Azaaniya leader gandi visits Ethiopia for talks

[Valenteenah.]

Abtigiis,

 

What I have been reading attests to your opinion, however I have heard from long term friends of his a different view of his character. These friends are pre-Azania though, and we all know how the politics muck submerges lofty ideals.

 

On another point, surely he's too smart to take the Iley path?

[xiinfaniin]

Valenteenah.;755871 wrote:

Perhaps he thought you were refering to the burning debris called Somalia, as a stable nation.

 

This professor is an enigma. To me at least.

If one reads what I wrote in the paragraph Abtigiis was responding it, one would think I was clear with which state I was referring to. But with Abtigiis, one expects anything from him.

[Abtigiis]

Barwaaqooy,

 

Inkastoo anigu dadka soomalidu amaanto aan ka shakiyo, hadana i have seen some learned guys who spoke good of him. I only started to wonder if he really is what they say after looking at the length he can go to get a perch or post. Azania came after the TFG bid failed. I don't think anybody can be an Iley but I believe Gandhi can do Ethiopias bidding if he finds it useful in his war against Sharif. I would have thought a full professor would see his rivarly to Sharif and TFG as a mild sibling infighting compared to the lurking threat of Ethiopia's destablisation of Somalia. I don't see that. I can tell you all my clan folks will be celebrating his journey to Addis in the belief that it will clear the last hurdle for the creation of the coveted tribal homeland of Azania. You see, although Xinn thinks I am for Azania, there is nothing I hate more than Azania. Sorry, except Alshabab. I don't like Gandhi because the message I hear from Tolka is that he is a champion of the tolka cause. If one can't transcend tolka aspirations, what is the point of calling him a professor? Gandhi must talk to the TFG, talk to UDUB land and other clan entities in Jubboyinka, use the external support he is getting to assist the TFG project of reclaiming statehood. He should embrace the bigger national interest. If he can't do that, he is another Barre Hiiraale. A darker one and with degrees, but nonetheless a Hiiraale.

 

Xinn, I aplogize. It was an oversight on my part. I thought you are talking about Somalia. I am not you, I am very much fallible.

[xiinfaniin]

Abtigiis;755897 wrote:

Barwaaqooy,

 

Inkastoo anigu dadka soomalidu amaanto aan ka shakiyo, hadana i have seen some learned guys who spoke good of him. I only started to wonder if he really is what they say after looking at the length he can go to get a perch or post. Azania came after the TFG bid failed. I don't think anybody can be an Iley but I believe Gandhi can do Ethiopias bidding if he finds it useful in his war against Sharif. I would have thought a full professor would see his rivarly to Sharif and TFG as a mild sibling infighting compared to the lurking threat of Ethiopia's destablisation of Somalia. I don't see that. I can tell you all my clan folks will be celebrating his journey to Addis in the belief that it will clear the last hurdle for the creation of the coveted tribal homeland of Azania. You see, although Xinn thinks I am for Azania, there is nothing I hate more than Azania. Sorry, except Alshabab. I don't like Gandhi because the message I hear from Tolka is that he is a champion of the tolka cause. If one can't transcend tolka aspirations, what is the point of calling him a professor? Gandhi must talk to the TFG, talk to UDUB land and other clan entities in Jubboyinka, use the external support he is getting to assist the TFG project of reclaiming statehood. He should embrace the bigger national interest. If he can't do that, he is another Barre Hiiraale. A darker one and with degrees, but nonetheless a Hiiraale.

 

Xinn, I aplogize. It was an oversight on my part. I thought you are talking about Somalia. I am not you, I am very much fallible.

 

^^I knew you would reject this Azania thing the minute you realize how unfeasible it is given the clan complexity that surround it and the shifting loyalty that is inherent in it. By logical extension, you should also reject Kenya's effort to create a buffer zone by attempting to install friendly militia (Gandhi's Azania army),in that area. Such half measures will only bolster Alshabaab and discredit the weak TFG.

[Valenteenah.]

Abtigiis;755897 wrote:

If one can't transcend tolka aspirations, what is the point of calling him a professor? Gandhi must talk to the TFG, talk to UDUB land and other clan entities in Jubboyinka, use the external support he is getting to assist the TFG project of reclaiming statehood. He should embrace the bigger national interest. If he can't do that, he is another Barre Hiiraale. A darker one and with degrees, but nonetheless a Hiiraale.

Talking of lofty ideals, yours are sky high, my dear. I admire that, but in today's Somalia, it is a very different world. Not to echo NG, but I'm beginning to think it really is every man for his clan.

[A_Khadar]

The Zack;755819 wrote:

Somalinimada ma dad gooni ah bey la dhalatay, imisaanu laheyn war ka jooga. Baruuro mar hore bey qudhmeen, kuwii kalana eegga bey galaafteen.

Zak, I can get your point here. I have heard similar arguments many times yet still someone has to keep the somalinimo..

[Abtigiis]

I didn't embrace Azania a year ago, I didn't embrace it last week, and I will never embrace it in the future. It falls short of the ethical benchmarks I set for myself. I, however, attacked and derided those who I thought were barking like mad dogs about an impending clan entity when a bigger monster was in the room. I opposed Azania to the extent many kins don't greet me, including close sisters married to key men of Azania. They say 'kii inyar oo lacag ah helaaba, tol ma aqaan iyo waxaasu ku meeraystaa'. They say i will come back to them the day I lose my earnings and need them - a fate I am not prepared to put myself in. Like the rest of the somalis, I will not want to see injustice against my own clan, but I will not fight for their supermacy and hegemony. I will not fight for a homeland in Somalia, when they can have all of it as their home if proper statehood and stability returns. I believe Gandhi must do the TFG bidding. Sharif was wrong in his knee-jerk reaction which contributed to the heightining clan polarisation. I believe Gandhi has a unique opportunity to earn eternal greatness. To earn that greatness, he must reject the idea of a homeland for his clan. He must take tough decisions. He must go to Mogadishu and say here I am Mr. president, what should we do in the Jubbas? Sharif is useless, but it is only when we respect order and hierarchy that we can get out of the nomadic egalitarian mindset in our politics.

 

Zack,

 

You cannot advocate for clanism on the basis that others have become clannish. Azania project must give way to a representative regional adminstration accountable to the TFG. Othewise, why were we condemning Somaliland and Puntland? Was it out of envy? Was it out of bitterness?

[Jacpher]

Ghandi is just another lapdog answering the call of his master.

[The Zack]

Abtigiis and Khadar, agreed. I am just saying Somalinimo can only survive if all or at least the majority are for it.

[xiinfaniin]

Waryaa Abtigiis, dhegta xun fur waryaa

 

As far as I know those of us who opposed Azania at the beginning did so for the fact that it was a foreign arm to create a buffer zone. It was conceived in the halls of Kenyan intelligence community with the help of Gandi. It was and still is a non existent entity on the ground. If we were operating out of clannish interest, logic would've dictated us to support Azania. For from what I heard from uncles, it satisfies the clan interest both in its regional representation composition and in the proposed administrative entitlement of the city of Kismayo.

 

The thing is based on our estimate, If the goal is to defeat alshabaab, this is not how to do it.

 

I note the fact that you finally bought in the symbolic significance of the TFG. Any attempt to weaken TFG, as the Kenyan invasion clearly does, will ultimately strengthen alshabaab.

[Carafaat]

A rebuffle of the arguments used against Azania

 

-Aznia was created in Kenya. Wanst the TFG created in Kenya?

 

-Clan project created by Ghaandi. Ghaandi's sub-clans dont even live in The Jubba's.

And the elders of more then 20 diffrent clans who are from Jubba's have supported the project after holdong months o

Od dialogue.

 

-Azania en Ghaandi's only serve Kenya's interest. Abdullahi Yusuf and TFG were also serving Ethiopia's interest, but they

Failed to even get hold on Moqdishu. If the TFG did its job and brought peace and governance, Somali's wouldnt even mind if it also serves some foreign interest(Uganda, Ethiopia, Kenya, USA, etc. ).

 

-Azania will cooperate with Ethiopia ans will also handover ONLF fighters to Ethopia. So far it hasnt. And even if it did, its clearly the cost for maintaining good and peacefull relations with Ethiopia. Something which is in the interest of Somalia at the moment.

 

-Ghandi lost his job in the TFG and with Azania hopes to get in power. As a Minister of Defense Ghaandi refused to bring the trained Somali soldiers in Kenya to the chaotic Muqdishu who's 20.000 were barely fighting and He thouht the Jubba's needed those soldiers. Now those soldiers are fighting in the Jubba's anyway. So the tactical assement he was fired for, is now implemented anyway.

 

-He brought Kenya's soldiers to Somalia. Wasnt Yeey riding on a Ethiopian tank and Sheick Shariid in a Ugandese tank.

 

-He has no mandate from the TFG. Who gave the TFG the mandate? A room full of self appointed Somali's in a Kenyan Hotel.

Well Ghandi has also mandate from some Somali delegates gathered in a Kenyan Hotel.

 

-Ghandi's is only supported by the O-clan. Well the O-minister in the TFG who hails from Jiubba region who opposed Azania is supported by no one not even the O-people. And probably he has been fired by now or changes during one of the many re shuffles

 

The fact that most you opposed it, is a clear sign it even might work. As all else you guys have suppoirted ended in failures.

[Som@li]

This was expected, waa cadadoodii!!

[Che -Guevara]

During my trip, I have met some of Jabhad boys and many were not too keen on this fella,

 

Val.....I wish it was actually everyman for his clan, atleast the clan would have benefited in some way. Nobody benefits but the man they blindly support.

 

Abdullahi ditched Puntland the moment it was no longer of use to him, the late Aidid put his tribe through hell, and the list goes on.

[Jacpher]

^The two go hand in hand. You can't take Somali politics out of the clan, and the clan out of the politics.

 

I don't understand how one can see the Kenyans dropping bombs on Somali civilians on land and sea any different than when the Ethiopians were doing it. The only different is one had Ethiopian generals leading the way, the other, a Somali Kenyans doing the dirty work.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Aah, another sycophant in the making, a fine, learned as that. Pleasing, reassuring the master in Addis.

 

The only question is, will he be made to sit the 'infamous' chair?

 

This chair:

 

 

Shariif Sh. Axmed

 

 

Shariif Xasan

 

 

Geedi

 

 

Nuur Cadde

 

 

Riyaale

 

 

Faroole

 

 

Aaden Madoobe

 

 

Siilaanyo