analogy, Ruux is like the phyiscal layer of the Soul, while Nafs is the application layer of the soul.

1. Ruux as the Spirit

 

In the Holy Quraan, Ruux CREATED by Allah, and FROM ALLAH, but NOT PART OF ALLAH, because the latter has confused Sufis to say that since the spirit is from Allah, it is eternal, therefeore, part of God is in humans, which makes man equivalent of Allah, this is a logical pitfall to watch out 4, as it makes ALL TYPES OF SHIRK TOLERABLE, because in the Quraan, Allah SWT clearely documented the creation of our father as an special event in the cosmos when Allah said he will CREATE man and place him on EARTH. In the Islamic Aqeedah, it is important that we differentiate man from God, and then make man servant of God, because it is a Satanic trait to make man think to be independent and stand alone, thus a God.

 

"Innal insaana la yadghaa, an Ra aahu istaghnaa, kallaa inna ilaa Rabbika arrujcaa"

 

"Man does indeed transgress, when he finds himself self sufficient, Nay...( O man) Your eventual return is toward your (Maker) Lord"

 

When the Jews came to verify the Prophethood of Muhaammad SAWS, they asked him concerning the RUUX, he was told to say to them that the Ruux is a matter whose knowledge is reserved by Allah, and of which a little is known by humans.

 

As humns we know a great deal about the phyisical body, its anatomy and science, however, the soul or the spirtit remains to be a no tresspassing domain. When that verse was revealed, it closed an age long debate in Christendom and Judaism regarding the spirit.

 

Practically speaking as a Objective oriented Muslim, if a scinece does not add to my improvement or approach with my maker, that science is wasting valuablle time that could be used for credit earning endeavors. Based on that, Ruux, shoul rest in PEACE, but let us discuss the most important topic AL NAFS.

 

 

2. NAFS.

 

Allah SWT says in the Quraan:

 

"Wa nafsin wa maa sawaahaa, fa al hamahaa fujuurahaa wa taqwaahaa"

 

" Allah is the one who fashioned, designed, completed the NAFS, and afterwards, inspired that NAFS to (choose) between good and bad"

 

The Nafs depending on its choice can be

 

a.Al Nafs al Mut ma innah ( The serene peaceful Soul)

 

b. Al Nafs al Lawaama ( always regrettinng and accuing itself or others for its demise)

 

c. Al Ammaara bil suu ( The temptation driven soul, always looking for thrills that are morally wrong.

 

Based on the above, we can exhibit one type or another in given moment, thus being either a peaceful, wicked, or self blaming soul, as for confused people, all these types can find home in a a single body at the same time, contradictory in nature, but very convincing at times, sort of a moral schizophrenic like politicians.

 

Sorry for the long write-up, that is all folks for today.

 

 

Nur

[Viking]

Nur sxb,

No reply could be too long, so please don't feel restricted on my behalf. On the other hand, I have a million questions and hope you'll find the time to answer them. If I am being a bother, just tell me outright sxb.

 

I have also read somewhere that the two (Rooh and Nafs) are in conflict. Both are said to have different aims, the Nafs aiming for the worldy while the Rooh is aiming for the the sacred.

 

You brought up the different types of Nafs and I wanted to ask you...is the Nafs something that has to be kept under control through i.e. dhikr, shukur etc because it has carnal nature? Or are its origin Nafs-ul-Mutma'inna and we are the ones corrupting it? If we let it be, what will happen to it?

 

You said that they were 'two faces of the same entity', which one of the two will be held accountable or will both be held accountable for sins committed? And lastly...what is the fourth dimension according to Islam?

[StarGazer]

I love this conversation!!!!

Took me few days to read all of it and reflect on Nur's and Sufi's responses.

 

I gotta admit, I have a facination with Sufi outlook on life. In the past centuries, you had many sufi scholars who produced great books on spirituality and the many ailments of the heart and recommended ways to combat these diseases as Allah(swt) and the Prophet(saw)have prescribed. However, I did have the same questions as Nur...as to why do we need a single guide (a sheikh) to reach a higher station? Why does it have to be exclusive to the few the sheikh has chosen? Also, is it necessary or what proof do we have from the Quran & Hadith? This is when critical thinking comes to play. Anyway I enjoyed reading the above essays.....your creativity and intelligence is always appreciated.

 

My question is: You've extensively elaborated on the describtion of Nafs and Ruux. How does Qalb(Heart) fit into the scheme of things?

 

Shukran.

[sahal]

I missed this useful thread, but i will catch up while i'll continue to keep an eye on a .....