The 4.5 is not only wrong, its a crime against humanity

[Carafaat]

Do you agree that TFG and therefor its 4.5 is an obstacle for this viable option.

[Carafaat]

Xaaji Xunjuf;758338 wrote:

^^^Bad Example the people of bari and Nugaal are one clan Family so the TFG can't divide them

Thats why I said, except for Bari and Nugaal.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Carafaat you are right Federalism and regionalism doesn't go hand in hand with the 4.5 Clan formula but as Ngonge pointed out do you see other federal state's in Somalia other than Puntland which is one Sub clan state the same with Galmudug the regionalism you are suggesting is not perceptible at the moment.

[Carafaat]

XX, Its only natural that people(from whatever clan) with a certain parameter,locality, region come together based on shared interest and come to angreement on their common interest. But I only see 2 obstacles in order for this process to take place, Al Shabaab and the TFG.

 

But there is hope on the horizon. AL Shabaab seems to be divided and military on the loosing side and the TFG's mandate is soon to be ending and donors will definely pull the plug out in August 2012.

 

This will definetly mean there is chance for Somali's to get the initiative back in own hands.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Carafaat that's not the only obstacle, Somalia was and is still in a state of civil war the traditional civil society of the people of Somalia is completely rotten. It has totally changed there is huge animosity mistrust among the Clans you need to heal those wounds first. I see the 4.5 Formula as a medicine for those wounds it will take some time but you should not interrupt the process of recovering.Clan might be everything today but not tomorrow so for Somalia to have an amiable society again we need to take baby steps.

[Carafaat]

Bro how is the 4.5 a medicine. Kimaayo waxa isku heysta oo sheeganiya 5 diffrent sub-sub clans from the same block. Tell me how the 4.5 can unite them or heal them. The problem with clans is that it doesnt stay with the block level, it goes down and deeper, and becomes much complexer. Problemkii ahaan jiray 4.5 maanta ku dhufo x20.

[Mintid Farayar]

Carafaat;758345 wrote:

and the TFG's mandate is soon to be ending and donors will definely pull the plug out in August 2012.

 

This will definetly mean there is chance for Somali's to get the initiative back in own hands.

Don't be so sure of this. There are other, more influential interests at play here as well. The AMISOM countries see their presence as a revenue & influence multiplier in the African geopolitics/Western interests. The Western donors where ready to pull the plug on the TFG during the last squabble (when Farmaajo was still PM), but Uganda threatened to pull out all of its troops and leave the ground for Al Shabaab. The donors had no choice but to rethink and continue to support the TFG sham. Uganda brokered(within the TFG factions) a continuation of the game with the resignation of Farmaajo.

 

Now Kenyan interests are directly involved within Somalia proper further complicating the picture. Somali interests are last on the back burner when it comes to what system will be implemented!

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Carafaat;758358 wrote:

Bro how is the 4.5 a medicine. Kimaayo waxa isku heysta oo sheeganiya 5 diffrent sub-sub clans from the same block. Tell me how the 4.5 can unite them or heal them. The problem with clans is that it doesnt stay with the block level, it goes down and deeper, and becomes much complexer. Problemkii ahaan jiray 4.5 maanta ku dhufo x20.

Its a medicine because there is Something the people of Somalia agree on something they don't fight over this how ever doesn't compatibly with building federal states but who said Somalia is at that stage yet?. Kismayo is claimed by various Clan it should start from grassroot level most federal states in Somalia are sub clan states azania forms the biggest challenge so far since the region is inhabited by multiple clans. But what you are trying to do is to ignore one problem and at the same time try to solve the other.

[Carafaat]

Mintid Farayar;758365 wrote:

Don't be so sure of this. There are other, more influential interests at play here as well. The AMISOM countries see their presence as a revenue & influence multiplier in the African geopolitics/Western interests. The Western donors where ready to pull the plug on the TFG during the last squabble (when Farmaajo was still PM), but Uganda threatened to pull out all of its troops and leave the ground for Al Shabaab. The donors had no choice but to rethink and continue to support the TFG sham. Uganda brokered(within the TFG factions) a continuation of the game with the resignation of Farmaajo.

 

Now Kenyan interests are directly involved within Somalia proper further complicating the picture. Somali interests are last on the back burner when it comes to what system will be implemented!

If Somali's do nothing then others for sure will implement their own systems. Therefor all Somali's should try to play a role in the future directions of their countries. Thats why I am not against these (clan)States, next step is consultation with locals and implmenting on the ground, become a factor or relevance. Create more Azania's everywhere!!!

[Carafaat]

Xaaji Xunjuf;758369 wrote:

Its a medicine because there is Something the people of Somalia agree on something they don't fight over this how ever doesn't compatibly with building federal states but who said Somalia is at that stage yet?. Kismayo is claimed by various Clan it should start from grassroot level most federal states in Somalia are sub clan states azania forms the biggest challenge so far since the region is inhabited by multiple clans. But what you are trying to do is to ignore one problem and at the same time try to solve the other.

Xaaji Xunjuf, have you heard of the balance of nature theory?

 

The balance of nature is a theory that says that ecological systems(nature) are usually in a stable equilibrium (constant balance), which is to say that a small change in some particular parameter (the size or power of a particular animal or plant population) will be corrected by some negative feedback that will bring the parameter back to its original "point of balance" with the rest of the system.

 

Just like in nature clans and the power distribution between clans will be corrected and eventually there will be balance of nature between the clans. There is no need to have a (un-natural)formula to distribute that power between the clans, unless you favour dominance of certain clans, even then it wont hond and nature will bring itself back to balance (see how small clans are dominant within Al Shabaab).

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Well if we imply the theory of the concept of balance of nature it doesn't conclude the overaching purpose to create a single functioning state which is most definitely unnatural to the majority of the people of Somalia. In a country that is lived by multiply clans and subclans the Balance of nature keeps that intact by having that famous 4.5 power sharing Formula.

 

In addition the ecological change and how the nature is constattly in flux and in effect of quite naturally out of balance the same with the Clan situation in Somalia. But the 4.5 Clan formulah keeps it in balance or tries is to keep it balance despite the challenges and changes on the ground. The Federal structure proposed by the government is also unrealistic not because the people of Somalia are being exposed to something they are unfamiliar with a clan state that belongs to you a neighboring clan state that belongs to you're neighbor. This was the case before Colonialism the only difference is you want to create a federal state that allows it's citizens also to have a national identity and some sort of people-hood and this is not the case at the moment Embrace the 4.5 carafaat its part of the nature.

[Carafaat]

Let nature takes its course and it will find balance. Let Somali's run their lands and they will find a stability. No need to impose an outdated colonial formula.

[Somalia]

It's as if you guys don't realise Somalia's first government was founded on 4.5...

[Cambuulo iyo bun]

5.0 not 4,5 get that cunsuriyaal aa tahiin

[Carafaat]

Somalia;758416 wrote:

It's as if you guys don't realise Somalia's first government was founded on 4.5...

So what, Somali goverments till now have been a succesfull thanks to the 4.5?