Agnostic Cara and Muslim Nur, A Dialogue

[Nur]

JB

 

You write:

 

Sheikh Nur, the position of the Skeptic IS the default position, while yours is the extraordinary position of absolutely possitively certain knowledge.

 

You see B politely questions the truthfullness of A´s claim, B lacks claim, so A can´t question B´s position. simple.

 

 

Wron argument buddy, you are really missing the point JB, I have invited Cara to the dialogue, between the two of us, a believer and a non believer. Take Allah out of the argument for now, since she does not believe in Allah, and assume the Quraan as my argument to prove Allah's existence, where is the problem JB? why cant you accept? are you afraid you cant answer?

 

 

The late Shah of Iran once invited Khomeini for a meeting after the revolt aginst his rule reached a serious level. Khomeini sat down and the Shah proposed the terms of discussion:

 

Shah: I would like to discuss how to make our country peaceful and stable with you today. I am ready to discuss everything, and you can talk about everything, except Religion.

 

Khomeini: Quietely leaves the room.

 

 

You see JB, the fallacy in your logic is that you are equating the wrong entities. Contrary to your analogy, I am not starting from the point" ALLAH EXISTS " which she clearly does not believe, but I was going to start with logical premises in the Quraan that are addressing agnostics like Cara and Atheists like you to show that Allah exists, so the usage of Quraans proof is equivalent to the Agostic arguments that deny Allah's exsistence, both arguments deserve to be heard.

 

 

Nur

[Cara.]

Hello Nur,

 

Sorry for the delay. You misunderstood my point about using the Qur'an to argue for your beliefs. I wasn't prohibiting you from quoting from the Qur'an, merely pointing out that the authorship and significance of the Qur'an is part of what we are trying to clarify. By all means post a couple of fire and brimstone verses, my response will generally be "so what?", since you might as well be quoting from The Joy of Cooking.

 

Originally posted by Nur:

1. How much knowledge do you have about Islam in general? from a scale of 1 to 5, where 5 is the highest?

This is an odd question. Where do you see yourself on this scale? Where do you see the average Muslim? For the sake of discussion, assume I know enough about Islam to identify the key players, important historical incidents, key dogma, the contents of the Qur'an and Hadith, Muslim apologia, and so forth. I don't anticipate startling facts about Islamic history that will blow me away.

 

To be honest I find the rest of your questions irrelevant. My knowledge or history is not the topic of debate here. Your "evidence" will not hinge on what religion I was raised in or how I learned about religions. If I'm ignorant of a particular subject matter it will become apparent within the debate itself, and that will be a point in your favor since I will be shown up for debating matters I have little knowledge of. Stop dawdling.

 

By the way, I gather I'm being made an example of. But why don't we admit why this is? Some of your sermons have met with a chilly reception lately (the let's-circumcise-girls-to-prevent-abortions kind), and you want to lay the blame on a secret agnostic cabal that has drawn the congregation away. Kind of insulting to said congregation, but what do I know? I can hardly muster the will to live, being so empty of purpose and all.

[Nur]

Cara

 

You write:

 

Since you might as well be quoting from The Joy of Cooking.

 

You beat me to it, My kitchen or yours? please follow the link below for the joy of Cooking, from eNuri Culinary Corps..

 

http://www.somaliaonline.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000641#000003

 

 

Now that we have the Quraan question out of the way, isnhAllah, our dialogue will start, and if I may kindly ask you Cara, please stay focused on this topic, delving back on past topics on womens section and how my readership is unhappy are sidetracking the core issue here.

 

 

You write;

 

1. The Prophecy

 

If I understood the story right, the Persians defeated the Romans, the early Muslims were demoralized, but Muhammad told them in this verse that soon the Romans would be victorious, which they eventually were. As proof for the existence of god, I would say this is not particularly convincing. This prophecy would be truly remarkable if it was one of many or if it had been more specific. In a book of 6000+ verses, getting one or two predictions right is no miracle.

 

 

Answer:

 

No you didnt, the purpose of the first part of Surah Romans in Quran was not intended as a direct proof of the Existence of Allah; rather, it was a first step to show Muhammad’s prophethood, which is necessary condition to validate the Quraan he delivered to us from Allah SWT. A prophet in Arabic, means some one who predicts the future with accuracy, the accuracy of the incidents therefore by itself is not the proof of His prophethood, but the culmination of many other incidents, teachings and events in his lifetime that together made Muhammad a phenomenon not many could have resisted are the proofs.

 

In short 23 years, his message fundamentally challenged all others, religious, social, political and even military powers that existed, his followers decisively winning on all fronts, establishing a nation that spanned the globe risen from the lowly barren desert, from tribal division to a national unity, from moral decadence, to the height of moral justice, a beacon of light that connected the Eastern wisdom to the western innovation, a nation that was (Wasatan) (Middle, moderate, media) in every aspect.

 

Now, keeping in mind the fact that Muhammad SAWS had no access to any literature to read about the history or geography of the predictions in this Surah, the interssting part is with such accuracy, where did the info come to him from? let us visit the verses of the Surah Romans as they:

 

1. Narrate of the place as The Dead Sea, Palestine.

2. Narrate The elevation of the place to be ( Adnal Ard) , meaning (Lowest Point on Earth ) which is proven to be 402 meters below sea level.

3. The Romans would win final decisive battle

4. The Time Span would be within Ten years ( Bidca siniin)

5. Credit to the victory belongs to Allah not to Muhammad.

 

 

The point here is not to count prediction or two to be correct, rather, its to show that Muhammad SAWS who was an illiterate could not possibly have known all of that without a superior source of knwoledge, as to be so specific to mention that the location of the battle, the Dead Sea to be the lowest point on earth which is a scientific fact.

 

As you can see Cara, its more than two predictions in one Surah, actually all we have explored so far are only few verses of the Romans Chapter, not the whole chapter which was my main intention, not Two correct predictions in the whole Quraan as you claim, because we have not yet visited the entirr 6000+ verses in the Quraan, we shall visit them in time for your examination, so be patient, dont get ahead of your self, my intenton in this debate is not to win an argument, but to win a place in paradise by helping you see what is so obvious while you are reluctant to even consider (That is me again, Naive Nur)

 

 

3. Rhetorical Question

 

About The Motivation of Muhammad SAWS:

 

None of the people you have mentioned fall in the category of personalities that have profoundly influenced humanity throughout history like Prophet Muhammad SAWS did, none in terms of vision of a wholesome outlook of life, the unstoppable force that marched from the desert by illitrate Bedouins to create one of the most illustrious world civilizations, that brought the concept of justice, fraternity and equality to Europe, Science and Medicine, I am amazed why you excluded Moses and Jesus from the list , they are the only men in league with Muhammad SAWS, because each one of these great Prophets was driven by a calling of Allah SWT, similar to that of Muhammad, and each one has convincingly led his people to new levels of ethics aided by stunning credentials from Allah known as miracles.

 

For you to put Muhammad with David Koresh, or Ahmed Qadyan, is a fallacy of a scale, showing again what I was guessing when I asked about your exposure to religions, a fundamental deficiency of History of monotheist Religions. Your unbalanced analogy of Prophet Muhammad SAWS to US based cult leaders was neither fair, nor intellectually acceptable, the only credible exception to the your line-up cult leaders is your selection of Buddha, but again, the analogy fails since Muhammad is not worshipped, nor was he a monk, Mohammed was a Statesman, spiritual teacher, husband, father, peacemaker, fighter and a friend.

 

Now, what drives prophets like Muhammad, Moses and Jesus is different than what drives people like Koresh and yourself when it comes to belief and action. Moses who grew up in the Palace of Pharoah, was chosen by Allah SWT to go the Pharoah to free the oppressed chidren of prophet Jacob, known as Israelites, that story is the most touching humanely narrated by all three monothesitis faiths, Moses, did not just wake up one day to make freedom of Jews as his mission, he was callled by Allah SWT. He was given miracles, that made Pharaoh's magicians change their minds from seeking reward if they win the contest against Moses, and after witnessing Moses's miracle, fell down in prostration to Allah declaring that they are ready to die for their faith. What made these magicians change their minds? they knew what magic was, and Moses overpowered them with a Devine miracle.

 

 

The Quraan Reads:

 

1. Ta­Sin­Mim [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings]

 

2. These are Verses of the manifest Book (that makes clear truth from falsehood, good from evil, etc.).

 

3. We recite to you some of the news of Musa (Moses) and Fir'aun (Pharaoh) in truth, for a people who believe (those who believe in this Qur'an, and in the Oneness of Allah).

 

4. Verily, Fir'aun (Pharaoh) exalted himself in the land and made its people sects, weakening (oppressing) a group (i.e. Children of Israel) among them, killing their sons, and letting their females live. Verily, he was of the Mufsidun (i.e. those who commit great sins and crimes, oppressors, tyrants, etc.).

 

5. And We wished to do a favour to those who were weak (and oppressed) in the land, and to make them rulers and to make them the inheritors,

 

6. And to establish them in the land, and We let Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and Haman and their hosts receive from them that which they feared.

 

7. And We inspired the mother of Musa (Moses), (saying): "Suckle him [Musa (Moses)], but when you fear for him, then cast him into the river and fear not, nor grieve. Verily! We shall bring him back to you, and shall make him one of (Our) Messengers."

 

8. Then the household of Fir'aun (Pharaoh) picked him up, that he might become for them an enemy and a (cause of) grief. Verily! Fir'aun (Pharaoh), Haman and their hosts were sinners.

 

9. And the wife of Fir'aun (Pharaoh) said: "A comfort of the eye for me and for you. Kill him not, perhaps he may be of benefit to us, or we may adopt him as a son." And they perceive not (the result of that).

 

10. And the heart of the mother of Musa (Moses) became empty [from every thought, except the thought of Musa (Moses)]. She was very near to disclose his (case, i.e. the child is her son), had We not strengthened her heart (with Faith), so that she might remain as one of the believers.

 

11. And she said to his [Musa's (Moses)] sister: "Follow him." So she (his sister) watched him from a far place secretly, while they perceived not.

 

12. And We had already forbidden (other) foster suckling mothers for him, until she (his sister came up and) said: "Shall I direct you to a household who will rear him for you, and sincerely they will look after him in a good manner?"

 

13. So did We restore him to his mother, that she might be delighted, and that she might not grieve, and that she might know that the Promise of Allah is true. But most of them know not.

 

14. And when he attained his full strength, and was perfect (in manhood), We bestowed on him Hukman (Prophethood, right judgement of the affairs) and religious knowledge [of the religion of his forefathers i.e. Islamic Monotheism]. And thus do We reward the Muhsinun (i.e. good doers - see the footnote of V.9:120).

 

15. And he entered the city at a time of unawareness of its people, and he found there two men fighting, - one of his party (his religion - from the Children of Israel), and the other of his foes. The man of his (own) party asked him for help against his foe, so Musa (Moses) struck him with his fist and killed him. He said: "This is of Shaitan's (Satan) doing, verily, he is a plain misleading enemy."

 

16. He said: "My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me." Then He forgave him. Verily, He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful.

 

17. He said: "My Lord! For that with which You have favoured me, I will never more be a helper for the Mujrimun (criminals, disobedient to Allah, polytheists, sinners, etc.)!"

 

18. So he became afraid, looking about in the city (waiting as to what will be the result of his crime of killing), when behold, the man who had sought his help the day before, called for his help (again). Musa (Moses) said to him: "Verily, you are a plain misleader!"

 

19. hen when he decided to seize the man who was an enemy to both of them, the man said: "O Musa (Moses)! Is it your intention to kill me as you killed a man yesterday? Your aim is nothing but to become a tyrant in the land, and not to be one of those who do right."

 

20. And there came a man running, from the farthest end of the city. He said: "O Musa (Moses)! Verily, the chiefs are taking counsel together about you, to kill you, so escape.Truly, I am to you of those who give sincere advice."

Come visit Palestine and baby Jesus, speaking in the cradle as desribed in Quraan. Virgin Mary,

 

21. So he escaped from there, looking about in a state of fear. He said: "My Lord! Save me from the people who are Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers)!"

 

22. And when he went towards (the land of) Madyan (Midian) he said: "It may be that my Lord guides me to the Right Way."

 

23. And when he arrived at the water of Madyan (Midian) he found there a group of men watering (their flocks), and besides them he found two women who were keeping back (their flocks). He said: "What is the matter with you?" They said: "We cannot water (our flocks) until the shepherds take (their flocks). And our father is a very old man."

 

24. So he watered (their flocks) for them, then he turned back to shade, and said: "My Lord! Truly, I am in need of whatever good that You bestow on me!"

 

25. Then there came to him one of the two women, walking shyly. She said: "Verily, my father calls you that he may reward you for having watered (our flocks) for us." So when he came to him and narrated the story, he said: "Fear you not. You have escaped from the people who are Zalimun (polytheists, disbelievers, and wrong-doers)."

 

26. And said one of them (the two women): "O my father! Hire him! Verily, the best of men for you to hire is the strong, the trustworthy."

 

27. He said: "I intend to wed one of these two daughters of mine to you, on condition that you serve me for eight years, but if you complete ten years, it will be (a favour) from you. But I intend not to place you under a difficulty. If Allah will, you will find me one of the righteous."

 

28. He [Musa (Moses)] said: "That (is settled) between me and you whichever of the two terms I fulfill, there will be no injustice to me, and Allah is Surety over what we say."

 

29. Then, when Musa (Moses) had fulfilled the term, and was travelling with his family, he saw a fire in the direction of Tur (Mount). He said to his family: "Wait, I have seen a fire; perhaps I may bring to you from there some information, or a burning fire-brand that you may warm yourselves."

 

30. So when he reached it (the fire), he was called from the right side of the valley, in the blessed place from the tree: "O Musa (Moses)! Verily! I am Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)!

 

31. "And throw your stick!" But when he saw it moving as if it were a snake, he turned in flight, and looked not back. (It was said): "O Musa (Moses)! Draw near, and fear not. Verily, you are of those who are secure.

 

32. "Put your hand in your bosom, it will come forth white without a disease, and draw your hand close to your side to be free from fear (that which you suffered from the snake, and also by that your hand will return to its original state). these are two Burhan (signs, miracles, evidences, proofs) from your Lord to Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and his chiefs. Verily, they are the people who are Fasiqun (rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

 

33. He said: "My Lord! I have killed a man among them, and I fear that they will kill me.

 

34."And my brother Harun (Aaron) he is more eloquent in speech than me so send him with me as a helper to confirm me. Verily! I fear that they will belie me."

 

35. Allah said: "We will strengthen your arm through your brother, and give you both power, so they shall not be able to harm you, with Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), you two as well as those who follow you will be the victors."

 

36. Then when Musa (Moses) came to them with Our Clear Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they said: "This is nothing but invented magic. Never did we hear of this among our fathers of old."

 

37. Musa (Moses) said: "My Lord knows best him who came with guidance from Him, and whose will be the happy end in the Hereafter. Verily, the Zalimun (wrong-doers, polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) will not be successful."

 

38. Fir'aun (Pharaoh) said: "O chiefs! I know not that you have an ilah (a god) other than me, so kindle for me (a fire), O Haman, to bake (bricks out of) clay, and set up for me a Sarhan (a lofty tower, or palace, etc.) in order that I may look at (or look for) the Ilah (God) of Musa (Moses); and verily, I think that he [Musa (Moses)] is one of the liars."

 

39. And he and his hosts were arrogant in the land, without right, and they thought that they would never return to Us.

 

40. So We seized him and his hosts, and We threw them all into the sea (and drowned them). So behold (O Muhammad ) what was the end of the Zalimun [wrong-doers, polytheists and those who disbelieved in the Oneness of their Lord (Allah), or rejected the advice of His Messenger Musa (Moses)].

 

41. And We made them leaders inviting to the Fire, and on the Day of Resurrection, they will not be helped.

 

42. And We made a curse to follow them in this world, and on the Day of Resurrection, they will be among Al-Maqbuhun (those who are prevented to receive Allah's Mercy or any good, despised or destroyed, etc.).

 

43. And indeed We gave Musa (Moses), after We had destroyed the generations of old, the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah)] as an enlightenment for mankind, and a guidance and a mercy, that they might remember (or receive admonition).

 

44. And you (O Muhammad ) were not on the western side (of the Mount), when We made clear to Musa (Moses) the commandment, and you were not among those present.

 

45. But We created generations [after generations i.e. after Musa (Moses)], and long were the ages that passed over them. And you (O Muhammad ) were not a dweller among the people of Madyan (Midian), reciting Our Verses to them. But it is We Who kept sending (Messengers).

 

46. And you (O Muhammad ) were not at the side of the Tur (Mount) when We did call, [it is said that Allah called the followers of Muhammad , and they answered His Call, or that Allah called Musa (Moses)]. But (you are sent) as a mercy from your Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before you, in order that they may remember or receive admonition. [Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol. 20, Page 81].

 

 

Cara: Which of the signs of your Lord do you deny?

 

 

Nur

[Johnny B]

Sheikh Nur,In the begining when you said :

"As for my proofs, since I am the one who made the claim that there is Allah, here are they, let us discuss their validity, in a result oriented way:"

I thought you´d some sincere and concrete proofs to share, boy, am i disappointed !!

 

Now when you say :

"Wron argument buddy, you are really missing the point JB, I have invited Cara to the dialogue, between the two of us, a believer and a non believer. Take Allah out of the argument for now, since she does not believe in Allah, and assume the Quraan as my argument to prove Allah's existence, where is the problem JB? why cant you accept? are you afraid you cant answer?"

and try to hang on to using the Quran( which you claim to be the words of your Allah ) as part of your proof for the existance of your Allah and thus portray it as crucial part of a solid proof that is feared and avoided by Agnostic/Atheistic people, you seem to want to keep me in this dead thread by deliberately beeing intellectually dishonest.

Sincerity and honesty are crucial ingrediences for having such a serious dialogue, and you seem to lack that,for that reason this thread died long before it came to life.

 

Nur, what would the point of contention of an Angostic/Atheistic person be if you take the claim of Allah´s existance out of the picture?

How can you be presenting a proof for validation and evaluation regarding your Allah´s existance when you insist using the supposed words of the very Deity whose existance is in question?

better yet , what would you claim of Agnostic/Atheistic people conducting an empty life mean if your Allah was out of the argument?

 

Those whose concrete existance can be proven, can supposedly be argued to have said something.

 

The problem with your position is crystal clear to anybody with a sincere hope to venture a responsible opinion .

 

Nur, it only takes one failure of intellectual integrity to corrupt one's thinking and come to wrong conclusions.

 

If we fail our intellectual integrity and assume a single wrong notion to be true, example " Bishitta is a tall person " ,then arguing that she is 3cm taller or 3cm shorter than the everage Model is a sidekick as long as Bishitta is actually not a tall person, thus my Allah says so is a sidekick as long as you haven´t concretely proved the existance of your Allah as you promised.

 

Now having said that , you may use the Quran as much as you please , any attemp by the quran that states the existance of your Allah will be self-defeating, and all you´ll be saying will be " My Allah exists becouse My Allah says so ".

 

And that wraps it for me.

[Nur]

JB

 

You ask two logically contradicting questions, it is OK to be logically challenged, but help is on the way saaxib, I know what you are going through, a period of aimlessness and a void you dont know how to fill except to argue to spread ignorance when people are thirsty for knowledge.

 

First question;

 

Nur, what would the point of contention of an Angostic/Atheistic person be if you take the claim of Allah´s existance out of the picture?

 

Answer:

 

Just like when a research physicist assumes that a body has no mass, just to prove at the end that it has mass, as an intermediate step in simplifying a rather complex problem.

 

Second Question

 

How can you be presenting a proof for validation and evaluation regarding your Allah´s existance when you insist using the supposed words of the very Deity whose existance is in question?

 

 

Answer:

 

Because His words are more convincing to reasonable people, best describe Him and are easiest to comprehend to the unaided mind.

 

 

Nur

[Johnny B]

Originally posted by Nur:

JB

You ask two logically contradicting questions, it is OK to be logically challenged, but help is on the way saaxib, I know what you are going through, a period of aimlessness and a void you dont know how to fill except to argue to spread ignorance when people are thirsty for knowledge.

[Kashafa]

^^ As expected, you tuck tail and run, boyo. Once shook, always shook. Good JB's last stand came down to three bouncing clowns ? Yaa Khasaara

 

Do yourself a favour and debate if it's intellectual confusion(Who am I, Why am I here, Am I man or a woman) that's causing your weak attempts to justify your atheism. Better luck next time, or you could scroll a few threads down and visit Nurtel Opticians, I hear they have a very good Opthamologist who has done amazing work with patients from Somalinet.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Kashafa:

^^ As expected, you tuck tail and run, boyo. Once shook, always shook. Good JB's last stand came down to three bouncing clowns ? Yaa Khasaara

 

Oh pleeze! Brother Nur's last rebuttal fully deserves JB's ridicule. I mean look how he goes on unmitigated tangent about JB's logical shortcomings, help is coming to him, how JB is presently living in aimless period of his life... how condescending, impudent, belittling... all of which has nothing to do with the ensuing discussion and out of sync with etiquette of good spirited debate/discussion. Golden rule of constructive, positive debates is NEVER personalise. One of the ways to tell if one party is unable to defend his/her position is to note wether he/she personalises the debate/discussion. I must admit I was caught completely off guard by Sheikh Nur's unexpected steering of this good spirited discussion into JB's character study. 'Cause he is one of the few people on this site who are capable of engaging in constructive debates. We all know how there is great dearth of that approach by many members of this site. I hope it doesn't bespeak of his inability to defend theism against atheism.

 

 

Do yourself a favour and debate if it's intellectual confusion(Who am I, Why am I here, Am I man or a woman) that's causing your weak attempts to justify your atheism.

 

 

Why would an atheist JB need to defend his lack of believe? His position is as the negative claimant, while the theist position (defended by Nur) is as the positive claimant. Therefore, the burden of proof is on the positive claimant. ALWAYS! JB doesn't have to prove jack shidh regarding his lack of faith. It would be the height of logical absurdity to ask a person claiming the nonexistance of something to prove it. How do you prove or justify what you genuinly believe doesn't exist? If I don't believe in the existance of unicorns, how do I prove that? Search every nook and cranny? It's simply impossible to prove a negative!

 

The burden of proof is on the positive claimant. In this case, Nur. He is the one positing the existance of Allah, he should be able to convince JB by either presenting to him cogent expostulation or some verifiable facts. Quoting from the Quran to a nonbeliever doesn't suffice. It should be obvious as water being wet! Not only is it a recipe for circular reasoning (GM is the best car maker because GM said so) but it undercuts the arguement the existance of Allah is independently, and on the personal level, verifiable fact.

 

 

At any case, let them duke it out.

[S.O.S]

JB writes:

Quoting from the Quran to a nonbeliever doesn't suffice

Ok JB,

 

Why not?

 

Is that because you believe that the Qur'an is not from Allah (i.e. Allah doesn't exist; therefore the Qur'an is not from Allah)?

 

If it's not from Allah, then where does the Qur'an come from?

 

What if the Qur'an is not written and cannot be written by any human being?

 

Sh. Nur's quotation from the Qur'an is to prove its divine qualities , and if he succeeds (which Allah willing, he will) he has proven, since the Qur'an cannot be written by man, the existence of a deity external to human limits of time and space.

 

You see JB, you cannot just dismiss the Qur'an; prove, if you dare, it's authorship by man, and you've proven the non-existence of Allah. So in fact, the challenge of the Qur'an is clear; not "self-defeating" as you said, but self-proving , and in the meantime the Qur'an is the prove of Allah for it's sent by Allah, which is prove enough for His existence!

 

My advice to you is, be silent if you can't take up that challenge!

[Nur]

Socod Badane

 

You write:

 

How JB is presently living in aimless period of his life... how condescending, impudent, belittling... all of which has nothing to do with the ensuing discussion and out of sync with etiquette of good spirited debate/discussion

 

 

You tell me the aim of an athiest in this life, or yours for that matter, and I will take that statement back. If an aim in this life has nothing to do with this topic, then you better read the topic again,this topic is about a vision of hope and faith that translates itself into benevolence, in contrast with a vision of doubt and confusion and denial of a purpose in life.

 

You compare my statement of aimlesseness about his arguments to his vulgar statement about my views as Sadistic, pretty heavy stuff dont you agree?

 

 

Nur

[Castro]

I have a feeling (don't know why) this "dialogue" is not going too well. Perhaps it's time to call it a day. Everyone?

[xiinfaniin]

^There are some spoilers in it. That much is true. My Shiekh is nevertheless doing a fine job to engage Cara. Let the debate continue, i say.

 

Where's Cara?

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Castro:

I have a feeling (don't know why) this "dialogue" is not going too well. Perhaps it's time to call it a day. Everyone?

I had a feeling that this great unabashed liberal would one day unveil himself before everyone!

 

Hello, my freind, long time no exchange... How is life afterall?

[Castro]

^ Life is good atheer. Good to see you around here. We miss your conservative, right-wing views.

 

Xiinow, while the dialogue may be ongoing, I get the impression that the messages are being dropped. In networking lingo this is called using the UDP protocol (with no guarantee of delivery). What we need in these types of discussions is TCP communications were the flow-control is critical. Too many dropped packets in this discussion atheer and with that come flared tempers. Hardly the desired outcome, would you not agree?

[Alle-ubaahne]

Originally posted by Castro:

^ Life is good atheer. Good to see you around here. We miss your conservative, right-wing views.

 

Saaxiib, likewise and thanx, but my departure was in part because of those despicable girls who ruined the whole atmosphere with intimidations and subjugations solely on my radioactive activities in the site.

 

Hopefully, I will emerge as they perish from the grip of Moderatorships. But othert than that, live continues and the quest of conservatism engages another front.